EVE General Discussion

Hating the behaviour is not hating the person. For instance, I find your lack of acknowledgement of your own justification of hatred abhorrent, but I don't hate you.

To be specific, neckbeard and caveman are used to apply to how men behaved at a time when they never shaved their necks and lived in caves. I don't really believe that the population of EvE lives in a cave.

However, the comments that have been cited in this thread are pretty decent proof of the belief that people are not good enough to be a part of the EvE community because of their gender, race, etc... not because of their behaviour. What about this is unclear?

I guess you don't follow Internet law well very well whereas ISPs are responsible for their CUSTOMER'S behavior. Same goes with Facebook.

See: Newspaper

Also see dictionary for "inane."

If someone wants to debate intelligently anything I've said, to include "There is no personal or corporate responsibility to deal with issues that are morally wrong. Where, anywhere in United States law, is that written? (I'll give you a hint, you made it up)"
I'll be glad to.

You however have made clear how much you dislike women in prior posts -- probably why you spewed a bunch of ignorance and didn't realize it. I don't care to have an epeen contest with you as you're not even relevant to this discussion. You're just part of the blob that is part of the problem. Why would I respect anything you say?

How is using a descriptive term declaring victory by fiat?

If I say, "that's sexist" to you, that does not mean "I win and you're worthless; get out FOREV4R!!!!1" It doesn't even mean that I think you're sexist; I've put my own foot in my own mouth more than once. It means that I think that the particular thing that you just said ("that") is discriminatory on the basis of sex ("sexist"). If you escalate it to mean more than that, then you've made any discussion impossible, because I can't even describe my position. It doesn't magically mean that I'm right, nor does it prevent you from disagreeing. It's an adjective, not a Dragon Shout. It's criticism, not censorship.

This is fundamentally about respecting the humanity of every player over every other consideration (including people with mental retardation and Asperger's, to name two classes of people that get **** on constantly here), and making the few and minor social adjustments necessary to do so. It's about what used to be known, and revered, as the Law of Hospitality. And it's about the game you'd like to see. Maybe you're happy having your sausage party in one corner of EVE. If you are, just put that in your corp description so women know not to apply, or create a private channel where you can rant with a few people who you know are similarly inclined. But in general, there's no good reason for us to be driving off what could be double the current player base for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with either the game or the metagame.

I'll help you out.

Unlike you, I haven't made this personal whereas you have.

It began with your first inflammatory response to my post and ending with your statement above (i.e. I don't respect anything you have to say, or you, for that matter.) Additionally, I've read how you treated others (including when you last said you were leaving this thread).

Sorry, but why would I want a part of that? I don't in RL let alone on a game forum.

Additionally, this isn't a PvP match, and I've neither claimed victory nor defeat. I'm here for a reason other than to poke sticks at hot coals with my alt.

When you get to be of grandmotherly age you learn to pick your battles, recognize **** talk and waste less time on pettiness.

You want this conversation to evolve around you (see past posts) whereas others (agree, disagree or indifferent) seem to understand this thread is an issue and not a game to be won or lost. The winners and losers are the people affected.

It's really that simple.

Are you really willing to talk Kaarous Aldurald?

Perhaps it wasn't clear that my post was directed at you before so I will ask the question again.

Do you consider male school teachers outsiders among school teachers?

What you are saying is that when a minority is so small that it becomes awkward in social situations they can be viewed as an outsider. Okay. I get that.

However, I still adapt a different mindset mainly because I have to. Think about it this way, if I, a member of the minority, adapts the mindset of an outsider, then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. I will always feel like an outsider. The fact that I am female will always be an issue because I will be making it an issue. Now if I adapt my mindset instead, that I'm not really a true outsider just that I'm different it changes things. It makes it so that I am no longer making an issue out of my gender. Instead, I only have to deal with gender issues when other people make it my issue. In a way I can police that by cutting contact with those I don't wish to talk to.

Now it is true that I would be considered an outsider in anything that is deemed "male only." Hell, I wouldn't even be surprised if I was denied entry to some social group in EVE because of my gender. It sucks yes. I just don't consider EVE Online as a whole to be male only. Even with the 96/4 split, CCP is still willing take to my money.

Really hoping i did not misunderstand something in your post, if i did i apologize in advance.

I can agree to some extent but, and this is my own views, its not really possible to "stop" considering your self an "outsider" as its called here.
Honestly i dont feel that word is accurate. Different is better. It might just be because of my english but when someone says "outsider" i think about someone who cant fit into a certain social group no matter how hard they try.Saying that a female gamer is an "outsider" because of the gender just seems wrong with my mindset. Sorry.

But female gamers are more unusual, especially in EVE, thus we are different. And we know that, just like we know that there will sometimes be guys that thinks we will have cyber just because we are a female gamer, and that there will be people who will have no respect because of our gender. We can tell our self that "Nope, we are no different then the male gamers", but in my own opinion i know i would be lying to my self if i did that.
If i jump on a random TS or voice server i know there is a 90% chance that i will hear;
Your a female!
Bad attempts at flirting.
Even worse attempts at impressing me.
Someone who completely ignores me because im a female.

Male players in general dont have this.
*Please note that i do not think that female gamers are better or worse then male gamers, both genders have their issues and personalities we dont agree and/or get along with.

Just because you can accept that this can (and most likely will) happen does not mean that you are self fulfilling a prophecy.
However it does mean that you can deal with it easier and be able to tolerate it and not let it get to you, and from there evolve ways to counter it. One example you gave your self is to simply stop talking to those people. And honestly, if you truly feel that you are no different or "an outsider", you would not have had any needs to find ways to "police it" because you would not expect things to happen anyway.

We are kind of arguing the same thing but arguing semantics and word choice. I agree that as a female player I will never be "just like the guys." Then again I'm not trying to be a guy. I'm just being me, which includes being female. I am different from the guys that play EVE. Hell, NC I've talked to you before in game. I'm pretty different than some of the girls who play EVE to. That is okay.

I'm just saying you shouldn't focus on the fact you are different when you are playing a game online. You should focus on playing the game instead. Hopefully that should clarify what I meant.

Yep, I agree almost exactly. It's the people who do behave like "Tee hee, give me stuff!" that I do not accept.

There are culture of just about everything out there. Just about anything you can find a subreddit for. My mother, a while ago, introduced me to the knitting culture, and it's surprisingly deep, and they hate the crochet subculture pretty fiercely. It's rather fascinating.