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EVE Solo Players
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Adunh Slavy
#201 - 2013-05-20 22:33:20 UTC
EI Digin wrote:

Adunh Slavy wrote:

Needing to have some developer pre-determined group size, or a group at all, is theme park and not sand box.

The problem is that there are already pre-determined game mechanics that prevent players from fully interacting with other players, which helps out solo players against all other players and is against the sandbox mentality. Most agree that removing the mechanics completely is not a good idea. Tweaks here and there are needed to balance the current situation, just like anything else.



Like what? What can a solo player do on Eve, that can't be joined in cooperation with another, or interrupted by another? Ship spin? Stare at the walls in the CQ? Ok, I'll have to give you those.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#202 - 2013-05-20 23:04:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ana Vyr wrote:
I don't have the playtime to be in a corp. I refuse to burden others with my lack of attention to the game. By the same token, when I finally do get in game, I want to do what I want, not get roped into something else. Corps are awesome if you have the time and motivation to participate though. Solo Eve simply suits my lifestyle.


This is a really common misconception about player corps.

My corp asks me to do...exactly nothing. Zilch, nada. I do as I please, if I see someone needs help (need boosts for some mining or ratting fleet, needs a cyno etc etc) I do it, IF I want to.

There are LOTS or player corps like mine, in fact mine is more likely the model for an EVE corp than the draconian "control everything you do" type corps.

"Soloing" isn't a bad thing, but making silly excuses for not being in a player corp (instead of just saying "i don't like being bothered by other people) is kind of a bad thing. No one cares why you don't do something, do as you please.


I agree with this in full. I work 40 hours a week and still I find enough time not only to play Eve, but even to run a small corporation. Granted, at times it's a struggle for survival against many hostile groups with more ISK, more time and more manpower. But to me that's also the charm of the game. By grouping up with an Alliance we have more fleets to join, and more people to group up and do whatever the hell we feel like doing at that time. Basicly I log in, determine what I want to do, and join a fleet or head out solo. Most things expected of me as CEO don't take a huge percentage of my playtime. I bet I could run a small Alliance and still find the time to make babies.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#203 - 2013-05-21 00:12:28 UTC
Six Six Six wrote:
I've played GW2, I take it you haven't...blah blah blah


Ok, so you're utterly full of ****.

NP, happens to the best of us.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Ranzabar
Doomheim
#204 - 2013-05-21 01:04:03 UTC
No date this weekend? Just go solo. That's what I do.

Abide
Setaceous
Nexus Prima
#205 - 2013-05-21 02:03:04 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
EI Digin wrote:

Adunh Slavy wrote:

Needing to have some developer pre-determined group size, or a group at all, is theme park and not sand box.

The problem is that there are already pre-determined game mechanics that prevent players from fully interacting with other players, which helps out solo players against all other players and is against the sandbox mentality. Most agree that removing the mechanics completely is not a good idea. Tweaks here and there are needed to balance the current situation, just like anything else.



Like what? What can a solo player do on Eve, that can't be joined in cooperation with another, or interrupted by another? Ship spin? Stare at the walls in the CQ? Ok, I'll have to give you those.

Log in, set skill queue, log out.
Tiberius Amzadee
The Night Stalker Syndicate
#206 - 2013-05-21 04:23:26 UTC
Log in, set skill queue,whine on forums, log out.-Fixed it.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#207 - 2013-05-21 04:33:43 UTC
I think rather than tightening up mechanics to force group play relaxing the mechanics in regards to solo play would have a more positive effect for everyone. ,

The only real solo viable gameplay is care-bear play. L4's, mining and trading. Solo PvP is possible but it's risk reward balance is extreme in the negative.

This game is a PvP game, that's it's core function. I don't think anyone would complain if there was more small group or solo PvP available, even solo PvP is not really solo, you're interacting.

With the introduction of anti-solo PvP mechanics (remote assist modules, gang only leadership buffs) it's really not worthwhile taking on a small gang solo. If I'm up against 2 players vs myself I'm already at a big disadvantage without having to worry about them magically getting more EHP, faster cap, faster lock, etc from leadership as well as remote reps, transferring cap etc etc.

It's really absurd logic that a force multiplier is given to the force with the most ships. They already have the numbers advantage.

What's my point? People who don't want to group with others might at least want to fight others which is not solo but the mechanics don't really allow this. And the only other solo options are quitting, care bear pure solo vs npc L4, or trading or mining. None of which are interacting with other players.

Fix the bizarre magical mechanics favouring numbers and you may find less pure solo and more small gang / solo PvP.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Mik Nostrebor
11 Percent
#208 - 2013-05-21 05:34:00 UTC
dark heartt wrote:
I...

The other major thing is that they feel solo players don't bring any emergent gameplay to the sandbox, so they don't contribute anything to the game.

...


Um, I do not pay money for a game so that I can bring you anything. If you want me to bring you anything (emergent game play or whatnot) then you should pay me for it. The arrogance of players who decide other players should revolve around them! Emergent gameplay is a nice side effect of Eve's model, but it is not the duty of each player to contribute to it!

If you want this then you go ahead and add it to the game with others of a similar mindset. This is a sandbox (that I pay for as much as you do) and I should be able to play in it however I wish.

Note, that I am not a full time solo player at all, I am just making a point about people who expect other players to play like them.

M
Saira Rasielle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2013-06-20 12:12:22 UTC
Honestly, i just suck at this game. PVP seems an impenetrable tangled mass of ideas where i can't even find the loose end of one thread.

Industry... again, i just don't know where to start.

My point for posting at all is because I really want to do things in this game. But I've been unlucky in my attempts to learn and in the people i seek guidance from.

TL;DR I've had a rough time and I just want to get involved in something more than 'Lets blow stuff up just to get a highscore'. I could play galaga for that. I've been at this game for 3 years+ and have yet to truly get into it.

But i still want to. I'm still Trying.
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#210 - 2013-06-20 12:35:46 UTC
There is a distinction between playing solo and flying solo. I mostly fly solo but I am in touch with other likeminded players through intel channels and forums and such. I certainly feel part of a player community. My choice to fly solo often has more to do with RL patterns than preferred playstyle and I suspect that may be behind many other players decision to go solo too.
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#211 - 2013-06-20 12:46:41 UTC
Davis TetrisKing wrote:
Recently I've noticed a bit more emphasis on the forums about players who play eve 'solo'. From my impression from the forums people tend to dislike soloers (I've read 'eve is a multiplayer game, go back to...' quite a few times lately) so I'm interested to get a bit of a feedback as to what people do and don't like about soloers or solo activities in the game.

*Skip to below for tl;dr*

I'll start off by saying that I definitely have a vested interest in the topic. I am what I think most people would consider a solo player in eve. I pretty rarely group up with other people to accomplish things and having recently moved out to low sec spend most of my time running sites, ratting and generally managing PI on my own.

To me this doesn't mean I have no interaction with other players. I'm not playing a single player game. I'm duking it out on my own in a world full of other pilots that might be able to help me, that I might be able to benefit from or (more likely) are out to get me if I give them a chance. This makes my 'solo' experience far more exciting than anything any single player game could ever give me.

I'm a bit too much of a risk averse carebear at the moment to really get into PvP, but I love the excitement of getting chased around lowsec trying to dodge pirates etc. The way I'm on edge when hauling stuff the few jumps back to high sec. I love raiding WHs knowing that there's a good chance I could die to another enterprising pilot who knows their dscan well enough to drop probes right on me and land on me before I know whats going on. To me the 'solo' experience is so much enriched by the fact that other people are out there.

*tl;dr*

I understand that 'eve is a multiplayer game', and the best way to thrive is to join forces with others. But I like that even if it might not be the 'best' way to go, I can carve out my own piece of eve on my own if I want in a world that is affected by others.

So what are people's main objections to people like myself playing solo?


Play any way you like. Seriously, if you are happy to play solo, then why change that ? It does not matter what anyone else wants you to think or say. You play the way you want, the way you feel comfortable with, period.

Sure, there are very good things about being in a decent corporation, but there's nothing in any rules anywhere that says you must not play solo. You may find yourself limited to a broad range of activities, but do what you do best and do it well.

Anyone trying to tell you how to play is bored. If people are advising you what to do, that's just advice, probably good advice, but you are still the individual making the game 'yours' in your own way.

o7

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Gealbhan
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#212 - 2013-06-20 12:51:02 UTC
Saira Rasielle wrote:
Honestly, i just suck at this game. PVP seems an impenetrable tangled mass of ideas where i can't even find the loose end of one thread.

Industry... again, i just don't know where to start.

My point for posting at all is because I really want to do things in this game. But I've been unlucky in my attempts to learn and in the people i seek guidance from.

TL;DR I've had a rough time and I just want to get involved in something more than 'Lets blow stuff up just to get a highscore'. I could play galaga for that. I've been at this game for 3 years+ and have yet to truly get into it.

But i still want to. I'm still Trying.


a month, a month had passed and you just had to necro it didn't ya. I hope you're proud of yourself as you eat your pudding for breakfast just think of all the forum regulars you've traumatized with you're careless disregard for the "no necro" rule.
How you sleep at night in your sponge bob pj's is beyond me.
Because of you I now have to go and cry to a pat boone record and rock back and forth in a sea of uncertainty because my forum world has been shattered.
Arrow
Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#213 - 2013-06-20 13:09:18 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
I

The crux of the matter is, they DO WANT to partake in social activities, they just have various constraints that prevent them from joining more organized entities.



Very true.

[quote]

Therefore the new gen of MMOs that have those "quick join" features are awesome for a "casual". Once I thought those quick join features would not create friendship but I found out it's not true. Out of 10 groups you will find the 1-2 guys you just like to stick around and add to the contact list for later.



I had a love/hate relationship with a quick join feature in another game. Eventually I met a player though this feature that landed me in a corp/guild of great people.

Conversely, I had a major sense of dread joining these things (or even groups formed from chat) as some players are so under-skilled and ill-equipped it made the endeavor a waste of time. And while the group would wipe out due to this, at least players didn't lose Isk.

I'm just not sure how you would implement something like this in EVE, when people's Isk is on the line. Then there are the eveeel people who might join just to see everyone killed.

I like the spirit behind the idea but people smarter than me would have to figure out how to make it work.


symolan
BamBam Inc.
#214 - 2013-07-09 15:37:11 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
and they have got reasons as yours: RL > EVE.



and that's probably the reason some hate soloing. EVE should > RL in their view.

As I was leader of a guild in another MMO, I know how time-intensive these things can get.

And having kids, I don't have that time any more.

Also, I see the need for TS, but that collides with my current playstyle... (on a notebook, wife at the side watching TV... she just don't like me TSing:/)

so, it's a given that I keep up soloing. Unfortunately.
OffBeaT
State War Academy
Caldari State
#215 - 2013-07-09 16:14:08 UTC
Most solo players realy dont have the time to corp it so they just hang out or they are so hunted for the past history of the game most newer players dont understand they cant be with everything going on.

The Past is the Past.. True Born out of Sansha's blood. A true Lord to Be! True Blood!
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#216 - 2013-07-10 09:32:34 UTC
i don't want to offend anyone but I have a great dislike of MMO players in general. in my experience they tend to be dysfunctional toxic individuals. even the odd ones who don't outright annoy me I try to avoid doing stuff with.

I PLAY MMOs to compete against other players, MMO does not mean exclusively playing with, it can mean playing against. Unfortunately CCP and many EvE players don't appear to understand that.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#217 - 2013-07-10 09:52:06 UTC
dark heartt wrote:
I...

The other major thing is that they feel solo players don't bring any emergent gameplay to the sandbox, so they don't contribute anything to the game.

...


98% of my game play I do my own thing by myself. However my solitude does effects a vast array of corps and alliances. Just because I do not play well with others does not mean I do not contribute in any way to others game play.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Jonny Monroe
Unlicensed Medical Professionals
#218 - 2013-07-10 09:57:10 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
i don't want to offend anyone but I have a great dislike of MMO players in general. in my experience they tend to be dysfunctional toxic individuals. even the odd ones who don't outright annoy me I try to avoid doing stuff with.

I PLAY MMOs to compete against other players, MMO does not mean exclusively playing with, it can mean playing against. Unfortunately CCP and many EvE players don't appear to understand that.


A very quick look around these forums confirms your first statement about MMO players. EVE is in my top 5 list of worst game communities, alongside XBL and youtube.

On the topic at hand; I play small corp play with my friends - Missions when we need to buffer the wallet and lowsec roaming when we don't. However, I find myself with more time to play than them (I work form home) and as a result I do a lot of solo play.

The thing about solo content in EVE is there isn't any. Everything you CAN do as solo is designed to be done better by groups. There could be a number of reasons for this; either CCP doesn't want any solo content, is afraid what true solo PVE content might do to the economy, or just can't be bothered to properly balance it. Mission running is one of the more common solo activities, but because it can be done in groups they have to balance around that, both in difficulty and reward. Would I like to see some special missions with Unstable Acceleration Gates that self destruct after one use, enforcing solo missions that are properly balanced to provide a challenge to the solo player and not the group? Sure. But it's CCPs game and if they don't want to support that playstyle they don't have to. Like any business, if you don't support a specific type of customer you won't have that customer for long. CCP know this, so they've obviously considered the potential gains/losses of supporting solo play and decided against it. Which means that solo players are either a significant minority or are happy with shoehorned content not really designed for them. I don't have the data to say which it is, but I suspect the latter.
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#219 - 2013-07-10 09:58:02 UTC
The guy who runs the 100-ship ice mining multi-box farm plays "solo." He seems to enjoy the game. And CCP sure enjoys his $1,500 per month.

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#220 - 2013-07-10 09:58:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Uoweme
Amarra Mandalin wrote:

Conversely, I had a major sense of dread joining these things (or even groups formed from chat) as some players are so under-skilled and ill-equipped it made the endeavor a waste of time. And while the group would wipe out due to this, at least players didn't lose Isk.

I'm just not sure how you would implement something like this in EVE, when people's Isk is on the line. Then there are the eveeel people who might join just to see everyone killed.

I like the spirit behind the idea but people smarter than me would have to figure out how to make it work.


Just like LFG and LFR was implemented in THAT game.

EvE is like WoW with the ninjas and the hunter that pulls the boss or mob so he can fiend death while others die (and get the repair bill). No different than the guy asking in incursions to join a fleet, you have no idea what he's upto even as an innocent Logi 5.

Each game offers risk vs reward.

It would be nice to have something similar to what RIFT had with dynamic groups. Loot is automatically divided via the goodie bag technique (or can be deposited in the station you last left, via using all those NPC haulers in this game). That would encourage players to mix and mingle and socialize, and train in learning how to fleet (as many don't know it's mechanics). That's group PvE without the hassles of trying to get a group together (which even in corps in EvE is a chore).

And if you want to encourage PvP while even mining, this is a technique perfect for it. Mining zone pops up, miners and protectors arrive, as well as James and crew. Then mining will be interesting as they watch the fireworks show as protectors and James et al go toe to toe. Idea

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell