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Feedback for Hacking/Archaeology feature from 27/5/13 onward

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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#161 - 2013-05-29 14:29:14 UTC
CCP Prime wrote:
So for the scattering mechanism we've reduced the speed that the cans eject out at.
It'll make chasing them almost unneeded.
Crimewatch will now apply to the cans like as with any other loot.
The mini container names will actually hint at what you can get from them (currently on SiSi it is a completely random association.) This will help deciding on what loot you are actually going for.

Also, a few bugs, like the one when the bracket disappears for a container that had started to blink, has been fixed.

We want to iterate on tying hacking success to the scattering, and hopefully we'll be able to do so in a point release.

Looks better. Great job.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
#162 - 2013-05-29 14:39:14 UTC
CCP Prime wrote:
So for the scattering mechanism we've reduced the speed that the cans eject out at.
It'll make chasing them almost unneeded.
Crimewatch will now apply to the cans like as with any other loot.
The mini container names will actually hint at what you can get from them (currently on SiSi it is a completely random association.) This will help deciding on what loot you are actually going for.


Is this live on Sisi right now?

I asked in the old feedback thread but got no answer, so i'll ask here again: Is it on purpose that you lose a can if you are clicking on the next one too early? And is it tied to this sound which is played when the can is in scoop-to-cargo-range after you tractor-beamed them there? Can you fix the sound, so i can have feedback when to click the next can? right now the sound plays too early and my cans get lost because i am clicking the next one too early.
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#163 - 2013-05-29 14:46:58 UTC
I finally hacked a few times yesterday. To be honest the whole thing feels...random. And I am not talking about the loot pinata at the end.

The hacking games itself lacks strategy and purpose. There seems to be no actual strategy to all the clicking. You just click on all the nodes until you hit the core. There is no reason I would click this node or that node, They all look the same and they all feel the same. From that perspective I just have to keep clicking nodes, it doesn't matter the order or sequence or position they are in.
Ther eis no thought process or desicion making I have to do when choosing this node over that node when clicking.

Please correct me if i'm wrong , but I don't see the "gameplay" in the minigame.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#164 - 2013-05-29 14:55:09 UTC
Midnight Hope wrote:
I finally hacked a few times yesterday. To be honest the whole thing feels...random. And I am not talking about the loot pinata at the end.

The hacking games itself lacks strategy and purpose. There seems to be no actual strategy to all the clicking. You just click on all the nodes until you hit the core. There is no reason I would click this node or that node, They all look the same and they all feel the same. From that perspective I just have to keep clicking nodes, it doesn't matter the order or sequence or position they are in.
Ther eis no thought process or desicion making I have to do when choosing this node over that node when clicking.

Please correct me if i'm wrong , but I don't see the "gameplay" in the minigame.



you can click around a firewall if you actually can, but that's it for now.

i really hope to see some more depth in this in a future release
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#165 - 2013-05-29 15:01:33 UTC
Midnight Hope wrote:
I finally hacked a few times yesterday. To be honest the whole thing feels...random. And I am not talking about the loot pinata at the end.

The hacking games itself lacks strategy and purpose. There seems to be no actual strategy to all the clicking. You just click on all the nodes until you hit the core. There is no reason I would click this node or that node, They all look the same and they all feel the same. From that perspective I just have to keep clicking nodes, it doesn't matter the order or sequence or position they are in.
Ther eis no thought process or desicion making I have to do when choosing this node over that node when clicking.

Please correct me if i'm wrong , but I don't see the "gameplay" in the minigame.
Yeah it is pretty limited, but there is a miniscule amount of strategy involved in building your lines out in order to minimize the impact of Firewalls etc. It's mostly common sense, but yeah, other than that it's just "click everything'. They say it will be "iterated on Soon(tm)".
Sheena Tzash
Doomheim
#166 - 2013-05-29 15:11:08 UTC
CCP Prime wrote:
So for the scattering mechanism we've reduced the speed that the cans eject out at.
It'll make chasing them almost unneeded.
Crimewatch will now apply to the cans like as with any other loot.
The mini container names will actually hint at what you can get from them (currently on SiSi it is a completely random association.) This will help deciding on what loot you are actually going for.

Also, a few bugs, like the one when the bracket disappears for a container that had started to blink, has been fixed.

We want to iterate on tying hacking success to the scattering, and hopefully we'll be able to do so in a point release.


1) If the speed is much slower now is it actually possible to get 100% of the ejected loot?
2) If the cans are now named will they show on the overview or will you have to spend time mousing over each can to find out whats in it before you click it?
Nicola Arman
Deep Maw Salvage
#167 - 2013-05-29 15:19:53 UTC
Is Loot really the only difference between the new Relic and Data sites?

Both are the same minigame??
Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#168 - 2013-05-29 15:36:48 UTC
Salpun wrote:
CCP Prime wrote:
So for the scattering mechanism we've reduced the speed that the cans eject out at.
It'll make chasing them almost unneeded.
Crimewatch will now apply to the cans like as with any other loot.
The mini container names will actually hint at what you can get from them (currently on SiSi it is a completely random association.) This will help deciding on what loot you are actually going for.

Also, a few bugs, like the one when the bracket disappears for a container that had started to blink, has been fixed.

We want to iterate on tying hacking success to the scattering, and hopefully we'll be able to do so in a point release.

Looks better. Great job.


CCP LISTENING to the forums?

CCP Prime is now my Developer Jesus.
CCP Prime
C C P
C C P Alliance
#169 - 2013-05-29 15:44:43 UTC
Sheena Tzash wrote:
CCP Prime wrote:
So for the scattering mechanism we've reduced the speed that the cans eject out at.
It'll make chasing them almost unneeded.
Crimewatch will now apply to the cans like as with any other loot.
The mini container names will actually hint at what you can get from them (currently on SiSi it is a completely random association.) This will help deciding on what loot you are actually going for.

Also, a few bugs, like the one when the bracket disappears for a container that had started to blink, has been fixed.

We want to iterate on tying hacking success to the scattering, and hopefully we'll be able to do so in a point release.


1) If the speed is much slower now is it actually possible to get 100% of the ejected loot?
2) If the cans are now named will they show on the overview or will you have to spend time mousing over each can to find out whats in it before you click it?


1) No. By design a one player is never meant to be able to catch all cans. Hence the constant take time and the expiring of stuff.
2) They still will not show on the overview. We want players to actually use our space view. It is a challenge in 3D based decision making and for CCP it is a challenge to improve whatever needs improving when you have to deal with things directly in space.

Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks 2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 ...
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#170 - 2013-05-29 15:48:31 UTC
Nubchucker wrote:
I was pretty excited when I first read about the changes.

Finally I can do hacking/arch/exploration in an all in one ship \o/.

Imagine my disappointment to find T1 ships have a bonus to virus strength and T2 doesn't.

Basically due to the new hacking rigs etc I STILL need 2 ships.. A covert ops to scan the sites down and a T1 to run the site.

Seems stupid to me



Yeah, imagine that, CCP not actually testing something. Never happens though...ever...

Also, on a side note...don't those same T1 hulls have a drone bay, to...i don't know....defend themselves...whereas, the T2 hulls...ummm...don't??!?!?!

Again with the boneheaded 'designing while in a very small single minded box' ideas that somehow escape reason.


Also, planing on doing anything about the sites uber-stacked objects melting video cards? If it ships as its current form, i know a few ppl whose GFX cards WILL get damaged by heat if they attempt to do one of these new shiney great idea sites.

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
CCP Bayesian
#171 - 2013-05-29 15:49:58 UTC
With respect to the Hacking strategy itself there are definite strategies that are not entirely obvious that allow you to be much more successful as it currently stands. Clicking randomly is provably less successful than applying some thought.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2013-05-29 15:50:00 UTC
How will you Handle loot distribution in the scattered cans? As of right now they is a lot junk and only a few with treasure, a cargo scanner on the hacking container reveals what is in there and how much stuff is in there, this confirms that only a few cans will be worth grabbing.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#173 - 2013-05-29 15:52:59 UTC
CCP Prime wrote:
Sheena Tzash wrote:
CCP Prime wrote:
So for the scattering mechanism we've reduced the speed that the cans eject out at.
It'll make chasing them almost unneeded.
Crimewatch will now apply to the cans like as with any other loot.
The mini container names will actually hint at what you can get from them (currently on SiSi it is a completely random association.) This will help deciding on what loot you are actually going for.

Also, a few bugs, like the one when the bracket disappears for a container that had started to blink, has been fixed.

We want to iterate on tying hacking success to the scattering, and hopefully we'll be able to do so in a point release.


1) If the speed is much slower now is it actually possible to get 100% of the ejected loot?
2) If the cans are now named will they show on the overview or will you have to spend time mousing over each can to find out whats in it before you click it?


1) No. By design a one player is never meant to be able to catch all cans. Hence the constant take time and the expiring of stuff.
2) They still will not show on the overview. We want players to actually use our space view. It is a challenge in 3D based decision making and for CCP it is a challenge to improve whatever needs improving when you have to deal with things directly in space.

Maybe we need "sticky mice". That is the pointer starts following things I set it on. Sort of like sticky aiming in Dust.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Sheena Tzash
Doomheim
#174 - 2013-05-29 16:00:17 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
With respect to the Hacking strategy itself there are definite strategies that are not entirely obvious that allow you to be much more successful as it currently stands. Clicking randomly is provably less successful than applying some thought.


What thought can really be applied? What feedback do we get from the mini game that says any combination of nodes or lines is better than any other?

YOU know that its better because you've been involved in the development of the mini game, but we don't and without any feedback to tell us "that was good, keep doing it" or "this is a bad idea, try something else" the only thought we have left is "click nodes randomly"

My approach is generally keep clicking down a line until I hit a firewall and then try another path - but again I don't have a clear objective or node to activate to know HOW to win the mini game - so any prospect of thought or strategy is pretty much redundant when the success conditions are random and unknown.
CCP Prime
C C P
C C P Alliance
#175 - 2013-05-29 16:05:48 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Prime
Vincent Athena wrote:
Maybe we need "sticky mice". That is the pointer starts following things I set it on. Sort of like sticky aiming in Dust.


Indeed, we've already (not out on SiSi though) changed it so that the command to take happens when the mouse button goes down as opposed to up.

If we get to iterate, ideas like a magnetic mouse, bracket selection prediction etc are on the table because they would improve the eve experience not only for this feature, but for the game in general.

Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks 2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 ...
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2013-05-29 16:08:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
CCP Prime wrote:
Quote:
Maybe we need "sticky mice". That is the pointer starts following things I set it on. Sort of like sticky aiming in Dust.


Indeed, we've already (not out on SiSi though) changed it so that the command to take happens when the mouse button goes down as opposed to up.

If we get to iterate, ideas like a magnetic mouse, bracket selection prediction etc are on the table because they would improve the eve experience not only for this feature, but for the game in general.



any chance for a "freeze brackets" button ? much like STRG did with the overview some time ago
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#177 - 2013-05-29 16:15:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Johan Toralen
The loot spewing out slower doesn't that make one problem worse while improving on another? Personaly i have a problem especially right in the beginning when all cans are close to each other to pick the right can that i want or not by accident clicking on something else like the containers or whatever else stuff is floating around there. It's also so that the mouse control feel way more clunky and not updating correctly when cans are on top of each other. It would have been better to tweak the range and the speed of the tractor instead.

The refusal to put the cans in the overview is frankly bs in my opinion. It's inconsistent with the whole rest of the game and whatever you do it will put some players in disadvantage, might it be through screen size, control method, health issues or whatever.
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#178 - 2013-05-29 16:18:58 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
With respect to the Hacking strategy itself there are definite strategies that are not entirely obvious that allow you to be much more successful as it currently stands. Clicking randomly is provably less successful than applying some thought.


That being the case, there's still no feedback to the player that tells him if he is doing something better than the last time or not.

- Do you mean that the number and location of firewalls is not predefined when the graphs is initially presented?

- Do you mean that by clicking the nodes in a different sequence I will find more or less firewalls in different spots?

- Do you mean the strength of those firewalls changes depending on the sequence and location of nodes I click?

Even if this is the case and no feedback is still not presented to the player, it will be good to know.
As it stands now it seems to me that we are only uncovering nodes that have already been preset and configured when the graph is built in the first place.

If the layout is truly dynamic and get built and decided as the player goes along, it would be nice to have some kind of overall indicator on our performance,. It could be a simple "system integrity" indicator in green-yellow-red that tells us how well we are doing or if we are digging ourselves in a hole.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#179 - 2013-05-29 16:20:57 UTC
Got an easy one ( kinda off topic though), did the mirror every happen?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#180 - 2013-05-29 16:23:15 UTC
Heinel Coventina wrote:


What is CCP's plan to introduce new players into exploration, a gameplay mechanic that has no parallels from other MMOs, hence unfamiliar, and,

What is CCP doing to mitigate disappointments during this transitional period between phasing out the old passive system and a highly integrated play style?



There is a new Exploration career tutorial, I gave my feedback about it here.