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[s]Mars[/s] EVE needs Women!

First post First post First post
Author
Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#581 - 2013-06-14 04:58:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarra Mandalin
Jenn aSide wrote:



How would anything anyone (but maybe CCP) could do have any impact on the "culture" here? How do you use societal or peer pressure on people sitting anonymously at a keyboard in some cave? You think you can convince EVE players (one of the most notorious online communities on Earth) to be nicer to and more tolerant of each other in the name of diversity?

That's probably my biggest bone to pick with this thread, it's pie in the sky thinking. What actual practical steps could anyone take to bring about "more diversity" if the big stumbling block is the community?

It's what I tell people (other "minorities" so to speak) on my job, your legal rights are one thing (just like in game no one can harass you or do certain things or else CCP will chop them up). But beyond that, you're just going to have to learn to live with an imperfect world of imperfect people. That or go crazy fretting that things aren't just like you like them.



I've appreciated your posts and attitude as you can speak from minority experience, even if you disagree.

My answer to one of your questions: on what people can do, includes firstly: leadership.

I was in a corp that had a solid policy against mistreatment of corpmates. Those who deserved it were let go and some were podded on their merry way.

However, the Alliance (of modest size) chat was full of offensive/hate speech and porn links (which were not appreciated by everyone, male or female) -- primarily from the same 10 or so people.

The CEO and Alliance head got together and came up with a simple solution to add a separate chat for porn and X-rated talk and both helped in curbing the slurs etc. They did so with zero loss in membership -- other than maybe people about to get canned anyway.

Now while this undertaking would be huge, if not burdensome and impractical, in a large alliance, the point is two-fold.

a) reasonable people and cool heads prevailed for a solution
b) like-minded corps and alliances work better together

Following this move, members took it upon themselves to moderate/guide newcomers -- in their own creative way -- who were accustomed to a free-for-all and disrespect.

It worked out quite well, actually. As a pirate group we didn't turn all nicey-nice either ...but I don't think the rules were burdensome for most.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#582 - 2013-06-14 05:37:34 UTC
Quote:
I've appreciated your posts and attitude as you can speak from minority experience, even if you disagree.


I am curious as to what you mean by this? Do you value his opinion more because he stated openly that he belongs to a minority group? Please explain further, this is intriguing.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#583 - 2013-06-14 05:55:00 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
I've appreciated your posts and attitude as you can speak from minority experience, even if you disagree.


I am curious as to what you mean by this? Do you value his opinion more because he stated openly that he belongs to a minority group? Please explain further, this is intriguing.


Your obsession with me is neither flattering nor amusing.
Consider yourself on notice I wish no further contact with you here or elsewhere.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#584 - 2013-06-14 06:09:55 UTC
Amarra Mandalin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
I've appreciated your posts and attitude as you can speak from minority experience, even if you disagree.


I am curious as to what you mean by this? Do you value his opinion more because he stated openly that he belongs to a minority group? Please explain further, this is intriguing.


Your obsession with me is neither flattering nor amusing.
Consider yourself on notice I wish no further contact with you here or elsewhere.



Ha ha ha ha! Very amusing. Don't flatter yourself, I asked an honest question, I'd like an honest answer.

I am curious if his identifying himself as being black was a factor in that statement.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#585 - 2013-06-14 09:57:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Menda
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Amarra Mandalin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
I've appreciated your posts and attitude as you can speak from minority experience, even if you disagree.


I am curious as to what you mean by this? Do you value his opinion more because he stated openly that he belongs to a minority group? Please explain further, this is intriguing.


Your obsession with me is neither flattering nor amusing.
Consider yourself on notice I wish no further contact with you here or elsewhere.



Ha ha ha ha! Very amusing. Don't flatter yourself, I asked an honest question, I'd like an honest answer.

I am curious if his identifying himself as being black was a factor in that statement.


Clearly you lack the ability to read what people post.

No means no.

She doesn't want to talk to you, that you just keep trying shows exactly that you are the kind of players that are the issue.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy

Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#586 - 2013-06-14 10:01:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Menda
NightCrawler 85 wrote:
Juny Wuny wrote:

What you are saying is that when a minority is so small that it becomes awkward in social situations they can be viewed as an outsider. Okay. I get that.

However, I still adapt a different mindset mainly because I have to. Think about it this way, if I, a member of the minority, adapts the mindset of an outsider, then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. I will always feel like an outsider. The fact that I am female will always be an issue because I will be making it an issue. Now if I adapt my mindset instead, that I'm not really a true outsider just that I'm different it changes things. It makes it so that I am no longer making an issue out of my gender. Instead, I only have to deal with gender issues when other people make it my issue. In a way I can police that by cutting contact with those I don't wish to talk to.

Now it is true that I would be considered an outsider in anything that is deemed "male only." Hell, I wouldn't even be surprised if I was denied entry to some social group in EVE because of my gender. It sucks yes. I just don't consider EVE Online as a whole to be male only. Even with the 96/4 split, CCP is still willing take to my money.


Really hoping i did not misunderstand something in your post, if i did i apologize in advance.

I can agree to some extent but, and this is my own views, its not really possible to "stop" considering your self an "outsider" as its called here.
Honestly i dont feel that word is accurate. Different is better. It might just be because of my english but when someone says "outsider" i think about someone who cant fit into a certain social group no matter how hard they try.Saying that a female gamer is an "outsider" because of the gender just seems wrong with my mindset. Sorry.

But female gamers are more unusual, especially in EVE, thus we are different. And we know that, just like we know that there will sometimes be guys that thinks we will have cyber just because we are a female gamer, and that there will be people who will have no respect because of our gender. We can tell our self that "Nope, we are no different then the male gamers", but in my own opinion i know i would be lying to my self if i did that.
If i jump on a random TS or voice server i know there is a 90% chance that i will hear;
Your a female!
Bad attempts at flirting.
Even worse attempts at impressing me.
Someone who completely ignores me because im a female.

Male players in general dont have this.
*Please note that i do not think that female gamers are better or worse then male gamers, both genders have their issues and personalities we dont agree and/or get along with.

Just because you can accept that this can (and most likely will) happen does not mean that you are self fulfilling a prophecy.
However it does mean that you can deal with it easier and be able to tolerate it and not let it get to you, and from there evolve ways to counter it. One example you gave your self is to simply stop talking to those people. And honestly, if you truly feel that you are no different or "an outsider", you would not have had any needs to find ways to "police it" because you would not expect things to happen anyway.


What, you don't do cyberSad. That's the reason I joined your corp....










Just kidding gals...NC knows she doesn't have to take me serious and that 90% of the stuff I talk about is random stupid stuff.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy

Shedemei Silfar
Miskatonic Mercantile
#587 - 2013-06-14 11:14:43 UTC
Amarra Mandalin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
I've appreciated your posts and attitude as you can speak from minority experience, even if you disagree.


I am curious as to what you mean by this? Do you value his opinion more because he stated openly that he belongs to a minority group? Please explain further, this is intriguing.


Your obsession with me is neither flattering nor amusing.
Consider yourself on notice I wish no further contact with you here or elsewhere.


If you're gonna try to play the reverse discrimination card, don't bother.

She very clearly stated exactly why she valued his experience. He shared how he dealt with being targeted as a minority. Now if you have a story where you were actually really a minority AND you've been treated like one, please feel free to share... but so far I'm not seeing it. I have no idea what your actual ethnicity is, and don't care, but so far your overall tone is that of a person who has never been the target of hate or dehumanization. LIke so:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY

Now, if you'd care to share otherwise - and i don't mean "omg i had to work with alot of women once and i heard them say men don't like to ask for directions"... but something personal and hateful directed at YOU, for no reason other than being male, go right ahead. Otherwise, it's hard to listen when you say "oh, you should just ignore them".
Ruhm Runner
The Brass Monkey Syndicate
Brothers of Tangra
#588 - 2013-06-14 11:21:49 UTC
I just returned recently from a two year hiatus ( severely addicted again too I might add). My wife wanted to try it out as well. She mad an account and is now training her skills up.

She loves the game so far and is addicted as I am and trying to get some of her pc gamer friends into it as well. The female population is growing, slowly but surely my friends.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#589 - 2013-06-14 12:35:58 UTC
Amarra Mandalin wrote:


I've appreciated your posts and attitude as you can speak from minority experience, even if you disagree.

My answer to one of your questions: on what people can do, includes firstly: leadership.

I was in a corp that had a solid policy against mistreatment of corpmates. Those who deserved it were let go and some were podded on their merry way.

However, the Alliance (of modest size) chat was full of offensive/hate speech and **** links (which were not appreciated by everyone, male or female) -- primarily from the same 10 or so people.

The CEO and Alliance head got together and came up with a simple solution to add a separate chat for **** and X-rated talk and both helped in curbing the slurs etc. They did so with zero loss in membership -- other than maybe people about to get canned anyway.

Now while this undertaking would be huge, if not burdensome and impractical, in a large alliance, the point is two-fold.

a) reasonable people and cool heads prevailed for a solution
b) like-minded corps and alliances work better together

Following this move, members took it upon themselves to moderate/guide newcomers -- in their own creative way -- who were accustomed to a free-for-all and disrespect.

It worked out quite well, actually. As a pirate group we didn't turn all nicey-nice either ...but I don't think the rules were burdensome for most.


And there's nothing wrong with any of that. I've been in crops and alliances that didn't tolerate the Bs in the 1st place and thus never had to do what you describe.

But the point is, you can't do that for an entire game community of anonymous people, which is what we're talking about.

For me, it's enough that I don't have to deal with too much of it (in my case, racism) in my own playing group and that CCP will ban people who do it overtly in game (such as in local chat or via evemail/convos etc). But even with all that, some nasty people do still exist and some play the game and I have no illusions about them ever leaving.

Because stupid people and stupidity will always exist, I've learned to live with it (in game and out), either by ignoring it, or (more often, as is the case of my posting on these forums) pointing at them and laughing my ass off and inviting others to do so as well. That imo is a proper response.

An improper response would sitting around fretting about it (to the point of not playing EVE) while waiting for the EVE community to come together around a campfire and sing Kumbayah while eating disgusting Icelandic food.. Again, this is not acceptance of evil, it's acceptance of reality (and adapting to the same).
Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#590 - 2013-06-14 14:42:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarra Mandalin
dbl post monster
Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#591 - 2013-06-14 14:48:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarra Mandalin
Jenn aSide wrote:


And there's nothing wrong with any of that. I've been in crops and alliances that didn't tolerate the Bs in the 1st place and thus never had to do what you describe.

But the point is, you can't do that for an entire game community of anonymous people, which is what we're talking about.

For me, it's enough that I don't have to deal with too much of it (in my case, racism) in my own playing group and that CCP will ban people who do it overtly in game (such as in local chat or via evemail/convos etc). But even with all that, some nasty people do still exist and some play the game and I have no illusions about them ever leaving.

Because stupid people and stupidity will always exist, I've learned to live with it (in game and out), either by ignoring it, or (more often, as is the case of my posting on these forums) pointing at them and laughing my ass off and inviting others to do so as well. That imo is a proper response.

An improper response would sitting around fretting about it (to the point of not playing EVE) while waiting for the EVE community to come together around a campfire and sing Kumbayah while eating disgusting Icelandic food.. Again, this is not acceptance of evil, it's acceptance of reality (and adapting to the same).


That makes sense and I don't have the desire to revolutionize EVE nor the time to do so if I did. -- Esp. since I'm addicted to a horse and sword game now (lol). I also see where it would be wasted effort.

I guess where we differ is that I am not into accepting anything I feel is wrong. Do I always make a fuss? No, I ignore a lot as most stuff doesn't bother me or I tune it out. But while I don't always speak up, I feel like I bertray myself when I don't, in some cases.

But I'm neither a loudmouth nor an extrovert so I have to really be irked about something to say anything. As a result, people may not know something is wrong.

I also believe in this quote and hold it dear:

“Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.” -Margaret Mead

And if that doesn't work, Ok, yes, there are ship explosions to be made. :-D

Otherwise, I don't know what you have to go through in this game. I honestly thought we had progressed further as a society --(other than slurs -- which I see everywhere, not limited to race or gender) but what do I know from my white neighborhood.?

I do know the one corp I was in with a black man (I guess I didn't know/consider this was a minority (as in outsider) in Eve until this thread and in hindsight) that he was not treated any different on comms or by the corp in any way that was obvious to me. I can't say the same about me.

But I chalked it up to some guys were just more comfortable flying with a guy. I didn't get an invitation to this or that outing but didn't take it personal, it's just how it was. But through that experience I just started going out on my own and with people who took the time to get to know me. Once the glass ceiling was broke I had a lot of fun.

I don't know if gender/race ceilings are comparable in EVE but if you're having a good time and what you're doing works for you, I presume that is what matters most.


Oh and this:
Quote:

An improper response would sitting around fretting about it (to the point of not playing EVE) while waiting for the EVE community to come together around a campfire and sing Kumbayah while eating disgusting Icelandic food.. Again, this is not acceptance of evil, it's acceptance of reality (and adapting to the same).


Not only is this hilarious in parts but better distinguishes your view to me. As, yeah, I kinda saw some things you wrote as acceptance of evil.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#592 - 2013-06-14 15:02:55 UTC
Amarra Mandalin wrote:


I guess where we differ is that I am not into accepting anything I feel is wrong. Do I always make a fuss? No, I ignore a lot as most stuff doesn't bother me or I tune it out. But while I don't always speak up, I feel like I bertray myself when I don't. in some cases.


I simply don't believe every injustice is my business to be honest. I work in a field where I confront actual bad people everyday, so I've learned to pick my battles. A video game community is not one of those battlefields.


Quote:

Otherwise, I don't know what you have to go through in this game. I honestly thought we had progressed further as a society --(other than slurs -- which I see everywhere, not limited to race or gender) but what do I know from my white neighborhood.?


Progress in society isn't ever going to get past the fact that we're humans, members of the Animal Kingdom and flawed. While we like to think we're all modern, the fact is that humanity if YOUNG, still in it's infancy and still prone to lots of crazy things like hormones and instincts and such.

What do you know from your white neighborhood? Hopefully what you can know in ANY neighborhood. That people are complex and capable of good and evil and that it pays to understand that you can't understand everything about 1 person let alone 6+ billion human beings.

Quote:

I do know the one corp I was in with a black man (I guess I didn't know this was a minority in Eve until this thread and in hindsight) that he was not treated any different on comms or by the corp in any way that was obvious to me. I can't say the same about me.

But I chalked it up to some guys were just more comfortable flying with a guy. I didn't get an invitation to this or that outing but didn't take it personal, it's just how it was. But through that experience I just started going out on my own and with people who took the time to get to know me. Once the glass ceiling was broke I had a lot of fun.

I don't know if gender/race ceilings are comparable in EVE but if you're having a good time and what you're doing works for you, I presume that is what matters most.


I've had uncomfortable moments but nothing too crazy.

The thing with women in corp/fleet/comms whatever is the perception that you (as a guy ) can't be yourself anymore for fear of offending someone. You have to walk on eggshells all day everyday at work/school for fear of a sexual harrasement lawsuit or getting fired/expelled, and then to have to come home to it and deal with it in a spaceship game? Not many dudes want to do that.

In one of my old corps we have a female player who was very sensitive. No one wanted to fly with her. In my current corp the only female we have is married to another member and I SWEAR she has the dirtiest brain on the planet, she tells so many male genitailia jokes WE sometimes groan at them. We love her so much must of us REFUSE to undock and go roaming till she's online lol, because as a freind she goes out of her way to make us comfortable, so we return the feeling.
Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#593 - 2013-06-14 15:23:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarra Mandalin
Jenn aSide wrote:


What do you know from your white neighborhood? Hopefully what you can know in ANY neighborhood. That people are complex and capable of good and evil and that it pays to understand that you can't understand everything about 1 person let alone 6+ billion human beings.


Just clarifying that I meant I know no more about living life in game or out as any other race any more then a guy knows what it's like to be a woman. Life experience teaches us some things, but as you say we can't understand everything about a person.

Quote:


I've had uncomfortable moments but nothing too crazy.

The thing with women in corp/fleet/comms whatever is the perception that you (as a guy ) can't be yourself anymore for fear of offending someone. You have to walk on eggshells all day everyday at work/school for fear of a sexual harrasement lawsuit or getting fired/expelled, and then to have to come home to it and deal with it in a spaceship game? Not many dudes want to do that.

In one of my old corps we have a female player who was very sensitive. No one wanted to fly with her. In my current corp the only female we have is married to another member and I SWEAR she has the dirtiest brain on the planet, she tells so many male genitailia jokes WE sometimes groan at them. We love her so much must of us REFUSE to undock and go roaming till she's online lol, because as a freind she goes out of her way to make us comfortable, so we return the feeling.


Well that's a lot to deal with as a guy. If that's a bigger issue that compels guys to act as they do, I can see that really the only way to deal with that is prove yourself to not be the kind of person so despised. And with any corp the onus is on the player to prove themselves.

That said, I don't see it as justification for being an idiot towards women-- esp. beyond the status quo mmo idiocy often derived from immaturity.

But it looks like there are multiple issues at play. I really don't know how to counter the above other than as mentioned -- by not sending people running and not being a drama queen. I get that.

Then we have the issue of people acting inappropriately in general. I think it is easier to address that than realized (when the situation warrants) but people may be afraid (to break rank) /too lazy or disinterested to do so. (And such I gave kudos and an example of people taking action without causing havoc or buzzkill).

ETA: There are many girl gamers who simply want to play the game (so it goes both ways) and often are as hardcore as guys. (I know I can be and to try to make others comfortable) But they shouldn't have to tell **** jokes to be accepted. A lot of men don't and don't care much for it (hence, my point on finding compatible corps).

It just seems some improvements could be made here -- with mostly minimal effort -- to allow them to do so without having to jump through several hoops just to be treated half-decently.

P.S.S -- I dunno maybe I'm in the minority (I mean besides the other minority) but even though this game is cruel and you need hard skin, if I see someone mistreated *as a person* it is my natural instinct to call people out on it. I don't really get why that isn't more common...granted I come from a kinder time, -- in part, but not all, due to lack of anonymity --more or less.

Ok, so the truth is out, I'm really Mother Hen. P
Shedemei Silfar
Miskatonic Mercantile
#594 - 2013-06-14 15:35:18 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


The thing with women in corp/fleet/comms whatever is the perception that you (as a guy ) can't be yourself anymore for fear of offending someone. You have to walk on eggshells all day everyday at work/school for fear of a sexual harrasement lawsuit or getting fired/expelled, and then to have to come home to it and deal with it in a spaceship game? Not many dudes want to do that.


Yeah, I find overly sensitive people annoying as well - total buzzkill, and I TOTALLY get this. We all just want to be ourselves, and oversensitivity just does not help. There's definitely an acceptable amount of banter. Right there with you.

Quote:

In one of my old corps we have a female player who was very sensitive. No one wanted to fly with her. In my current corp the only female we have is married to another member and I SWEAR she has the dirtiest brain on the planet, she tells so many male genitailia jokes WE sometimes groan at them. We love her so much must of us REFUSE to undock and go roaming till she's online lol, because as a freind she goes out of her way to make us comfortable, so we return the feeling.


This.
It's really not hard to find mutually acceptable ground. Not all SEXUAL remarks are SEXIST, and yes, much of it is just how male culture relates. Actually, with the exception of **** culture remarks and statements that are OBVIOUSLY (and this has as much to do with context and tone as it does with the words that are said) hateful and dehumanizing, I don't have a much of a problem with the way anyone speaks. My only other pet peeve is when people start going on about their politics lol. Cuz i just don't care.
Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#595 - 2013-06-14 16:24:48 UTC
What if we just had billboards in EVE that say.

WARNING: Real girls play EVE, and yes they have breasts.
Get over it and don't crash your ship when one speaks.
Have a nice day.
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
#596 - 2013-06-14 17:22:47 UTC
Shedemei Silfar wrote:
... or even AC Darktide.


You, too?

That was my first PvP game. It's where I learned to love free-for-all PvP settings. Ah, the memories.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#597 - 2013-06-14 17:29:56 UTC
Quote:
If you're gonna try to play the reverse discrimination card, don't bother.

She very clearly stated exactly why she valued his experience. He shared how he dealt with being targeted as a minority. Now if you have a story where you were actually really a minority AND you've been treated like one, please feel free to share... but so far I'm not seeing it. I have no idea what your actual ethnicity is, and don't care, but so far your overall tone is that of a person who has never been the target of hate or dehumanization. LIke so:


Heh, I wasn't trying to do anything. It would have been nice to hear something besides "Oh you're black, so you understand" in so many words. I do however find it highly amusing that the response to having been caught inn such a patronizing and arguably racist statement was the forum equivalent of "I'm taking my ball and going home!".

Also, dunno why, but the link didn't work.

Quote:
Now, if you'd care to share otherwise - and i don't mean "omg i had to work with alot of women once and i heard them say men don't like to ask for directions"... but something personal and hateful directed at YOU, for no reason other than being male, go right ahead. Otherwise, it's hard to listen when you say "oh, you should just ignore them".


That last sentence is the part I have an issue with. "oh, you couldn't understand because you aren't XYZ".

That's not how that works. This isn't the "share discrimination stories or GTFO" thread.

Regardless of what ethnicity I am (or gender, for that matter), if I am saying "just ignore it" and that is my earnestly held opinion on what the best response to the situation is, then it shouldn't matter if I am white, black, or polka dot.

But "I respect your opinion more because you're black, so you know how it feels", yeah, that's just racist. Particularly coming from a person bemoaning the lack of respect for females in the game.

So, in her own words, this:

Quote:
An improper response would sitting around fretting about it (to the point of not playing EVE) while waiting for the EVE community to come together around a campfire and sing Kumbayah while eating disgusting Icelandic food.. Again, this is not acceptance of evil, it's acceptance of reality (and adapting to the same).


Is more acceptable to her than this:

Quote:
When someone, regardless of who or what they are, is the newcomer in a social setting, the onus is on you, like it or not. That is the reality of the situation. Ignoring reality for an ideology never works. You work with reality, not against it.


Because the person in the first quote, said he was black.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#598 - 2013-06-14 17:36:12 UTC
Amarra Mandalin wrote:
What if we just had billboards in EVE that say.

WARNING: Real girls play EVE, and yes they have breasts.
Get over it and don't crash your ship when one speaks.
Have a nice day.


I vote for that one.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy

Selene Nask
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#599 - 2013-06-14 18:35:13 UTC
Ace Menda wrote:
Amarra Mandalin wrote:
What if we just had billboards in EVE that say.

WARNING: Real girls play EVE, and yes they have breasts.
Get over it and don't crash your ship when one speaks.
Have a nice day.


I vote for that one.


I'd add. PS: Make your own damn 'sammich'
Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#600 - 2013-06-14 18:49:16 UTC
Selene Nask wrote:
Ace Menda wrote:
Amarra Mandalin wrote:
What if we just had billboards in EVE that say.

WARNING: Real girls play EVE, and yes they have breasts.
Get over it and don't crash your ship when one speaks.
Have a nice day.


I vote for that one.


I'd add. PS: Make your own damn 'sammich'


OMG- YES!