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Feedback for Hacking/Archaeology feature from 27/5/13 onward

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Author
Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
#661 - 2014-01-21 13:34:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Cryo Kool
Rivr Luzade wrote:
. Again Cargo Scanners are mandatory. If you don't cargo scan the hackable container, don't complain that you miss out on loot.


Since you are using two mid slots already (scanner, analyzer), why didn't you ever use two analyzers before the minigame? 2 T2 analyzers meant I rarely ever went more than a single cycle without a can opening. The only thing that has changed for me is that there are 50 more clicks involved and I now miss half my loot while alone. The loot tables for the sites I run were not updated to account for the fact that you now miss half the containers. The high value drops in those sites do not follow the mini container naming convention either. Opening in excess of 3000 containers in those sites while using two toons has extensively verified that the high value item appears in a random can.

I suppose this could be a marketing ploy by CCP, as I now have no choice but to keep my 2nd account subscribed to maintain my pre-minigame income in those sites.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#662 - 2014-01-21 14:45:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Cryo Kool wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
. Again Cargo Scanners are mandatory. If you don't cargo scan the hackable container, don't complain that you miss out on loot.


Since you are using two mid slots already (scanner, analyzer), why didn't you ever use two analyzers before the minigame? 2 T2 analyzers meant I rarely ever went more than a single cycle without a can opening. The only thing that has changed for me is that there are 50 more clicks involved and I now miss half my loot while alone. The loot tables for the sites I run were not updated to account for the fact that you now miss half the containers. The high value drops in those sites do not follow the mini container naming convention either. Opening in excess of 3000 containers in those sites while using two toons has extensively verified that the high value item appears in a random can.

I suppose this could be a marketing ploy by CCP, as I now have no choice but to keep my 2nd account subscribed to maintain my pre-minigame income in those sites.


Before I was lucky if I survived certain Data/Relic sites and used the mids of my Tengu for tank instead of analyzing power. I also had and still don't have 2 chars for that job, it is absolutely not necessary. I also still don't have T2 analyzer nor plan to have in the near future, simply because T1 is sufficient in all cases except for W-space. Also, to my shame I have to admit that I didn't know Cargo Scanners worked on those cans until Odyssey, but then again it was pointless anyways before Ody to scan them.

I also don't understand how you can miss half of the scatter cans. My rate is 100% in most sites and only very rarely drops down to 80% when I am unlucky with the spew direction. Other than that I concentrate only on those cans that are of value to me and leave all the rest aside. The drops always follow the same simple pattern (for now): everything good is only and exclusively in Parts Cans, with the exception for the rare Faction BPC in Data Cans; the only good stuff in Relic Sites is in Parts and Material cans, where the T2/T1 distribution can vary a bit, with the exception for the rare Faction BPC in Data Cans. What is so difficult with it to only tractor these cans in and ignore the other cans?

If there was even more loot in the cans, prices would only drop even further and decrease your income per site more.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#663 - 2014-01-22 23:27:09 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
The drops always follow the same simple pattern (for now): everything good is only and exclusively in Parts Cans, with the exception for the rare Faction BPC in Data Cans; the only good stuff in Relic Sites is in Parts and Material cans, where the T2/T1 distribution can vary a bit, with the exception for the rare Faction BPC in Data Cans. What is so difficult with it to only tractor these cans in and ignore the other cans?
COSMOS sites use a slightly different mechanic. As he stated numerous times. It is completely random which can the loot shows up in - maybe it's in Parts this time, maybe it's Data, maybe it's Scraps. You just don't know. Hence, his frustration.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#664 - 2014-01-23 08:09:00 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
The drops always follow the same simple pattern (for now): everything good is only and exclusively in Parts Cans, with the exception for the rare Faction BPC in Data Cans; the only good stuff in Relic Sites is in Parts and Material cans, where the T2/T1 distribution can vary a bit, with the exception for the rare Faction BPC in Data Cans. What is so difficult with it to only tractor these cans in and ignore the other cans?
COSMOS sites use a slightly different mechanic. As he stated numerous times. It is completely random which can the loot shows up in - maybe it's in Parts this time, maybe it's Data, maybe it's Scraps. You just don't know. Hence, his frustration.


You are right, I have skipped this COSMOS part for some reason, and I have to admit that have not yet tried COSMOS sites. I think, however, that this random spawn is intended by CCP, since they are special sites. Has CCP already rejected a bug report regarding these sites?
Also, have you tried the Poteque 'Prospector' Environmental Analysis EY-1005? It certainly does not solve the problem with the random appearing of the item, but 5 seconds more time before the cans decay can be quite valuable.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Cryo Kool
Tax Holiday
#665 - 2014-02-01 10:09:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Cryo Kool
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
The drops always follow the same simple pattern (for now): everything good is only and exclusively in Parts Cans, with the exception for the rare Faction BPC in Data Cans; the only good stuff in Relic Sites is in Parts and Material cans, where the T2/T1 distribution can vary a bit, with the exception for the rare Faction BPC in Data Cans. What is so difficult with it to only tractor these cans in and ignore the other cans?
COSMOS sites use a slightly different mechanic. As he stated numerous times. It is completely random which can the loot shows up in - maybe it's in Parts this time, maybe it's Data, maybe it's Scraps. You just don't know. Hence, his frustration.


You are right, I have skipped this COSMOS part for some reason, and I have to admit that have not yet tried COSMOS sites. I think, however, that this random spawn is intended by CCP, since they are special sites. Has CCP already rejected a bug report regarding these sites?
Also, have you tried the Poteque 'Prospector' Environmental Analysis EY-1005? It certainly does not solve the problem with the random appearing of the item, but 5 seconds more time before the cans decay can be quite valuable.


Yes, I have and use the implant. I assure you my technique is flawless with collecting the scatter cans. The simple fact is, it spews ~15 mini cans in cosmos sites. There is no way for a single player to get more than ~60% of the cans even with the implant. The can loot tables did not change with the addition of the mini game. Site income has as a result dropped 40-50% for a solo player. I do not believe this was an intended effect; more like an unfortunate side effect. This is most obvious when you read the threads about the static cosmos sites completely disappearing after someone accessed a can inside the complex for ~1 week during the initial Odyssey patches. The drop rate of "technology" skill books has also dramatically increased. One specific site used to have 4 cans which could produce a tech book, which only occurred about once every 45 minutes. That book sold for 180 mill. Now, that same site produces a book in 11 cans, every time, every 15 minutes. This means instead of 1 book every 45 minutes it produces 33 in 45 minutes. That book now sells for 1 million isk. It does not make sense that they would dramatically increase the book supply while at the same time reducing the parts supply related to that book by half.
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#666 - 2014-02-03 18:08:19 UTC
The hacking minigame is just a game of chance, blined clicking and brute force, which does not create any meaningful/rewarding feedback.

To improve the game, show people where the core (the goal) at the beginning and make it a game about navigating a booby-traped to get to the core.
Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#667 - 2014-02-03 18:18:33 UTC
Biggest issue with loot spew is that there is no way to differentiate can-types without mousing over them first. I have to mouse over all the cans constantly to make sure I grabbed all the 'parts' cans, etc. Can scatter containers (the ones you pickup, not the ones you hack) be added to the overview? this would go a long way to making collection easier. Auto-locking overview will help ensure misclicks are few and far between.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#668 - 2014-02-18 18:27:35 UTC
Bumping for GREAT JUSTICE and the hope that some day, in some way, CCP will correct the horrible things they did to exploration.

Never forgive, never forget!
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#669 - 2014-02-19 15:03:45 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Eraza wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


Yay, and then it turns you just clicked on the garbage can, of them all... Lol

Anyway I haven't seen anyone suggest that hisec exploration is a good career for noobs, and I doubt it was intended to be such. Both SP and money wise, everything else hisec is more profitable.


that's a point though, it's hard(sp wise) AND pointless, um, why is it there then?
surely it's SUPPOSED to be worth the time for SOMEONE?
i'm thinking some balance changes elsewere messed it up


I think that it was modified as something people does on top of something else. On its own it's a dirt poor activity unless you already are living in lowsec/nullsec and have access to worthier exploration content just because you're there.

I can't picture anyone bothering to go out of hisec just to find better exploration content.

even in low there is no point running those, you will make better isk just ratting 5 belts or any combat anom

the current explo is bad, minigame is god awefull, the loot bukkake is terrible design and it doesn't grant any kind of isk.

highsec ones are worst, and WH are clearly not worth the time since the loot is less valuable now, there are still rats in them, and there are still as many container
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
#670 - 2014-02-21 03:59:22 UTC
I love the mini-game (not the loot collection, that is terrible, but the concept of a mini-game is great). It's better than sitting there waiting for random failure chance on a modules cycle

People have been begging for AGES to give a more "involved" gameplay to tasks that are otherwise left to "activate module and wait".

Everyone's solution to AFK miners and botters is to give them something simple yet requiring human intervention to do.
Imagine if mining required a similar mini-game where you had to navigate around the very dense asteroid spots to get to the ore.

Everyone's solution to AFK cloakers is to give them something to do that requires someone present at the computer.
Imagine is the cloaking module required a similar mini-game where you have to re-route cooling around your systems to keep the cloak engaged.

Hell, even Battleclinic has this new "flash-mini-game" captcha that is simple yet requires a human to do.

This is great to prevent all sorts of AFK and botters. People have been begging CCP for something like this. CCP is doing a trial-run on exploration, and now you all ***** and moan

Yes, drops could be better. Yes, the loot collection could be better. But the mini-game is just what EvE needs.
SghnDubh
BattleClinic
#671 - 2014-02-22 14:30:30 UTC
Minigames need variety. I cannot stand playing the same mini-game repeatedly. Mass Effect 2 is the perfect example of how NOT to do it.
Jinn Aideron
#672 - 2014-03-05 19:41:35 UTC
Hacking minigame is fun, nicely tiered in difficulty, and while bad luck can get the better of you, it's far from being a dice-roll.

It is probabilistic. And you increase your chances with in-game and out-of-game skills, and strategy. Hence, it is as it should be.


As for the loot spew, I always thought this added a nice touch of flying skills and spatial awareness to the task. Even motivates you to revisit your fit, and maybe allow for more agility in it. Which is a good thing, allowing players to specialize and be better at a task than others. Enabling player choice.

Now, one can have an argument if two different skill sets, logic of the minigame and flying+spatial skills, should be hardwired together for players to only succeed if they bring both. I'd say, that's valid game design, but it's up for personal preferences. Who doesn't enjoy easy-moding once in a while. But disentangling this will take away from the game.


So, good job on the current mechanics, sans unintentional fallout for cosmos and such which can be corrected for, unhappy to see it reduced in the future.

Cheers.

Stealth deletes are bad.

seth Hendar
I love you miners
#673 - 2014-03-07 14:32:04 UTC
hydraSlav wrote:
I love the mini-game (not the loot collection, that is terrible, but the concept of a mini-game is great). It's better than sitting there waiting for random failure chance on a modules cycle

People have been begging for AGES to give a more "involved" gameplay to tasks that are otherwise left to "activate module and wait".

Everyone's solution to AFK miners and botters is to give them something simple yet requiring human intervention to do.
Imagine if mining required a similar mini-game where you had to navigate around the very dense asteroid spots to get to the ore.

Everyone's solution to AFK cloakers is to give them something to do that requires someone present at the computer.
Imagine is the cloaking module required a similar mini-game where you have to re-route cooling around your systems to keep the cloak engaged.

Hell, even Battleclinic has this new "flash-mini-game" captcha that is simple yet requires a human to do.

This is great to prevent all sorts of AFK and botters. People have been begging CCP for something like this. CCP is doing a trial-run on exploration, and now you all ***** and moan

Yes, drops could be better. Yes, the loot collection could be better. But the mini-game is just what EvE needs.

so CCP answer to something ppl ask is to not deliver it where ppl want, and kill one of the only thing that was working and player never complained about, ruining month of training and subs.


how clever.....