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Try our new hacking/archaeology sites!

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Author
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#41 - 2013-05-22 17:00:44 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Soundwave
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Forgive me if I am mistaken, but were all Data and Relic sites supposed to have no rats?
Worm Hole Data and Relic Sites still seem to have sleepers.


This should not be the case. Filed a quick bug report and added to the known problems in the OP.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#42 - 2013-05-22 17:05:03 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Forgive me if I am mistaken, but were all Data and Relic sites supposed to have no rats?
Worm Hole Data and Relic Sites still seem to have sleepers.


This should not be the case. Filed a quick bug report

Luckily I was in a T3, otherwise I would have lost my 2,500 isk ship.Lol
Please look at this one also, Bug Report ID 158937

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

tgl3
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2013-05-22 17:12:15 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Forgive me if I am mistaken, but were all Data and Relic sites supposed to have no rats?
Worm Hole Data and Relic Sites still seem to have sleepers.


This should not be the case. Filed a quick bug report and added to the known problems in the OP.

I was under the impression that this was actually intended, since the lore reason for there being no NPCs didn't really apply to Sleepers? Not to mention that the main ISK from these sites actually came from the Sleepers. Oh well.
Paul Clancy
Korpu no Byakko
#44 - 2013-05-22 17:13:18 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Hi there,

The issue with the +1 on the Hacking and Archaeology skills is a known issue. It should of course be +10 Coherency.
Another known issue is the one where your Coherence doesn't return to it's original value once the Anti-Virus Suppressors is destroyed. It should of course go back up to what it was originally.

Both will be fixed soon and most definitely before release.


Great! What about Hacking/Archaeology rigs? Seems they have no bonus to Coherence too.
CCP RedDawn
C C P
C C P Alliance
#45 - 2013-05-22 17:17:13 UTC
Paul Clancy wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Hi there,

The issue with the +1 on the Hacking and Archaeology skills is a known issue. It should of course be +10 Coherency.
Another known issue is the one where your Coherence doesn't return to it's original value once the Anti-Virus Suppressors is destroyed. It should of course go back up to what it was originally.

Both will be fixed soon and most definitely before release.


Great! What about Hacking/Archaeology rigs? Seems they have no bonus to Coherence too.


Yup, both the Memetic Algorithm Bank and Emission Scope Sharpener rigs have been fixed.
It's just not on Singularity yet. Big smile

Team Genesis

Killua Zoldyeck
Jump Zero
#46 - 2013-05-22 17:18:28 UTC
Tsubutai wrote:
A few other observations: in some cases, when you fail to hack a can at the first attempt, the game spawns an NPC cruiser that attacks you.


I was under the impression that NPC were eliminated from exploration sites, thus enabling us to use Exploration Ships (like the Covert Ops) and not fit guns or tank modules.

If a Cruiser spawns and I'm in a covert ops, I would be forced to leave the site...

I hope this is a bug, no NPC should spawn ever. If I fail to hack a can, my punishment is that the can loot is lost forever, not that a NPC comes and forces me to leave the site forever as I'm not able to kill it with a covert ops.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#47 - 2013-05-22 17:24:20 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Paul Clancy wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Hi there,

The issue with the +1 on the Hacking and Archaeology skills is a known issue. It should of course be +10 Coherency.
Another known issue is the one where your Coherence doesn't return to it's original value once the Anti-Virus Suppressors is destroyed. It should of course go back up to what it was originally.

Both will be fixed soon and most definitely before release.


Great! What about Hacking/Archaeology rigs? Seems they have no bonus to Coherence too.


Yup, both the Memetic Algorithm Bank and Emission Scope Sharpener rigs have been fixed.
It's just not on Singularity yet. Big smile

Any Chance on reducing the calibration cost of those? They seem quite high for what they give.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#48 - 2013-05-22 17:29:58 UTC
Killua Zoldyeck wrote:


I hope this is a bug, no NPC should spawn ever. If I fail to hack a can, my punishment is that the can loot is lost forever, not that a NPC comes and forces me to leave the site forever as I'm not able to kill it with a covert ops.


Doesn't seem like a bug. If you fail a hack attempt once it spawns a single rat, if you fail it twice the can blows up.

Which the blowing up part is cool. I don't mind the rats personally since it sets some bar especially in low-0.0 sites.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#49 - 2013-05-22 17:29:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Forgive me if I am mistaken, but were all Data and Relic sites supposed to have no rats?
Worm Hole Data and Relic Sites still seem to have sleepers.


This should not be the case. Filed a quick bug report and added to the known problems in the OP.

Are you sure? I remember other dev posts saying that of all data and relic sites, sleeper sites would keep their rats. Right now the sleepers are easiest at the gas and ore sites, harder at the anomalies, and hardest at the data and relic sites. Taking them away from those sites will transition them form the hardest sites to the easiest sites in Anoikis. Is that the intent?

Edit: This will also nerf Anoikis as an income source. Loot form sleepers at the data and relic sites is a significant income source for those exploring and living there.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#50 - 2013-05-22 17:33:14 UTC
All right,after a long search for one I finally ran one. I've done exploration for a long long time, so how to go about saying this…. everything in this new experience is awful.

After warping to a site I found the comm towers will not let you hack them (I'm guessing not competed yet?). But I start in on the data shards and well, the mini game is one big ball of frustration. First off, it takes far longer to do the mini-game then it did before to let a module hack. So sites now take a lot longer to do. And most importantly in lowsec that's time I'm not on the Dscan. My skills in game before this allowed me to hack any container rather quickly with only a really small few that took a long time, every mini game now feels like it takes longer than that.

On the first attempt at the hack I failed. This is after finding two tools to help and not wasting any points on hacking blockers before finding the core. Nothing like random number generated failure to put the explorer in a good mood! So now that a rat has spawned I have to fly back and get a combat ship just like I did before anyway, so thanks for removing the rats. So that annoyance is still there, all because? Something, something, "punishing failure", "rewarding success" yada yada, that in the end just all felt like I had to deal with a huge annoyance all because of random number generator. Great gameplay.

So after getting back, killing rat and starting new hack I got it. And then the loot pinata! To say the this is awful to do on a laptop trackpad is an understatement. It feels like it was designed with only a mouse in mind. I was able to grab only 4 containers. It was a chaotic, frustrating, clickfest. Too hard to click on them while moving quickly, and overshooting them was common. Even with no MWD it was hard to click on the right point, and just not fun. After all that then I get rewarded with the most awful loot and the sense of failure at what got a away. Good job guys.

On to the second container, now that I'm at 4x the time it used to take me to run one of these sites. The second container was all blockers in the mini game. Like 6 of them. So after failing that game when the new rat showed up strangely while fighting him the container blew up (I never activated a gun on it). So yea, more strange random failure or frustrating design? So in the end I took 4x-5x longer to do a site, and got a few thousand isk in rewards compared to an average of 12-30 million before (the loot was random data sheets and small arms… you know junk).

All in all now that I ran one, I feel frustration born dread in having to do these again for isk. Do not like at all.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#51 - 2013-05-22 17:36:39 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Forgive me if I am mistaken, but were all Data and Relic sites supposed to have no rats?
Worm Hole Data and Relic Sites still seem to have sleepers.


This should not be the case. Filed a quick bug report and added to the known problems in the OP.

Are you sure? I remember other dev posts saying that of all data and relic sites, sleeper sites would keep their rats. Right now the sleepers are easiest at the gas and ore sites, harder at the anomalies, and hardest at the data and relic sites. Taking them away from those sites will transition them form the hardest sites to the easiest sites in Anoikis. Is that the intent?

Edit: This will also nerf Anoikis as an income source. Loot form sleepers at the data and relic sites is a significant income source for those exploring and living there.

I believe the intent is to promote more people to explore W-space and right now there is a very high barrier due to the sleepers.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Mario delTorres
Praetore Im Picaro Ama
#52 - 2013-05-22 17:42:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario delTorres
I think the ammount of spammed cans should be reduced. I just found guritas data site in lowsec. There was 3 data cans. When I've scaned them with cargo scanner: I've got: first and second has only 1 decryptor, third has 1 decryptor and about 40 datainterfaces parts.
How many containters are spawned after successful hack? 15? 20? I wasn't count. But if it is 20 there is only 5% chance to catch this one with good loot. Inside other 95% are data sheets, small parts and so on.

Relic sites has a little better. Inside cans are 2-3 kinds of loot, the chance is then better. The best is in nullsec when is 5-6 types of loot in one can.

It should be repaired.
I have 2 ideas:
1. An amount of containters spawned after succesful analyzinn should be based on amount of proper loot.
2. As told ew posts above.There shouldn't be worthless loot (data sheet etc), but in every spawned containter should be loot worth of sale. Let it be 1 or 2 cheapest exploration/salvage parts but let it be useful.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#53 - 2013-05-22 17:44:31 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

very high barrier due to the sleepers.


This is kind of the point? It's only a high barrier if you solo, the point of WH was to group up. Which is what CCP did right when it comes to promoting co-op/group play. The pinata however does not.

Takes 1 person to scan, 1 person to hack, and multiple people to loot? Backwards logic.

Apocraphya still stands as the best expansion, which ironically Odyssey looks to destroy(not in a good way).

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#54 - 2013-05-22 17:54:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Johan Toralen
Did run 3 low sec guristas relic sites:

The containers still were on top of each other in each site. Loot was abysmal (little over 1m isk average).
Hacking difficulty felt well balanced (125/30 on my site), about 70% success rate. Rat spawns are easy enough to run the sites in cov ops frig. The minigame still feels very random but there is at least a little bit of strategy involved now.

The loot spewing i find still horrible. It's by far the least enjoyable part of the new sites. The symbols are too small, too many cans - it really gets ridiculous after hacking the 3rd or 4th container (nevermind running multiple sites after another...), tractor beam feels painfully slow, keeping an eye on local and dscan is very hard because you have to focus so much on the cans. I really wish you would reconsider this mechanic or use it for what it feels like: a punishment. Trust me you'll get a lot of flack for this come Odyssey because it really isn't fun.

All in all i think these sites could be much more enjoyable if they were centered around the hacking game not the loot spewing.
My idea would be to have in each hacking game not just a system core but also a node that leads one level deeper in the security system. So player can choose between hacking the core or consider to to take a risk and go deeper with remaining virus strenght to find even better loot. And then should this fail the loot spews as punishment and rats spawn.
Jocca Quinn
Matari BackBone
#55 - 2013-05-22 18:11:08 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Dax Buchanan wrote:
There was a lot of negativity expressed towards the scatter mechanic, the difficulty / player skill required for the hacking game and the loot (ie: junk) released in this thread Has this been addressed?


We've reduced the number of cans and are looking at loot table again. In general though, the scattering and picking up of cans remains.


So in answer to the OP, "No".

Its AWESOME! right?
Maddan69
Blunt Force Syndicate
#56 - 2013-05-22 18:13:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Maddan69
I just don't see the logic behind the loot explosion after successfully completing the mini-game... It's not a reward it's a hindrance.

Fail the hacking attempt you get the loot explosion.
Succeed the hacking attempt you loot the container like you would normally.

The loot explosion is not rewarding and if it is introduced when patch day comes I will purposely just de-spawn the site for something better to spawn.. and this is coming from someone who does exploration every single day.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#57 - 2013-05-22 18:35:17 UTC
So, I went through highsec my 20 jump route, found 3 relic and 1 data site and got a whopping 1.5mil in crap from them. Also lost 0.2 faction standing because I forgot to jettison the small arms once. Please get rid of contraband drops.

With 90 coherence and 20 strength, I am able to succeed in all but two hacks when I had to break more than three firewalls without finding a repair tool. Getting a sense of how the levels are generated allows you to explore farther before hitting a firewall, increasing your chance to completely avoid them or to get enough repair tools to break through everything.

I manage to get around 8-10 cans per piñata. Getting the ship into the right speed into the right direction is highly annoying, looting selectively only certain types of cans is next to impossible due to them only displaying the name when hovering over them and the time constraints. I still hate the piñata with a passion.


The hacking game is becoming something interesting but the loot tables need work and the piñata a heavy club in its face to put it out of its misery.
Nicola Arman
Deep Maw Salvage
#58 - 2013-05-22 18:36:34 UTC
Why do the cans scatter after SUCCESS??? I don't understand the logic behind this. As an active explorer it makes me sad to see this implemented..
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#59 - 2013-05-22 18:51:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
Ok, I have finished a C1 Data site, I picked up about 8~10 cans form one spew container. I received 6 items form that spew container and the total value of that container was about 700k.
The only WH items that was there was a R.A.M. Hybrid Technology. A second Container dropped 13 Defensive Subsystem DataCores

Please remove the "Junk" items from the database.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#60 - 2013-05-22 18:55:04 UTC
Regarding the balancing of these sites - it looks as though the T1 exploration frigates will be the optimal ships for running radar and relic sites in lowsec (and possibly 0.0, depending on what kind of rats spawn in response to failed hacking attempts) due to their hull bonus to virus strength. Assuming the rewards for the sites are buffed to match or exceed current SiSi payouts, this seems to present a rather lopsided risk:reward ratio, since a minmaxed hacking-fit heron costs around 10m at most but can potentially be used to farm faction tower BPCs, decryptors, and the doodads needed to manufacture the new T2 scanning mods...