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Issues, Workarounds & Localization

 
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The new launcher and the web server issues on the 21st of May: FAQ and update thread

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Balder Verdandi
Wormhole Sterilization Crew
#361 - 2013-05-25 06:10:30 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
Niding wrote:
CCP Guard;

For me the issue isnt being able to log in, but the ackward mechanic of logging on multiple accounts.

As I (and many others) have said repeatedly; the new launcher is so user UNfriendly and slow that we ONLY use EXEFILE to log on directly.
Remove that ability and force us to use the new launcher in its current unfriendly state will probarly lead to new threadnaughts.


That is noted and I hope you trust that it is our common interest to make sure that logging into EVE and playing EVE is a good experience.




CCP Guard.


Where is my "good experience" for both logging into and playing Eve?

The point here is .... the new launcher isn't a good experience and it's part of playing Eve.

I've tried to be objective about it but when the updates failed, the repair tool loops endlessly, the "start up/shut down/restart" of the launcher didn't fix my issues with losing settings/overview on 4 accounts (seven characters), and multi-boxing is now more resource intensive and a chore to do, explain to me and everyone else that is upset exactly how this is a "good experience".


Now you devs want us to supply you with more of the same information the beta testers did on SiSi?


Having to employ the "workaround" to bring my settings and overviews back isn't acceptable, nor should I have had to search the forums or the 140 pages of threadnaught to find a fix to an issue that just isn't mine alone but one that is affecting a decent portion of the community.

The customer shouldn't have to fix an issue where your code is obviously flawed and it isn't working as advertised. Even the beta testers on SiSi told you it was a bad idea to push the launcher as it was having issues.



If you seriously want to make playing Eve a good experience then read this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3059896#post3059896

If you want to make logging into Eve a good experience then go back to the old launcher until you finish sorting out SSO, or at least leave both the EXE and the "Logout" buttons alone. And leave them alone indefinitely.



At one time I wanted to try out SiSi, but at this point why should I have a second client for it? This is the third summer in a row you guys have messed up in a major way, and the third summer in a row the beta testers told you not to push the upgrade into production because of issues they've told you about.

You've proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that CCP as a whole won't listen to its beta testers, so please explain to me why we should help anymore?



Oh, and for CCP Atropos ...... you don't understand why we have multiple clients on a single computer?

Some folks like to play around on SiSi testing various fits that cost 1 ISK versus 40 million ISK.

Some folks like to play pirate without it costing them security status or tons of ISK.

Some folks do beta testing .... like the ones you don't listen to.


Abraham Nalelmir
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#362 - 2013-05-25 06:51:06 UTC
Dear All CCP Devs, GMs and everyone who make EVE working:

I understand that some of the feedback came about the launcher is very very harsh and spoken in some bad way (in some cases), but this is all because we love what this game is and we would never stand seeing going to the worse

I appreciate your hard work on this matter, but many were shocked because of the early unexpected bugs in the new launcher

I have read the old blogs and posts about why you want to change the old launcher into this new one, and I fully support that, because the way the old one was described to work, it was just ********... and the new launcher I'm sure with our feedback and your passion with the game will be much more better than the old one

I only have 1 request about the new launcher and some comments on some issues I noticed about it:

Request: Please add an option to remember the account password as well, while I understand it might lead to an in-secure use of the account, or maybe some sort of account sharing, but adding a check box (with the full disclaimer that the use will be responsible if he chooses to check that box) it will make it really good to switch accounts, now that I see a small check box as well called "Auto play" that will launch the game as soon as we login to the launcher

Issues I saw:

  • When I lose my internet connection then get it back, the launcher become unresponsive to "Play" button, and I have to completely restart the launcher and the login process


I believe everything has starting issues, and with time every single bug/problem/issue with the new launcher will be resolved and people will be back happy again

Thank you!

In Go.. ECM I trust

Goran Ashihara
Tr0pa de elite.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#363 - 2013-05-25 06:52:48 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Goran Ashihara wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
Spyke Spiegil wrote:
i still cannot log in via steam!!! since may 21st!!! I find this outraging!! Why hasn´t this been resolved already?? What am I paying 20 bucks a month for???

I expect this to be solved without me digging through files and sending bug reports!! I ******* pay for this game so this should not be an issue that I have to concern myself with!!!

If I do not get any compensation for the lost days I will leave this game!!

I understand your frustration but you have to provide us something to go on; a screenshot showing any error messages, or a copy paste or something, anything would be helpful.


Dear CCP Atropos and CCP Guard

OK. Let us be rational and systematic in bug error fixing if that is what you need to fix launcher.

****************************************************

Thanks in advance


Dunno if you got some help in the meantime, but:

1) Make dang sure all zombie launcher.exe's are killed (maybe someone can come up with a mini-game for that, android enabled if possible please)

2) Run repair tool from the command line as this: repair.exe --safemode

This two items got me out of a stupid 3 hour cycle of escaping hell yesterday.



Thanks KIller Wabbit

A you can see from my post i finally entered the game using EXEFILE.exe (and scared to my bones of the moment when this will not be an option) BUT that was not the point of the post. Point of that post was that CPP has been telling us "We can't fix it unless you give us log files/screenshots ...". So, I made the post that basically states:

THIS is my screenshot
THIS is my problem
THIS is what I have done
THESE are my logs
I AM WILLING to give anything you ANYTHING else you need from ME to fix the problem.
I expect an answer within 24 hours.
I expect a fix /patch/solution for my SERIOUS problem within 48 hours.


Again, no disrespect to you multi-box/instalation guys and girls but your problems are kind of funny in comparison to mine -(you cant switch characterS in less then 10 sec - I can't log in my characteR for almost 72 HOURS !!!)
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#364 - 2013-05-25 06:58:46 UTC
Why was the launcher cache moved from appdata to the install folder?

It was incredibly useful to have the launchers from different filesystem forks have their own logon settings/histories.

Please move the launcher cache back to appadata.
Skex Relbore
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#365 - 2013-05-25 07:18:58 UTC
I don't understand the thought processes at this company sometimes.

What moron thought that SSO was a good idea in a game that damned near requires multiple accounts? We recently implemented some processes to figure out how many actual human players we have in the alliance vs how many alts and I think the average was something like 3 characters per player, and that's just the ones on accounts people admit to. I doubt we're that atypical and thus I think it's safe to assume that the average is pretty close to that game wide. That means that any change that messes with the ability to use multiple clients is not only affecting some minority of your player base but is very likely causing problems for the most of the population.

This is a game with spying and scamming and all kinds of meta going on yet someone thought that a single login was a great idea? "Yeah my infiltration was going great until I forgot about the SSO and sent an EVEmail from the wrong character", yeah real good idea there.

Just stop, roll this **** back and forget about ******* with it again until you get a clue on how we actually use your product.

Abraham Nalelmir
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#366 - 2013-05-25 07:41:41 UTC
Skex Relbore wrote:

This is a game with spying and scamming and all kinds of meta going on yet someone thought that a single login was a great idea? "Yeah my infiltration was going great until I forgot about the SSO and sent an EVEmail from the wrong character", yeah real good idea there.

OK, I have not read much about SSO, so can someone clear this part for me please?
How is this going to affect what actual char I use in-game or out-of-game?

In Go.. ECM I trust

Niding
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#367 - 2013-05-25 07:43:39 UTC
Skex Relbore wrote:
I don't understand the thought processes at this company sometimes.

What moron thought that SSO was a good idea in a game that damned near requires multiple accounts? We recently implemented some processes to figure out how many actual human players we have in the alliance vs how many alts and I think the average was something like 3 characters per player, and that's just the ones on accounts people admit to. I doubt we're that atypical and thus I think it's safe to assume that the average is pretty close to that game wide. That means that any change that messes with the ability to use multiple clients is not only affecting some minority of your player base but is very likely causing problems for the most of the population.

This is a game with spying and scamming and all kinds of meta going on yet someone thought that a single login was a great idea? "Yeah my infiltration was going great until I forgot about the SSO and sent an EVEmail from the wrong character", yeah real good idea there.

Just stop, roll this **** back and forget about ******* with it again until you get a clue on how we actually use your product.



My theory about that is;

1) They assume the multiclient users are so hardcore users they will eventually accept all kinds of updates, no matter how poorly they perform.

2) They do their QA testing with very few users/accounts per tester, not actually emulating the gameexpirience that is realistic for heavy multiple account users.

Im actually somewhat uncertain to what extent they improve their updates.

Take the disaster that was Unified Inventory. It made my HEAVY trading virtually impossible to do due to the extreme lag.
After some posts in the threadnaughts and no real improvements, i sold my tradestock, quit the game for 6 months and enjoyed other games.
After watching the fanfest presentation I became quite impressed with the vision CCP have with the game, so Ive resubbed.
The Inventory system now feels quite ok to me, but that MIGHT because Im no longer engaging in extreme heavy trading like before the new inventory system. For a certain gamestyle "updates" are actually very good, but effectivly killing off other gamestyles. A Patch that eliminates some users playstyle is probarly not a good patch.

Patches and updates that affects the core expirience of the game should not be taken lightly.
Dont make me regret resubbing.
cosmiclown
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#368 - 2013-05-25 08:00:41 UTC  |  Edited by: cosmiclown
This new launcher is ****. I cant open it back up when i close it without turning my pc off and on again. thanks abunch ccp. what was wrong with the old one?

EDIT; oh yeah all this after uninstalling and reinstalling the client cos the repair tool ****** everything up
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#369 - 2013-05-25 08:05:37 UTC
Par'Gellen wrote:

Ever since the update to the launcher today I've had little problem logging in and switching between multiple accounts. Here's the fastest way I've found (still a tad slower than the old way but not much).

1. Make sure the Autoplay checkbox in the lower right is checked and your Launcher is not set to close itself after starting the client.

2. Log in whatever account you like.

3. Click Switch User Account as soon as it's available to click on (virtually instant on my machine).

4. Repeat from step 2 until all your accounts are in.

5. Close the Launcher (or leave it open if you will need to do a lot of account hopping).

6. Done.





1. click eve exe,
2. hot key password,
3. hit enter and im at the selector screen.

repeat for all clients or when swapping to alt substitute click exe for click log off.


why do I need all the extra steps? and a 2nd program running just so I can log in?

OMG when can i get a pic here

Par'Gellen
#370 - 2013-05-25 08:05:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Par'Gellen
Sarah Stallman wrote:
Why was the launcher cache moved from appdata to the install folder?

It was incredibly useful to have the launchers from different filesystem forks have their own logon settings/histories.

Please move the launcher cache back to appadata.

I (and any other programmer in the entire universe that isn't stuck in the 1990's) agree with this. User data files should NEVER EVER EVER be stored outside of the user folder and haven't been, in practice, since the days of VB6.

This is a mistake I would expect from an intern or someone's cousin's brother's friend that can do little more than three lines of code to print their name in a never ending loop.

Storing data files in the installation folder is some serious herpa-derping.

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...

Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#371 - 2013-05-25 08:09:23 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:


I have to step in at this point (not just to respond to you but also others) and point out that we aren't seeing massive number of people unable to log in according to our metrics.


Tha's probably because the vast majority of users are still using the eve.exe method. :)
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#372 - 2013-05-25 08:11:23 UTC
Kangaax wrote:

Because obviously, for cost reasons, they can't allocate 20 000 people to test a launcher on every single configuration on earth, and the issue might be on steam or even your connection.


They get free hundreds of people on the SiSi server and they tell the software is not OK and not ready and yet they push it anyway.

How are you going to spin about this, then?

Abraham Nalelmir
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#373 - 2013-05-25 08:12:17 UTC
Maybe CCP can get back the old launcher, change its outdated stuff, while keeping it the same old way of launching the game, or maybe give us both options through a menu or something to switch between new launcher "interface only, with SSO" and the old one
That will be nice for all

When I first read about the incoming launcher change, that what came into my mind, not a full scale change on the launcher and how I use it to get into EVE

In Go.. ECM I trust

Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#374 - 2013-05-25 08:15:09 UTC
CCP: Skipping awkward questions since 2003...AND STILL DOING IT...


Rommiee wrote:
CCP.....HELLO

Still skipping this question, then.....


Rommiee wrote:
CCP Atropos or any CCP employee, really.....

Still skipping this question of why do you do what is outlined below, then ?


Rommiee wrote:
So... would you like to answer the question that pretty much everyone has been asking over the last couple of days, but you have avoided :

Time and time again, you introduce a new "feature" on to Sisi, and when major issues are found by the players testing the said feature, you pretty much ignore the feedback given to you and bring it on to TQ anyway.

You always apologise afterwards and promise to do things better in the future, but surprise surprise it happens again, and again, and again. You never seem to learn by past mistakes and never keep your word about changing your procedures.

Therefore do not be surprised when we do not believe a word you say.

Quote:
Your voices have been heard loud and clear and we've been busy taking notes so we'd like to ask you to help us move forward in this thread and keep the feedback focused and constructive. Thank you


We have heard that so many times,


Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#375 - 2013-05-25 08:16:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Smoking Blunts
CCP Guard wrote:
Niding wrote:
CCP Guard;

For me the issue isnt being able to log in, but the ackward mechanic of logging on multiple accounts.

As I (and many others) have said repeatedly; the new launcher is so user UNfriendly and slow that we ONLY use EXEFILE to log on directly.
Remove that ability and force us to use the new launcher in its current unfriendly state will probarly lead to new threadnaughts.


That is noted and I hope you trust that it is our common interest to make sure that logging into EVE and playing EVE is a good experience.


your current actions say other wise.

your making it so bloody annoying for me to multibox and when you do finally remove the only way I currently have to by pass that launcher its going to become such a drawn out process involving so many bloody launcher screens and extra steps.

so simply no I do not see how your not trying to make me hate logging into eve with my 8 accounts and at this point I have no faith in you hearing what people are saying and acting on it

OMG when can i get a pic here

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#376 - 2013-05-25 08:31:27 UTC
Balder Verdandi wrote:


Oh, and for CCP Atropos ...... you don't understand why we have multiple clients on a single computer?

Some folks like to play around on SiSi testing various fits that cost 1 ISK versus 40 million ISK.

Some folks like to play pirate without it costing them security status or tons of ISK.

Some folks do beta testing .... like the ones you don't listen to.




What should REALLY worry you and the other players (it worries me a lot!) is that CCP Atropos talks like he/she's been hired from another company 3 days ago and has never witnessed the typical EvE player use-cases.

So, he/she could code some amazing piece of software but it'd still be an unusable piece of junk for what regards me and my accounts.

I need executive, practical game play including streamlined logging in, not some bloatware.

Speaking of bloatware, it's terrible design to make an updater so super heavy weight.

Are we going to need a splash screen and maybe a pre-updater next, so we can wait the updater to load in a whole web browser, access web services, RSS and who knows how much more stuff that HAS to be put in the started application and not in an updater?
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#377 - 2013-05-25 09:31:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rommiee
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Are we going to need a splash screen and maybe a pre-updater next, so we can wait the updater to load in a whole web browser, access web services, RSS and who knows how much more stuff that HAS to be put in the started application and not in an updater?


Probably

but don't worry.....

CCP Guard wrote:
That is noted and I hope you trust that it is our common interest to make sure that logging into EVE and playing EVE is a good experience.


We all know that we can trust CCP to deliver on their promises.
Eric Agerwal
Cryosoft
#378 - 2013-05-25 10:22:58 UTC
It would seem more logical to me if the 50k SP had been treated as a redeemable item. Then we could have allocated the SP to the appropriate alt, rather than have CCP guess our wishes. SP as a yearly gift has also always been high on peoples wish lists... so if CCP were to implement things this way they would be killing two birds with one stone.
ISquishWorms
#379 - 2013-05-25 11:11:44 UTC
Rommiee wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:


I have to step in at this point (not just to respond to you but also others) and point out that we aren't seeing massive number of people unable to log in according to our metrics.


Tha's probably because the vast majority of users are still using the eve.exe method. :)


I am sorry CCP Guard you are my favorite CCP developer as you make me laugh, and in this case I know you are only trying to help, but on this occasion I have to agree with Rommiee that the majority of those who are managing to successfully login are probably resorting to using the ExeFile.exe method (I know I am).

‘No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh’.

Bob Bedala
#380 - 2013-05-25 11:42:03 UTC
The password entry field can no longer be rclicked with the mouse to paste a password.

I use password management software for everything, so copy out my password on the mouse as I can't get it to auto complete credentials into the launcher, unlike 95% of websites. But, the launcher is not keyboard-navigable.

So now AFAICT you have to focus on the pwd field with the mouse then CTRL+v on the keyboard. So it's now slower to log in.

I'm logging in to double-check this right now, and even though it's in the forefront of my mind, still my muscle memory rclicks on the pwd field and expects a "paste" option :)