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New dev blog: Starbase happy fun time

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#81 - 2011-11-07 16:09:42 UTC
I agree with cynonet two. The easiest solution is just going from 4 blocks to 40: it is trivial to add a zero to whatever math you were doing. More to the point, with blocks, you don't need to do math: you just shift-drag to the bay and fill the whole thing up, then note how many you stuck in if you need to do that. And it doesn't change any spreadsheeting to use 40 blocks instead of 4.

40 allows you to handle 10% reductions gracefully. If you went to 400 you could do 1%.

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DeadNite
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#82 - 2011-11-07 16:09:49 UTC
Quote:
The one downside of this big-blocks approach is that it's impossible to give faction towers a fuel consumption bonus any more (you can't consume 2/3 of a block).


Using the same example: You could however increase the cycle time effectively giving a 33% increase. Its now 80 seconds for 4 blocks instead of 60 seconds for 4 blocks. You could also reduce the blocks required per cycle on faction towers if you do not want to play with cycle times. Either way some math is required, but not a spreadsheet of information for both tower types and what is currently online.

Not that your presented change is any less awesome, just curious to why you decided to completely remove the fuel consumption benefit. While the increased fuel bay is definitely a huge plus, sometimes it is about getting the fuel to the POS.
Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2011-11-07 16:10:46 UTC
ShadowandLight wrote:
any thoughts in adding a way to "stack" or queue anchoring and onlining of pos modules? This would be a big time saver for the pilots involved on the same lines as changing pos fuel over to blocks.



Pretty please!

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CynoNet Two
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#84 - 2011-11-07 16:10:52 UTC
CynoNet Two wrote:
"We stuck with small numbers of blocks and no fuel use bonus on faction towers because dealing with small numbers of blocks makes starbases in general easier to use"

You're replacing eight fuel types with one, this new system is inherently simpler. I don't think using smaller numbers is worth the cost of fuel granularity. EVE players deal with numbers bigger than two digits all the time, it is a little patronising to implement changes for this reason.

Change the BPO to yield 50 or 100 fuel blocks, then adjust block volume and fuel use accordingly. This will allow for faction towers to get their usage bonuses. It would also accomodate the soverignty fuel bonus you seem to have forgotten about / glossed over.


Also when you do all these sensible things, how about automatically converting fuel inside towers do we don't need to **** about with this 'half and half' fueling? This is pretty trivial to do and saves all the inevitable bugs from dual-fuel use.
Largo Coronet
Perkone
Caldari State
#85 - 2011-11-07 16:10:54 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

As it stands currently, you'll get the bonus on large towers but nothing on medium/small due to :math:. Still thinking about that one though
The math isn't THAT hard. You do some formulae, we'll stick it in our spreadsheets. Same with faction. And I agree with others wanting faction POS BPCs added back to the drop tables/LP stores. Hell, come up with CONCORD POS so that Incursion LP has some value again.

Someone posted earlier about trying to get ammo into POS guns as they run out. One word: Lasers.

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Someday, this signature may save my life.
Bluegeneral
Risk Breakers
SONS of BANE
#86 - 2011-11-07 16:11:09 UTC
Good Job CCP! I was worried about the setup of this, but I approve... Now just get GM's that accually help people and you will be golden!
Raziphan Rebular
Path of Dooppa
#87 - 2011-11-07 16:11:27 UTC
Just out of curiosity won't this cause a spike in the price for everything but the non racial fuel isotopes? Because th enriched uranium, robotics, coolant, etc that are used to make say an amarr block can't be bought now and used by someoen fueling a minmatar POS? I dunno how big the price spike will be but selling the blocks on the market in large quanities will cause a spike in the cost the nonisotope fuel?
Charles Javeroux
INTERSTELLAR CREDIT
#88 - 2011-11-07 16:11:58 UTC
Are we able to trade the new Fuel Blocks at the market, from the start of day 1 ?

Also I support the idea of giving some kind of additional fuel cost bonus to Pirate Faction Towers. Just the Bay increase is not enough to justify the investments on that hardware.
Bluegeneral
Risk Breakers
SONS of BANE
#89 - 2011-11-07 16:12:10 UTC
Largo Coronet wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

As it stands currently, you'll get the bonus on large towers but nothing on medium/small due to :math:. Still thinking about that one though
The math isn't THAT hard. You do some formulae, we'll stick it in our spreadsheets. Same with faction. And I agree with others wanting faction POS BPCs added back to the drop tables/LP stores. Hell, come up with CONCORD POS so that Incursion LP has some value again.

Someone posted earlier about trying to get ammo into POS guns as they run out. One word: Lasers.



Agree, WTB Concord POS!
Hiram Alexander
State Reprisal
#90 - 2011-11-07 16:12:51 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Approximate POS fuel costs per 30 days right now:

Amarr: 136 / 213 / 366
Caldari: 140 / 220 / 381
Gallente: 176 / 291 / 523
Minmatar: 139 / 217 / 375

Estimated costs after the fuel pellets get introduced:

Amarr: 87 / 171 / 341
Caldari: 90 / 178 / 354
Gallente: 122 / 241 / 480
Minmatar: 89 / 175 / 348

I wonder if this change to consumption will make a marked difference to the trading price of Robotics...? I'm a touch unsure whether the drop in 'demand' will be significant enough, but if it is... well now, even more interesting... :)
SloMoJoe
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2011-11-07 16:13:11 UTC
CCP I'm down on my knees,
begging you please,
for an automated in situ system of fuel conversion for handover!

Players have already invested a good amount of time buying / hauling fuel out to towers and your proposed 1/2 & 1/2 fuel config during handover really kicks them in the stront bays.

A simple one time script would mean the world to us all.
Sort Dragon
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#92 - 2011-11-07 16:14:04 UTC
Not sure if this has been asked but will ME/PE be researchable on these bpos and will they have an effect as to build time and manufacturing needs?

Also will our skill sets effect the building of these fuel blocks?

Have you considered the possibility to allow people to build the fuel blocks in the rorqual also?
Silk Vixen
Perkone
Caldari State
#93 - 2011-11-07 16:14:34 UTC
Thanks for breaking what wasn't broken, CCP! Seriously, "bigger bays" on faction towers? The whole reason A LOT used them was...LESS CONSUMPTION!
Just when you STARTED to get things right you go and do this.Oops
Ore Grinder
Star-Gate Command
#94 - 2011-11-07 16:16:35 UTC
I would accept a CPU and PG boost for faction towers in lue of cheaper operation. Not that I need it for a high sec research POS, but it could come in handy for a war dec defense.
Atacdad
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#95 - 2011-11-07 16:16:46 UTC
I disagree that the faction towers are used mainly for longer run times. We used them because the fuel requirements were less. yes, that means that the fixed size fuel bay lasted longer...but it directly translated t a lower ISK/hr cost to run them. It seems that CCP's "solution" only addresses half of the issue.

Suggestion: make the faction towers "cycle" longer...say 1.5 hour long cycles. Don't get fixated on 1.5 hours, do the math to figure out what makes sense in parity with current faction tower costs of operation.

(up the stront consumption accordingly too).
Nomad I
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2011-11-07 16:18:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Nomad I
The production time for those blocks for a single large POS is 5 days (29days fuel) The 10min for a batch a far to high. In 0.0 this is a catastrophy and in empire halv of the production slots producing only those blocks.

Each high sec system with a large amount of moons needs at least fuel for 10-20 POS. In 0.0 there aren't the amount of production slots in the outposts.
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
#97 - 2011-11-07 16:19:19 UTC
OMG why havnt you guys done this and the other stuff you posted in the last couple of dev blogs not years ago.

You are not going to make this game even better, are you? : )

Cheers
Gal
mkint
#98 - 2011-11-07 16:20:02 UTC
Old system: Do math, haul fuel to POS

New system: do easier math, haul fuel to POS, haul assembly arrays to POS, re-manufacture fuel

This whole things sounds like another nerf to low/null/w-space PI for those who make their own fuel. Of course it'll be good for Greyscale's RMTing friends since they don't actually feed themselves anyway.

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MajorScrewup
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2011-11-07 16:20:31 UTC
How many manufacturing slots will this take up in empire and also will there be additional manufacturing slots seeded in 0.0 to cope with this extra layer ccp are adding to what was any already easy process?
Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2011-11-07 16:21:00 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:

So, before you bought all the fuel items and use them in your starbases. Why would you still buy the pieces instead of just buying blocks directly? Then it goes from 8-10 buy orders down to 1 with no manufacturing time.


Costs!
(and it would be 3 buy orders...)

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