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New dev blog: Starbase happy fun time

First post First post
Author
Kithran
#41 - 2011-11-07 15:46:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kithran
I think a lot of people are going to be happy with the patch but not those who fuel towers - they now have to build stuff and the amounts needed have just gone through a roof:

1 Large POS with individual fuels/with pellets for one hour

Enriched Uranium 4/16
Oxygen 25/80
Mechanical Parts 5/16
Coolant 8/32
Robotics 1/4
Isotopes 450/2000
Liquid Ozone 150/600
Heavy Water 150/600

It looks to me that someone has mucked up their figures - they seem to have used the 1 hour fuel consumption of a large tower to work out the cost of a fuel pellet and then said that fuel pellet will be used to fuel a small pos for 1 hour, net result four times the current amount of fuel is needed!

I think the numbers for the pellets need to be re-worked so that the fuel consumption for a _small_ pos is used as the basis for the build cost of a single pellet.

Kithran

Mea culpa, had missed the bit saying the pellets were built in sets of four at whcich point numbers are about the same, oxygen down slighly, mech parts down slighly, isotopes up slightly
Akara Ito
Phalanx Solutions
#42 - 2011-11-07 15:46:43 UTC
Nice Devblog, but you should really do something about the Faction Towers.

Either just split the Blocks into smaller ones that allow fuel scaling, or, even better, reseed Faction Towers.
If the prices get back to a resonable level the longer runtimes will be good enough and more people will actually benefit from those towers than the few ones that have them now.
Callic Veratar
#43 - 2011-11-07 15:47:15 UTC
Friedward Schnorch wrote:
2 questions.

"We reduced effective robotics consumption on medium and small towers because it was judged to be better than increasing the consumption on large towers"

You actually doubled the consumption for medium and quadrupled it for large towers. Currently all towers just use 1 robotics, no matter which size.

And will faction towers be available again? I might be wrong, but AFAIK they were removed them from loot tables about 2-3 years ago.


Read the blog again. You get 4 blocks for 1 robotics. Therefore, medium towers use 1/2 a robotics per hour and smalls use 1/4 a robotics per hour.
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#44 - 2011-11-07 15:47:23 UTC
Friedward Schnorch wrote:

"We reduced effective robotics consumption on medium and small towers because it was judged to be better than increasing the consumption on large towers"

You actually doubled the consumption for medium and quadrupled it for large towers. Currently all towers just use 1 robotics, no matter which size.


Those material requirements are for a batch of 4 fuel blocks. So a small tower will use 0.25 robotics/hour and a medium 0.5 robotics/hour.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644

Crexa
Ion Industrials
#45 - 2011-11-07 15:47:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Crexa
All I can say is Energon Cubes anyone? Perhaps a shape change, or color. Perhaps a pellet shape, as many have perceived them as anyway.

Like the timer changes, not sure about the fuel change (seems a little on the dumbing down side of things).

Really really really do NOT like what you are proposing for faction towers! Don't know who you talked to, but they were smoking something or you mis-understood. The value is in cost savings!! Not in time. If you fuel dozens of pos, whats a couple more?

"F=ma, so obviously they're putting mouths against arses to produce a force." "...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?"

TheButcherPete
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2011-11-07 15:48:26 UTC
WOOT! This just made my life so much easier :D


♥♥♥♥ CCP

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]

MajorScrewup
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2011-11-07 15:49:11 UTC
Jason Edwards wrote:
Quote:
Turrets, launchers, EW batteries and hardeners now take 5 seconds to anchor/unanchor and 120 seconds to online/offline


Onlining new guns as old ones get disabled... now super easy. Kinda makes it pointless to disable guns even if there are no more offline ones waiting because they could anchor new ones in 5 seconds.


Well you still have to come out of a pos forcefield to put ammo in the weapons to make them useful, so doesn't give much advantage during a pos shoot.
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#48 - 2011-11-07 15:49:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciar Meara
CCP GingerDude wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Ciar Meara wrote:
Most important sentence:

"While we're waiting to do a proper rewrite of the starbase system"

Give us a modular POS, like the great flogger of the dead horse in the sky saw in his dreams!

Agree, let's do exactly this.

Why, yes, lets. Maybe not absolutely right now today now, but... yes!


This feels like a trap, but I am taking it on face value anyway and be happy about a real, straightforward, meaningful answer, it has a soon in it, but then again, if it didn't it wouldn't be CCP :)

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]

CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#49 - 2011-11-07 15:50:42 UTC
Jack Dant wrote:
A few questions:

1) What happens to the sov bonus to fuel use?

2) What's the manufacture time on the blocks? - Answered in the devblog, sorry - 10 minutes.

3) I'm guessing assembling fuel into blocks, inside the fuel bays, over the deployment DT is too complex? That would be a better solution for players.


As it stands currently, you'll get the bonus on large towers but nothing on medium/small due to :math:. Still thinking about that one though

3) is technically feasible but raises the technical risk sufficiently that it'd have pushed the whole thing back to a nebulous "later release" (again), so we skipped it.

Alice Katsuko wrote:
Very nice changes. Might be a stupid question, but how exactly will jump bridge access be controlled now? Will it be purely through standings? And will we be able to set the level of standings at which jump bridge access is granted?

Basing it purely on control tower aggression settings may not be the best idea, because it may not allow for sufficient level of control. For example, an alliance will probably have its POS network configured to not shoot dark and light blues, but may not want light blues to use its bridge network.


Purely on aggro settings, yes. If the tower won't shoot you, you can use the bridge. The CSM was very clear that JB passwords are all public knowledge already so it's a pretty meaningless security check in practice.

Friedward Schnorch wrote:
2 questions.

"We reduced effective robotics consumption on medium and small towers because it was judged to be better than increasing the consumption on large towers"

You actually doubled the consumption for medium and quadrupled it for large towers. Currently all towers just use 1 robotics, no matter which size.


1 robotics makes 4 fuel blocks, so large towers use 1/hour (4 blocks), mediums use 0.5 (2 blocks) and smalls use 0.25 (1 block).
MajorScrewup
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2011-11-07 15:50:52 UTC
Also that dev blog could have bee worded a lot better Big smile
Romandra
These are not the droids you're looking for
#51 - 2011-11-07 15:51:09 UTC
Kithran wrote:
I think a lot of people are going to be happy with the patch but not those who fuel towers - they now have to build stuff and the amounts needed have just gone through a roof:

1 Large POS with individual fuels/with pellets for one hour

Enriched Uranium 4/16
Oxygen 25/80
Mechanical Parts 5/16
Coolant 8/32
Robotics 1/4
Isotopes 450/2000
Liquid Ozone 150/600
Heavy Water 150/600

It looks to me that someone has mucked up their figures - they seem to have used the 1 hour fuel consumption of a large tower to work out the cost of a fuel pellet and then said that fuel pellet will be used to fuel a small pos for 1 hour, net result four times the current amount of fuel is needed!

I think the numbers for the pellets need to be re-worked so that the fuel consumption for a _small_ pos is used as the basis for the build cost of a single pellet.

Kithran


Wrong. I thought the same but:

The base parts needed are to build a batch of FOUR BLOCKS. Ergo, it's actually a bit of a fuel cost REDUCTION.

However, I believe it's incredibly dumb to nerf faction POS fuel consumptions, as it's the only reason I use them. It would also be nice to find out about sov bonus.

The ideas in this thread - increase blocks/hour uses by a factor of 10, or increasing the time each block lasts on a faction tower/player sov tower, either method would work great.
Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
#52 - 2011-11-07 15:52:16 UTC
HOLY **** CCP!!!

Thanks guys!!

As to Faction towers can you make their fuel cycle 1.5 hours or something to still give a fuel bonus? maybe 1 hr 10 mins?

I don't use them, but just thought I'd toss out the idea.

I love that CCP is removing UN-NEEDED COMPLEXITY!!

The game is getting richer, thanks!
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Marbin Drakon
Reboot Required
#53 - 2011-11-07 15:53:03 UTC
You mean I won't have to spend 30m - 1 hour onlining my drug reactions every time I need to make Exile / Mindflood instead of Drop?

I'm liking this part.

Eve W-Space: Open source wormhole mapping and corporation management: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=210073

Jackeroo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2011-11-07 15:53:17 UTC
Entity wrote:



The benefit of faction towers is two-fold:
- Longer run time before refuel
- Lower cost per period

You're basically removing the cost benefit.


Better solution:
Instead of producing 4 fuel blocks per batch, produce like 100 or some other larger quantity per batch (and obviously make the volume per block lower and the blocks consumed/cycle higher). then you can apply fuel reduction bonuses as per usual and everyone will be happy.

Again, a lot of people, including me, bought a faction tower to save fuel cost, which is not insignificant. Removing that makes the investment pointless if all it does is give more time between refuels, which with this change would be of questionable value since it will be much easier.



Right!

CCP, don't understand why it is so important (or you think easy) to have 1-2-4 fuel cubes per hour. It's no more complex if you take 10-20-40 or something like this and apply the current bonus. What would happen if we had only 1, 2 and 4 euro /doller coins in real life cause it makes things easy, uh? ...
Desmont McCallock
#55 - 2011-11-07 15:53:40 UTC
Entity wrote:
Morn Hyland wrote:
Could you extend the time between fuel cell usage to give bonuses for faction towers and sovereignty i.e. normal tower usage every 60 minutes - faction tower 75 minutes or whatever factor currently separates the fuel usage.


Nice suggestion, but they can't easily do that. The POS system is pretty much locked to 1-hour cycles. Reworking it for arbitrary cycle length would not be trivial.


This was my first thought but as NTT pointed out impossible to implement.

Callic Veratar wrote:
Would it be possible for each class of faction starbase to have it's own faction fuel block? It could have a reduced cost and (potentially) a benefit for running the tower on that class of fuel.

With this change, you don't need to worry about having thousands of fuel blocks in a starbase to allow for partial consumption, but the faction towers don't lose their consumption bonuses.

The easiest bonus would be for the same ingredients, the faction block print produces 5 blocks.


This was my second thought and I support this solution.
Crias Taylor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2011-11-07 15:53:49 UTC
Quote:
The way we're strongly advising players to approach this handover is to fill your fuel bays with "half and half"


Are you ******* insane? You just dropped the tcu for the sov change can't you just convert what they have to blocks.
Jenn Makanen
Doomheim
#57 - 2011-11-07 15:53:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn Makanen
Any waste factor on the blueprints? PE still going to affect them?

edit: bah. quick post needs a receive notifications checkbox.
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#58 - 2011-11-07 15:55:42 UTC
this is brilliant news and my CEO is going to be very happy with the reduced onlining times and new fuel system
Iece Quaan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#59 - 2011-11-07 15:55:52 UTC
Not showing my work, but the inputs for a fuel block come out to 217.6 m3 volume. The output ( 4 blocks @ 50 ) is 200 m3, which would make it a compression ( but not much of one ).

Now, is that for a me0 bpo? With no skills? Cause I'm wondering if researching the bpo for ME, and having high PE, makes it so that you're expanding the inputs in terms of volume, rather than compressing.

It would be nice if it stayed a compression at all ME/PE skill levels.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#60 - 2011-11-07 15:56:15 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
•We didn't do this ages ago because I couldn't see a good way to handle the handover until someone pointed out the (obvious) half-and-half solution, at which point I punched myself in the head for not seeing that earlier

You mean until you actually asked someone else rather than torturing your mind?

Would you mind me saying that the very same approach might lead to further solutions, which are likely to remedy issues you personally have always considered as unrealizable?

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.