These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Issues, Workarounds & Localization

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The new launcher and the web server issues on the 21st of May: FAQ and update thread

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Hagbard Solaris
Omega Eternal
#561 - 2013-05-27 15:07:09 UTC
Zifrian wrote:
CCP TheRambler wrote:
Hi, the autoplay feature has been released this Friday actually. If you don't see the checkbox in the right bottom corner or if it doesn't seem to work, please clear the cache and try again :)

This completely misses the point imo. Why do we even need to click play to login? Is there a reason for this "feature"?


With the new SSO protocol, it would conceivably be possible to login on the launcher and gate directly from the launcher to various sites in the Eve universe like Account Management or Forums or Eve Gate without having to log in at any of these sites. For example, you could login on the launcher, click Account Management to see how long until your account needs to be renewed, click Forums to check threads, then click Play to actually enter the game.
In practice, however, this does not work. CCP said that while the launcher uses SSO, it initiates a browser session internally. So, when you click on one of the Eve Universe links like Account Management, it has to open a new browser session and can't pass the SSO information along. Kinda undermines the whole purpose of SSO imho.

What if New Eden was a virtual prison and we're convicts in a prison pod somehwere?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#562 - 2013-05-27 15:17:34 UTC
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
Zifrian wrote:
CCP TheRambler wrote:
Hi, the autoplay feature has been released this Friday actually. If you don't see the checkbox in the right bottom corner or if it doesn't seem to work, please clear the cache and try again :)

This completely misses the point imo. Why do we even need to click play to login? Is there a reason for this "feature"?


With the new SSO protocol, it would conceivably be possible to login on the launcher and gate directly from the launcher to various sites in the Eve universe like Account Management or Forums or Eve Gate without having to log in at any of these sites. For example, you could login on the launcher, click Account Management to see how long until your account needs to be renewed, click Forums to check threads, then click Play to actually enter the game.
In practice, however, this does not work. CCP said that while the launcher uses SSO, it initiates a browser session internally. So, when you click on one of the Eve Universe links like Account Management, it has to open a new browser session and can't pass the SSO information along. Kinda undermines the whole purpose of SSO imho.



It could be passed over to a new application, with a properly formed URL.

Just not the world's best idea.

Think about it this way though:
They have to maintain /one/ login method, rather than one for sites, one for the application.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Ganric Nelkin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#563 - 2013-05-27 15:23:58 UTC

I haven't been able to access the game since Tuesdays update. After trying every workaround, reinstalling, reinstalling but not updating just running from exefile.exe and even trying my spare router, I decided to give it one last shot and install wireshark.

Looking at packet logs the only conclusion I can reach is that my IP address is being dropped, somewhere along the line, by the sever (the dreaded socket closed that keeps showing in eve logs)!!

This is my latest reply to my petitions:

"Hello,

I just thought I would try a VPN as a last resort and I can login immediately!!!!
It would appear that my own (static) IP address *.*.*.* is being dropped by tranquility!
I can authenticate and initiate a connection just fine, but when my client tries to PSH,ACK 92 bytes of data using my own IP I never get a reply. After seven retries my client sends a RST,ACK and disconnects."

I'm completely stumped at this.
Hagbard Solaris
Omega Eternal
#564 - 2013-05-27 16:02:56 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
Zifrian wrote:
CCP TheRambler wrote:
Hi, the autoplay feature has been released this Friday actually. If you don't see the checkbox in the right bottom corner or if it doesn't seem to work, please clear the cache and try again :)

This completely misses the point imo. Why do we even need to click play to login? Is there a reason for this "feature"?


With the new SSO protocol, it would conceivably be possible to login on the launcher and gate directly from the launcher to various sites in the Eve universe like Account Management or Forums or Eve Gate without having to log in at any of these sites. For example, you could login on the launcher, click Account Management to see how long until your account needs to be renewed, click Forums to check threads, then click Play to actually enter the game.
In practice, however, this does not work. CCP said that while the launcher uses SSO, it initiates a browser session internally. So, when you click on one of the Eve Universe links like Account Management, it has to open a new browser session and can't pass the SSO information along. Kinda undermines the whole purpose of SSO imho.



It could be passed over to a new application, with a properly formed URL.

Just not the world's best idea.

Think about it this way though:
They have to maintain /one/ login method, rather than one for sites, one for the application.

Thanks, Steve. That actually makes sense. If I am reading these forums correctly, CCP is now storing userdata on their cloud. I am not real familiar with how cloud storage works in application, so I have a question. Would it be possible for the launcher to open a new browser to other Eve sites, have that new browser retrieve the account name from the cloud, and ask for a password re-entry to verify the user? This would add end-user funtionality and match other online services that require password verification for security purposes. It would also make the autoplay checkbox a useful option as the player could decide if they wanted to simply launch the game or use the launcher as a gateway to other Eve services as well.

What if New Eden was a virtual prison and we're convicts in a prison pod somehwere?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#565 - 2013-05-27 16:11:11 UTC
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Hagbard Solaris wrote:
Zifrian wrote:
CCP TheRambler wrote:
Hi, the autoplay feature has been released this Friday actually. If you don't see the checkbox in the right bottom corner or if it doesn't seem to work, please clear the cache and try again :)

This completely misses the point imo. Why do we even need to click play to login? Is there a reason for this "feature"?


With the new SSO protocol, it would conceivably be possible to login on the launcher and gate directly from the launcher to various sites in the Eve universe like Account Management or Forums or Eve Gate without having to log in at any of these sites. For example, you could login on the launcher, click Account Management to see how long until your account needs to be renewed, click Forums to check threads, then click Play to actually enter the game.
In practice, however, this does not work. CCP said that while the launcher uses SSO, it initiates a browser session internally. So, when you click on one of the Eve Universe links like Account Management, it has to open a new browser session and can't pass the SSO information along. Kinda undermines the whole purpose of SSO imho.



It could be passed over to a new application, with a properly formed URL.

Just not the world's best idea.

Think about it this way though:
They have to maintain /one/ login method, rather than one for sites, one for the application.

Thanks, Steve. That actually makes sense. If I am reading these forums correctly, CCP is now storing userdata on their cloud. I am not real familiar with how cloud storage works in application, so I have a question. Would it be possible for the launcher to open a new browser to other Eve sites, have that new browser retrieve the account name from the cloud, and ask for a password re-entry to verify the user? This would add end-user funtionality and match other online services that require password verification for security purposes. It would also make the autoplay checkbox a useful option as the player could decide if they wanted to simply launch the game or use the launcher as a gateway to other Eve services as well.



Yes.

This is commonly the way that OAUTH(2) is handled. You have to register a new protocol for the callback, but it's common.

It's bad practice (for a third party app. The launcher isn't third party) to embed a browser instance and run it from there.

Note, it'd be more annoying to do it this way, if you had multiple accounts.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#566 - 2013-05-27 16:38:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
@Above

In the future I don't want some crapola game log in that fiddles with the forums. I want to post on this character while I log in with at least 12 different characters per day. I also use the forums a lot to see if I got in game mail. If they start switching it'll be just the umpteenth loss in functionality they impose on us.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#567 - 2013-05-27 17:40:47 UTC
Par'Gellen wrote:


However, on the other side of the coin, I've dealt with CCP's dev antics since 2003 and after a while people reach a point where they realize nothing they are saying is even being heard. When that happens they begin to shout. When shouting fails they start throwing things. And I can tell you from years of reading these forums that nothing CCP can do will **** off the playerbase faster than ignoring feedback and then implementing something that looks like it was coded by someone that has never even played the game. (Uniborked Inventory stands out like a flaming beacon as a prime example) That is disrespectful to their paying customers, plain and simple, and in my opinion is like asking to be yelled at.



^^^^ This

I can deal with most of the crap they roll out, things ill never use (AUR for example). but when they break stuff after being repeatedly told for over 12 months (march 2012 was the first launcher blog)why it will break mine and other peoples game. its the straw that broke the camels back

OMG when can i get a pic here
Hagbard Solaris
Omega Eternal
#568 - 2013-05-27 18:31:16 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
@Above

In the future I don't want some crapola game log in that fiddles with the forums. I want to post on this character while I log in with at least 12 different characters per day. I also use the forums a lot to see if I got in game mail. If they start switching it'll be just the umpteenth loss in functionality they impose on us.

I wasn't proposing that it "fiddle" with the forums, only that it retrieve username info and ask for password verification if you open a browser using the link on the launcher. You could swich toons all you want using the launcher, but if you didn't use the launcher to open the forums, your logged in toon wouldn't be logged out. Open a browser window any other way than using the launcher and nothing would change. That's how a good update works. Preserve all existing functionality and add new functionality - in this case the ability by choice to save a step with the account currently logged onto the launcher.

What if New Eden was a virtual prison and we're convicts in a prison pod somehwere?
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#569 - 2013-05-27 20:47:07 UTC
Just updated my post with the known issues; there are more fixes in testing on Singularity.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#570 - 2013-05-27 21:02:17 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Just updated my post with the known issues; there are more fixes in testing on Singularity.



now if you could.

get the log off button back. it needs to be able to log of the client, restart the launcher and get me back to the point when I can hot key my password, hit enter and get to the selector screen.

this would just about get my 3 click log in/swap alt process back. and above all else, stop me having to leave running any launchers just to swap alts.

OMG when can i get a pic here
Aghira
Systech Astromantics Shipyard Inc.
#571 - 2013-05-27 21:06:34 UTC
Passwordfield still loses focus after a taskswitch thus rendering the autotype feature of keepass unusable if you have the login credentials of multiple accounts stored in keepass.

Es wird niemals so viel gelogen wie vor der Wahl, während des Krieges und nach der Jagd. (Otto von Bismarck)

english is not my native language.
Jonuts
The Arrow Project
#572 - 2013-05-27 21:21:06 UTC
Just answer this. *WHY*.

It was sold around the concept of SSO, yet you can't implement SSO. As you said, I can't log into a service in Firefox and expect it to work in Chrome. Personally, I'd feel extremely uncomfortable if you screwed with my machine enough to allow actual SSO functionality. So what was the purpose of the new launcher? If you're fixing what isn't broke, it should be to upgrade it. New launcher is arguably a downgrade, at best a side grade for the majority. Do you have that little to work on that you throw man power at side-grade projects? Was this something a few programmers were thrown at between major projects?

Honestly, the entire concept of upgrading the launcher is irrelevant.

Lastly, what purpose does removing our ability to log in via the bin folder at some unspecified time in the future serve? Upset that someone finds greater functionality with it? Can't be to save space. Hard drive space is cheap, and the file isn't exactly huge. Neatness? That's like uninstalling seat belts from your car because they don't color coordinate with your shoes. As long the game doesn't need to update at that moment, launching via the bin file is far superior to any other method of launching the game I've ever seen. With what I know, removing the ability to launch via the bin file is just a jerk move, pure and simple. Done with intent of nothing but making people sad, because there teems to be no other reason.
Sarmatiko
#573 - 2013-05-27 21:45:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
Jonuts wrote:
Lastly, what purpose does removing our ability to log in via the bin folder at some unspecified time in the future serve?

Removing this because it takes too much developer time to maintain this feature, as known from other dev posts. Probably this includes not only per-expansion assets like scene and new music, but also some stuff in the backend invisible to end user.

On the other hand some CCP decisions on which feature consider worthy, and which just deserves to be axed are very questionable. When some guys from GARPA (as was stated on reddit) leaked "new ship/skill three UI" prototype I was kinda enraged "WTF? Is that thing is worthy of spending resources and jukebox/calculator/notepad/login screen are not?"
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#574 - 2013-05-27 21:53:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Smoking Blunts
Sarmatiko wrote:
Jonuts wrote:
Lastly, what purpose does removing our ability to log in via the bin folder at some unspecified time in the future serve?

Removing this because it takes too much developer time to maintain this feature, as known from other dev posts. Probably this includes not only per-expansion assets like scene and new music, but also some stuff in the backend invisible to end user.

On the other hand some CCP decisions on which feature consider worthy, and which just deserves to be axed are very questionable. When some guys from GARPA (as was stated of reddit) leaked "new ship/skill three UI" prototype I was kinda enraged "WTF? Is that thing is worthy of spending resources and jukebox/calculator/notepad/login screen are not?"



the sisi version of the bin folder isn't specific and only shows what looks like a default eve online backdrop. also eve dosnt have sound so no idea what the music is like, id guess they can recycle all the old stuffs for the next few years and it will cost them nothing more than a file swap

OMG when can i get a pic here
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#575 - 2013-05-27 23:37:45 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Just updated my post with the known issues; there are more fixes in testing on Singularity.
I find it cute that you're still fixing bugs when the design of the launcher makes itself a bug, in need of workarounds.
Could you please address the design flaw/bug in your OPs?
MaRU2760 133
Unit 439
#576 - 2013-05-28 00:50:46 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Just updated my post with the known issues; there are more fixes in testing on Singularity.


Now you are testing them? In Singularity?

If you don't look at the feedback', what good does that do us?
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#577 - 2013-05-28 06:42:51 UTC
Par'Gellen wrote:
However, on the other side of the coin, I've dealt with CCP's dev antics since 2003 and after a while people reach a point where they realize nothing they are saying is even being heard. When that happens they begin to shout. When shouting fails they start throwing things. And I can tell you from years of reading these forums that nothing CCP can do will **** off the playerbase faster than ignoring feedback and then implementing something that looks like it was coded by someone that has never even played the game. (Uniborked Inventory stands out like a flaming beacon as a prime example) That is disrespectful to their paying customers, plain and simple, and in my opinion is like asking to be yelled at.


THIS. Absolutely.

Years of suffering CCP’s continued insistence of ignoring player feedback from SISI and bringing in half-developed crap, tends to wear you down. I used to spend a lot of time giving such feedback, but since the CQ, and then the Unified Inventory disaster, I do not bother any more, as they do what they want anyway.

It is a shame as they are continually screwing OUR game up with their half-arsed ideas and ill-conceived development work.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#578 - 2013-05-28 06:45:35 UTC
Jake ClouD wrote:
Thank you for the skill points. More than makes up for the login complications. :)

The posting and tone in this thread by some players...seems wrongly self-entitled. I understand the frustration when things aren't perfect or go wrong, but it doesn't warrant rudeness towards [real] people doing their jobs with the best intentions. Instead of cynicism and aggression, a little bit of appreciation and optimism helps to cultivate a better community and better experiences for everyone who has to work on and play the game.

There's no us and them, everyone contributes to the development of the game and it's why EVE is so good, because CCP value and act upon feedback and suggestions wherever they can feasibly. You pay for a game which you enjoy playing and much of that money goes towards improving the experience. Yes, there's still going to be things that you don't like, but constructive criticism and feedback is better than grumpy whinging and demands.

TL;DR,
Don't be grumpy neck-beards. Pirate


You, Sir...are an idiot.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#579 - 2013-05-28 06:52:30 UTC
Still skipping it....


Rommiee wrote:
CCP: Skipping awkward questions since 2003...AND STILL DOING IT...


Rommiee wrote:
CCP.....HELLO

Still skipping this question, then.....


Rommiee wrote:
CCP Atropos or any CCP employee, really.....

Still skipping this question of why do you do what is outlined below, then ?


Rommiee wrote:
So... would you like to answer the question that pretty much everyone has been asking over the last couple of days, but you have avoided :

Time and time again, you introduce a new "feature" on to Sisi, and when major issues are found by the players testing the said feature, you pretty much ignore the feedback given to you and bring it on to TQ anyway.

You always apologise afterwards and promise to do things better in the future, but surprise surprise it happens again, and again, and again. You never seem to learn by past mistakes and never keep your word about changing your procedures.

Therefore do not be surprised when we do not believe a word you say.

Quote:
Your voices have been heard loud and clear and we've been busy taking notes so we'd like to ask you to help us move forward in this thread and keep the feedback focused and constructive. Thank you


We have heard that so many times,
Twikki
The Rusty Muskets
#580 - 2013-05-28 06:54:19 UTC
Not sure if this is the right place to make this comment. After finally getting the launcher to work as i want it to, i now ask the question.

What are the chances, when you go to log out/quit it gives you 2 options

1. to quit the game
2. retrun to character screen

This way you dont have to quit the game and re log in each time you wwant to swap characters