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Try our new hacking/archaeology sites!

First post First post
Author
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#81 - 2013-05-22 21:51:42 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
(the faction towers are back in)


HALLELUJAH!
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#82 - 2013-05-22 22:13:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Rob Crowley
I did a couple Serpentis data and relic sites in highsec and lowsec and a data site in a C3 WH. My coherency was 90, my strength 20. There were a total of 14 easy debris cans, 11 medium rubble cans (WH cans were of this difficulty) and 1 hard remains can. I never had any trouble with the easy cans, I lost the minigame for 1 medium and 1 hard can, but succeeded on 2nd try for both. I usually managed to pick up maybe a bit less than half of the spew cans unless there were bugs as mentioned below.

The Good

  • The minigame as such is alright, it could use a bit more fleshing out as in more different defences and utilities, but it's fun as it is. The balancing seems mostly ok too, though a bit of fine-tuning might be needed.


The Bad

  • Anti-Virus Suppressors are too hard. The only way I could destroy them is using 2 utilities on them. I think they should at least die to 1 Secondary Vector used for the full 3 turns.
  • The loot spewing mechanic is simply no fun at all. Twitchy dexterity gameplay + inherently laggy MMO environment = frustrating and annoying player experience.
  • The loot was pretty horrible for all the sites, I barely got any of the regular items. I think out of the 14 easy containers I got exactly 1 spew can of regular loot. Also filling up my cargo with useless junk gets old really quick, how about making the useless cans just empty?
  • Remove Small Arms from the loot table. Never try to sneak surprise contraband into my cargo! I mean it!


The Ugly (Bugs)

  • Sometimes the colouring of the loot cans doesn't work and they just stay white for a minute or so till they suddenly get coloured. This makes the timing of tractoring very hard.
  • Sometimes the tractoring of loot cans doesn't work even though the can was green when I clicked it, might be that this happens when the cans are at the edge of max range, so possibly lag related.
  • With 3 Anti-Virus Suppressors on the field I managed to destroy one of them using 2 Secondary Vectors and my strength went back to full 20 even though the other 2 Suppressors were still active.
  • Firewall description claims it has high strength, Anti-Virus description claims it has high coherency. It's actually the other way round.


Edit: By the way, all highsec and lowsec Serpentis sites had the cans on top of each other.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2013-05-22 22:17:20 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
mynnna wrote:
sXyphos wrote:
I see your point but the loot balance must be very thought over to make it worthwhile.Guess it's decent if u put it that way,constant income with a chance of a jackpot that increases with friends Shocked


Well, chance of a jackpot regardless. Better chance of a jackpot with friends.


Hope you trust your friends. Blink

Trusting friends is part of the reason that exploration has been mostly a solo gig.
The chance for a jackpot is all well and good, but the loot table right now is so crappy a single person cannot make any isk, and we were told a solo explorer should make out with about the same amount if not a little more as currently.


Loot table was doubled and more items were added (cap rigs, faction towers etc). It's more valuable than current TQ.

Am I doing something wrong then? All I ever seem to get is data sheets, scrap metal, small arms, and electronic parts.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#84 - 2013-05-22 22:19:58 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
mynnna wrote:
sXyphos wrote:
I see your point but the loot balance must be very thought over to make it worthwhile.Guess it's decent if u put it that way,constant income with a chance of a jackpot that increases with friends Shocked


Well, chance of a jackpot regardless. Better chance of a jackpot with friends.


Hope you trust your friends. Blink

Trusting friends is part of the reason that exploration has been mostly a solo gig.
The chance for a jackpot is all well and good, but the loot table right now is so crappy a single person cannot make any isk, and we were told a solo explorer should make out with about the same amount if not a little more as currently.


Loot table was doubled and more items were added (cap rigs, faction towers etc). It's more valuable than current TQ.

Am I doing something wrong then? All I ever seem to get is data sheets, scrap metal, small arms, and electronic parts.


Might be a product of us having 2x the number of cans intended. There should be a Sisi update tomorrow and it should be adressed. Also, there is a scheme to the loot containers (based on name) which should help you once you get that down.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2013-05-22 22:27:48 UTC
I will definitely try some more tomorrow and post my results.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#86 - 2013-05-22 22:33:11 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Dax Buchanan wrote:
There was a lot of negativity expressed towards the scatter mechanic, the difficulty / player skill required for the hacking game and the loot (ie: junk) released in this thread Has this been addressed?


We've reduced the number of cans and are looking at loot table again. In general though, the scattering and picking up of cans remains.


Can you allow them to have regular jet can mechanics then, stays in space for 1-2 hours

Oderint Dum Metuant

AutumnWind1983
Reboot Required
#87 - 2013-05-22 22:38:45 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Forgive me if I am mistaken, but were all Data and Relic sites supposed to have no rats?
Worm Hole Data and Relic Sites still seem to have sleepers.


This should not be the case. Filed a quick bug report and added to the known problems in the OP.


Does this mean the site can no longer be escalated?

James Arget for CSM 8! http://csm.fcftw.org

Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#88 - 2013-05-22 22:40:17 UTC
Killua Zoldyeck wrote:
Johan Toralen wrote:
Did run 3 low sec guristas relic sites:
Rat spawns are easy enough to run the sites in cov ops frig.


I'm not sure how can you take down a Cruiser with an unarmed Covert Ops? Care to share your fit/ship?


You are right. I confused it with t1 frig.
Killua Zoldyeck
Lucidus Ordo
Pandemic Legion
#89 - 2013-05-22 22:44:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Killua Zoldyeck
Johan Toralen wrote:
Killua Zoldyeck wrote:
Johan Toralen wrote:
Did run 3 low sec guristas relic sites:
Rat spawns are easy enough to run the sites in cov ops frig.


I'm not sure how can you take down a Cruiser with an unarmed Covert Ops? Care to share your fit/ship?


You are right. I confused it with t1 frig.



I see :) Well, that's ok I guess.
But exploring in Low Sec would be best in a Covert Ops, so I'd really love if CCP could remove the NPC spawns at least from low sec. I'm perfectly fine to be punished if I fail the minigame. Just destroy the can if I fail. I'll try with the others cans. But an NPC spawn would mean that I lose the entire site and I think it's a bit too punishing.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#90 - 2013-05-22 22:48:32 UTC  |  Edited by: EvilweaselSA
CCP Soundwave wrote:

Have you played it after Sisi was deployed today? We've doubled the loot in each site (to account for cans you don't get), added new types (the faction towers are back in) and cut the number of cans in half. This should be in much better shape now (if it's not, we'll continue making changes of course).

WHOA

faction pos mod bpcs too? :happysun:
Hathrul
NED-Clan
Goonswarm Federation
#91 - 2013-05-22 23:16:19 UTC
AutumnWind1983 wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Forgive me if I am mistaken, but were all Data and Relic sites supposed to have no rats?
Worm Hole Data and Relic Sites still seem to have sleepers.


This should not be the case. Filed a quick bug report and added to the known problems in the OP.


Does this mean the site can no longer be escalated?


you really remove rats from wh radar mag? is this supposed to give us more isk, or to kill prices on t3? it seems rather....odd either way. basically, i dont see any way this is a good idea. but then....there are many not so good idea's comming it seems
chris elliot
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#92 - 2013-05-22 23:24:56 UTC
Hathrul wrote:
AutumnWind1983 wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Forgive me if I am mistaken, but were all Data and Relic sites supposed to have no rats?
Worm Hole Data and Relic Sites still seem to have sleepers.


This should not be the case. Filed a quick bug report and added to the known problems in the OP.


Does this mean the site can no longer be escalated?


you really remove rats from wh radar mag? is this supposed to give us more isk, or to kill prices on t3? it seems rather....odd either way. basically, i dont see any way this is a good idea. but then....there are many not so good idea's comming it seems




Given how much foozie and whoeverelse is doing the balancing has been saying they are going to nerf the sht out of t3s they could at least make them cheaper.

If my billion isk ship is only as good as a 500 mill ship, it behoves one to make the ship actually cost 500 mill. Otherwise you'll wind up turning them into miniature revenants. i.e really pretty to look at but useless as hell and expensive as hell too.
Illectroculus Defined
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#93 - 2013-05-22 23:27:24 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Loot table was doubled and more items were added (cap rigs, faction towers etc). It's more valuable than current TQ.


I hope we primarily have sensible cap rig BPC's - I still have large Hacking, Warp Speed and Archaeology BPCs. Many of the cap rigs will be useless.

And, as for the faction towers, will this include reseeding of faction POS mods while you're at it?
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#94 - 2013-05-22 23:44:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Johan Toralen
Guristas Data Fortress
Still has colission issues. I suspect the destroyed station prop is wrapped in a single concave collision hull which causes the problem. See pic for what i'm talking about:

http://i.imgur.com/t3YXqj2.jpg

I got from the site one Esoteric Process otherwise only worthless crap.

Guristas Data Processing Center
Also still has colission issues. Easy to get stuck in the colission (good luck warping out when pirates hunt you).
And when loot spews out in the wrong direction you can't grab it at all:

http://i.imgur.com/GThLB8N.jpg

I got nothing of worth at all from that site. Two containers blew up. I found the hacking too hard for the data sites. Maybe bad luck. It happend a few times that antivirus strenght only reduced by 1 and kept doing so. Then you're basicaly screwed. Could be a bug!

To sum up my day. From 3 relic sites i got 1m isk on average. From 2 data sites i got 3m isk on average. Granted it's a small sample size and could be bad luck but others don't seem to get decent loot aswell. So going by these numbers loot has to be upped around ten fold to get back to old numbers assuming 15m average for mag and 20m average for radar on low sec tranquility sites.
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#95 - 2013-05-23 00:45:32 UTC
Removing sleepers from Radars and Mags in wspace is not a good idea without adding additional content to them. It is going to be just to easy right now to collect hacking loot meaning the prices will drop and noone will go to those sites anyway.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2013-05-23 01:02:37 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
Removing sleepers from Radars and Mags in wspace is not a good idea without adding additional content to them. It is going to be just to easy right now to collect hacking loot meaning the prices will drop and noone will go to those sites anyway.

It is a great change, it allows people to slip into W-space and run a couple of those sites and make a bit of isk. It maybe true it will caus the value of those sites to drop but that will coincide with the T3 nerf we will soon see.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Shade Millith
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#97 - 2013-05-23 01:11:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Shade Millith
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Chitsa Jason wrote:
Removing sleepers from Radars and Mags in wspace is not a good idea without adding additional content to them. It is going to be just to easy right now to collect hacking loot meaning the prices will drop and noone will go to those sites anyway.

It is a great change, it allows people to slip into W-space and run a couple of those sites and make a bit of isk. It maybe true it will caus the value of those sites to drop but that will coincide with the T3 nerf we will soon see.


Yeah, because people are just SUPPOSED to slip in and out of C5's and C6's, pick up easy to grab loot, and trundle off back into empire after a few hours! /s

It's MEANT to be simple and easy! /s

Worm Holes are supposed to be difficult. They're supposed to have a high barrier of entry. They're supposed to be scary.

This is just making it too easy.


Put the Sleepers back in WH space. This is a stupid change that just doesn't make sense.

Hell, the whole thing is just going to devalue everything Wormhole and non-Wormhole, and make it pretty worthless. This is a pretty daft change all around.
Zelarrs Elkoth
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#98 - 2013-05-23 01:17:13 UTC
mynnna wrote:
The whole point of the loot spew is that it encourages bringing friends. The loot you can grab on your own is balanced to be worth doing alone, or should be once the drop tables are finalized. You might even get lucky and snag one of the high value cans and get something like a faction tower BPC. Because of the way it's setup, you can bring friends and not decrease your overall income, and maybe even increase it, since more cans means more shots at those juicy ones. And, the design means that the friends have to be actual friends instead of just a second or third account as with so many other supposedly "social" activities in eve.

Because of this, if they were tuned for one person, you wouldn't be missing out on loot, because the extra loot you can't get on your own wouldn't be there in the first place.


As I was saying on last week's Space Hangout with Ali:

The idea of balancing it so that friends working together can be rewarded is a good one.

The feedback we are getting here is that the execution is annoying.

Imagine doing this over and over as a career.

I don't see it happening.

This execution will likely drive existing explorers out of the profession and become a curiosity only, as I don't see it as likely that many will choose this as their primary activity.

Making the exploration focused Odyssey likely to be the expansion that kills exploration as a profession. Surely this is not intended?

Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Captain, Head of Diplomacy, Recruiting Officer Contact on channel: "PIE Public" "I walk the razor's edge of embracing the future while protecting what we value of the past."

iskflakes
#99 - 2013-05-23 01:17:28 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
Removing sleepers from Radars and Mags in wspace is not a good idea without adding additional content to them. It is going to be just to easy right now to collect hacking loot meaning the prices will drop and noone will go to those sites anyway.


I also think this is a bad idea. Many people depend on the income from those sites via capital escalations. If you have to remove the rats can you keep the capital escalation feature, so we can warp some capitals in to trigger spawns to kill? (or deliberately fail the hacking to spawn some rats to kill?) . Removing the ability to capital escalate radar/mag sites means less content for people who PVP in wormholes too.

-

Dax Buchanan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2013-05-23 01:17:50 UTC
Johan Toralen wrote:


All in all i think these sites could be much more enjoyable if they were centered around the hacking game not the loot spewing.
My idea would be to have in each hacking game not just a system core but also a node that leads one level deeper in the security system. So player can choose between hacking the core or consider to to take a risk and go deeper with remaining virus strenght to find even better loot. And then should this fail the loot spews as punishment and rats spawn.


This

It uses the same tools so little redevelopment and will lead to much more enjoyable experience.