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An analysis of nullsec mining changes in Odyssey

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Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#201 - 2013-06-07 05:07:36 UTC
Draconus Lofwyr wrote:
Jason Xado wrote:
energypills wrote:
25 Mackinaws (a botter)


Please do not confuse multiboxing with botting.



in this case, either one has the same unfair advantage as they are removing the ice before anyone else can get a chance at it. this is what happens when the sound bite is more important than the actual effects it has on the market.


Simply not true. A botter has the ability to be mining while they are off at work, asleep, or having dinner. The multiboxer still has to be present at the computer, and as such, cannot simply be there every time the belt pops, to strip it out. The multiboxer has no 'unfair' advantage.
energypills
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2013-06-07 15:00:15 UTC  |  Edited by: energypills
One reason I have an issue with not being able to just undock and go to an ice belt to mine is that. I run a PVP toon.
I don't like plexing to pay for the ships I loose. So I thought I'd be more practical, pay another 15 a month for a regular mining toon that I could side-train as a cyno pilot as well while mining to pay for my PVP habit.

So I spent time training him up and now I can't mine it. I think that is a pretty valid reason to be frustrated. What worries me is that CCP is banking on and catering to botter/multiboxers (one player with multiple Eve characters) instead of people who play solo. I have been playing sine 2003 - don't think I'd be too stoked if they dropped the ball on solo players.
ClusterCuss1
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#203 - 2013-06-07 15:21:47 UTC  |  Edited by: ClusterCuss1
energypills wrote:
One reason I have an issue with not being able to just undock and go to an ice belt to mine is that. I run a PVP toon.
I don't like plexing to pay for the ships I loose. So I thought I'd be more practical, pay another 15 a month for a regular mining toon that I could side-train as a cyno pilot as well while mining to pay for my PVP habit.

So I spent time training him up and now I can't mine it. I think that is a pretty valid reason to be frustrated. What worries me is that CCP is banking on and catering to botter/multiboxers (one player with multiple Eve characters) instead of people who play solo. I have been playing sine 2003 - don't think I'd be too stoked if they dropped the ball on solo players.



First off, you just said you are one of the "player(s) with multiple Eve characters", second this has been a know update for a very long time so either you just trained up ice mining after the announcement and then hadn't gotten a chance to use to you it in which case you shouldn't of trained ice mining. or you trained it up before the announcement in which case you have gotten to use it and should be so upset.

Ice mining is a quick train, and you should have the skills to easily go over to ore mining.
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#204 - 2013-06-07 16:43:55 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
people probably fly a covetor or a hulk because if they are in a fleet then tank and cargo are both as relevant as a fruit cake is to a venus fly trap plant.


Even a hulk has a 14s align time. So either you're flying aligned to a celestial and retargeting ice as you move past the previous block, or you get ganked.

Try it sometime before Odyssey. Head out to an ice field with a max-yield Hulk fitted with Ice Harvester IIs Lol

A max yield HULK can still have well over 20k ehp. A MAX dps Talos can only do 16,000 damage before CONCORD shows up. A MAX damage Catayst can do at best about 8,000 damage before CONCORD shows up.

Before the mining ship buff you could gank a max yield hulk with a single catayst, now you need 3-4 catalysts or 2 talos. Ganking miners costs much more than it used to.


You really shouldn't print incorrect statistics as noobie miners might accept them as fact and end up shipless or podded. I don't have that much knowledge of Talos/Tornado etc but I'm fairly certain one will be able to gank a 'max yield' Hulk even with Orca support. Admittedly it would be uneconomic to do so but if you wish to grief or remove the competition then use a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
You probably need to define what you mean by 'max yield hulk' but if you use more than one T2 upgrade you won't have 'well over' 20k ehp. With about 20.3k ehp you will JUST ABOUT survive a gank from a single T2 fitted Catalyst and get to collect the Catalysts T2 wreck items. That is in a 0.5 system. I'm uncertain where you get the 8,000 damage for a max damage Catalyst from. Maybe that happens in a 0.9 system. I don't know.
It is still very common for a single T2 Catalyst to gank successfully Hulks and Mackinaws especially as so many pilots think a small extender and a civilian shield repairer is sufficient tank. And with so many Mackinaws gathering around the last rocks in ice anomalies it's going to be well worth bringing out the disco-bombing battleships even with 'extra materials' added. Twisted

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .
Erloas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#205 - 2013-06-07 17:38:36 UTC
energypills wrote:
One reason I have an issue with not being able to just undock and go to an ice belt to mine is that. I run a PVP toon.
I don't like plexing to pay for the ships I loose. So I thought I'd be more practical, pay another 15 a month for a regular mining toon that I could side-train as a cyno pilot as well while mining to pay for my PVP habit.

So I spent time training him up and now I can't mine it. I think that is a pretty valid reason to be frustrated. What worries me is that CCP is banking on and catering to botter/multiboxers (one player with multiple Eve characters) instead of people who play solo. I have been playing sine 2003 - don't think I'd be too stoked if they dropped the ball on solo players.

I don't get the complaint. You are implying high-sec ice mining (because it doesn't seem like low or null sec ice fields are running out constantly) and up until about a week ago you made more from mining scordite in high-sec then you did mining ice by about 30%. So if you were mining ice before you were not making as much as you could have been with the same ship and most of the same skills in high-sec.

And having just updated the Isk per Hour program with the newest prices... ice is about the same as ore in terms of income with the winner being decided by your exact refining skills. So in short you haven't lost any income with these changes if you just switch from ice to ore and if you were only doing ice before you were making less they could could have been making with ore anyway.

I'm not entirely sure if the program takes into account the faster cycle times of ice harvesters now, which would increase its current isk per hour but doesn't change the fact that you were making less mining ice before the patch then you would be mining ore before or after the patch.
Wyndeigo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#206 - 2013-06-08 22:44:34 UTC
Just some post expansion feedback from my personal experience so far, I have logged on everyday during my usual online times, since the expansion release and was within 1 jump of a major ice belt system in high sec . So far , to date, no ice to be found within 15 jumps .

I have 2 accounts in which I can mine ice, to cut my costs down on capital fuels, and also any ores ( both are perfect skilled ) and both are now somewhat useless if i wanted to mine ice quietly after a long work day. If I wanted to mine ore i could or would do so, but a major portion of game play has now been removed for me. So, basically those are 2 paying accounts that I have little incentive to log in to based on my current post Odyssey experience to date.

I have been reading the concerns from others and finding that belts are being mined out so quickly that unless you catch them when they spawn your out of luck. I am not a happy paying customer at this point so, consolidating accounts would be better than scrapping 2 60 million plus xp toons. That's 2 less subs a month for CCP, which may not mean much as a whole but, I am pretty sure i am not the only one with the same experience.
Dave Stark
#207 - 2013-06-08 23:26:03 UTC
Wyndeigo wrote:
Just some post expansion feedback from my personal experience so far, I have logged on everyday during my usual online times, since the expansion release and was within 1 jump of a major ice belt system in high sec . So far , to date, no ice to be found within 15 jumps .

I have 2 accounts in which I can mine ice, to cut my costs down on capital fuels, and also any ores ( both are perfect skilled ) and both are now somewhat useless if i wanted to mine ice quietly after a long work day. If I wanted to mine ore i could or would do so, but a major portion of game play has now been removed for me. So, basically those are 2 paying accounts that I have little incentive to log in to based on my current post Odyssey experience to date.

I have been reading the concerns from others and finding that belts are being mined out so quickly that unless you catch them when they spawn your out of luck. I am not a happy paying customer at this point so, consolidating accounts would be better than scrapping 2 60 million plus xp toons. That's 2 less subs a month for CCP, which may not mean much as a whole but, I am pretty sure i am not the only one with the same experience.



considering ice mining was one of the lowest isk/hour activities, you weren't cutting your costs as much as shooting yourself in the foot if you were mining ice for personal use.

why don't you just use your 2 accounts to do something that generates more isk/hour and just buy the ice products that you need instead?
Sapegu
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2013-06-09 21:55:37 UTC
Hi all,

I mine in -0.5 to -1.0
As i am not the only one mining in the systems where ice belts form and i mine, i cant find out if belts respawn after some days without beeing mined.
I can insure that it will not respawn after DT as a new belt, it will be the same as before DT. But does it have a timer that force New Belt formation after 3 days ore something like that?
I ask this because when i mined Ore, we mined only High End minerals off Extra Large hidden belts, and it would respawn a couple off days latter.

Another thing, is RORQ going to be Buffed in Ice Compression?

Thanx all.
Mathrin
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#209 - 2013-06-10 12:58:29 UTC
Sapegu wrote:
Hi all,

I mine in -0.5 to -1.0
As i am not the only one mining in the systems where ice belts form and i mine, i cant find out if belts respawn after some days without beeing mined.
I can insure that it will not respawn after DT as a new belt, it will be the same as before DT. But does it have a timer that force New Belt formation after 3 days ore something like that?
I ask this because when i mined Ore, we mined only High End minerals off Extra Large hidden belts, and it would respawn a couple off days latter.

Another thing, is RORQ going to be Buffed in Ice Compression?

Thanx all.


At one point we had about 3 rocks in a belt 4 over days so no it doesn't respawn unless its cleared.