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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Odyssey] X-L Weapons Balance

First post First post First post
Author
Sushi Nardieu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2013-05-17 21:18:49 UTC
Toramt wrote:
A dread touching a POS shield should be able to get 100% damage against it without special configuration.


Such a rule exists.

The Guns of Knowledge 

Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#182 - 2013-05-17 21:26:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxandrolone
:(

I can understand nerfing the moros tracking but optimal also?

was the Nags tracking actually too high? It has to shield tank really so it doesnt have tracking computers with tracking scripts in the mids like the armor dreads can, this will mean a fit nag will have less tracking than a Rev is that intended?

Regarding pheonix I think a massive improvement would be to change the 5% kinetic damage per level to 5% missile damage per level so it can take advantage of the multiple damage types of missiles. Also reduce the volume of capital missiles a bit so a variety can be kept in cargo.

Doing 100% kinetic damage is a massive massive weakness of a pheonix its too easy to tank 1 damage type
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#183 - 2013-05-17 21:33:20 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:


I don't think he's trying to stop dread blapping, I think he's trying to improve balance between dreads.


I think so to but not sure this is the best way to go about it - I'd rather see some adjustments to the whole dreadnaught package guns, ammo, ship hulls, etc. with player feedback taken into account and more testing before it comes to TQ than doing it piecemeal chucking in some changes to one aspect.
Verlaine Glariant
The Kudur Cult
#184 - 2013-05-17 21:33:43 UTC
About time my beloved Phoenix gets some actual love.

www.amphysvena.org

Zverofaust
Ascetic Virtues
#185 - 2013-05-17 21:35:58 UTC
Makalu Zarya wrote:
if you are gonna nerf the moros then nerf the moros, don't make a useless ship. I haven't done the math but seriously...everyone has a moros because it's the best dread...now everyone is gonna have to get rid of them with no buyers?...great


YOU DO NOT TALK BACK TO CCP
Plexas Aideron
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
#186 - 2013-05-17 21:36:16 UTC
Makalu Zarya wrote:
if you are gonna nerf the moros then nerf the moros, don't make a useless ship. I haven't done the math but seriously...everyone has a moros because it's the best dread...now everyone is gonna have to get rid of them with no buyers?...great


YOU DONT TALK BACK TO CCP M8
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#187 - 2013-05-17 21:36:36 UTC
Verlaine Glariant wrote:
About time my beloved Phoenix gets some actual love.
The only "love" your Phoenix is going to get is another Phoenix, uh, "docking" with it. :D

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Lelob
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#188 - 2013-05-17 21:40:11 UTC
Ouch!

Nobody will be training for the minnie dread now. The whole point was that it would be excellent tracking but now why even bother. Will remain unused with such a heavy handed nerf.

The moros nerf is especially hard. I'd suggest an optimal nerf of -5 to -7km, while mantaining the falloff bonus, and not touching the tracking.

Dreads and especially titans don't track for **** without tp's or webs unless shooting at bc's or drakes so I simply don't understand this nerf. These are not being over-used or abused and seem like they're fufilling a good niche to counter sub-caps. This simply takes another tool out of the hand to counter massive bs or bc blobs with such a heavy-handed nerf.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#189 - 2013-05-17 21:41:31 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:


I don't think he's trying to stop dread blapping, I think he's trying to improve balance between dreads.


I think so to but not sure this is the best way to go about it - I'd rather see some adjustments to the whole dreadnaught package guns, ammo, ship hulls, etc. with player feedback taken into account and more testing before it comes to TQ than doing it piecemeal chucking in some changes to one aspect.


Oh sure, but that's a pretty big job. These changes are, IMO, relatively minor and can be shoved into a patch fairly easily. I think I read somewhere that CCP has moved towards quick semi-fixes rather than making us wait ages for a "proper" fix, which I think is sensible, especially considering that big changes are harder to balance anyway.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#190 - 2013-05-17 21:43:20 UTC
Oxandrolone wrote:
:(

I can understand nerfing the moros tracking but optimal also?



It will also skew autocannon optimal v blaster optimal with XL unless XL autocannons are also getting knocked back to 16000 base optimal. Also wondering if the reason XL blasters were pushed up to 30000 optimal originally has been forgotten/fixed or there could be some further issues relating to this.
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#191 - 2013-05-17 21:43:24 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Johnny thorir wrote:
RIP moros


It's still the best one tbh.

If this is what you think doesn't it deserve to be nerfed even more? Look anywhere and when dreads are concerned it's almost all gallente dreads.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#192 - 2013-05-17 21:48:00 UTC
Lelob wrote:
Ouch!

Nobody will be training for the minnie dread now. The whole point was that it would be excellent tracking but now why even bother. Will remain unused with such a heavy handed nerf.
Nobody except all of PL. Work on your propaganda.

Lelob wrote:
The moros nerf is especially hard. I'd suggest an optimal nerf of -5 to -7km, while mantaining the falloff bonus, and not touching the tracking.
The tracking IS the major problem on the Moros. The optimal and falloff were high for a "close range" weapon, but -5/+5 would have probably sufficed.

Lelob wrote:
Dreads and especially titans don't track for **** without tp's or webs unless shooting at bc's or drakes so I simply don't understand this nerf. These are not being over-used or abused and seem like they're fufilling a good niche to counter sub-caps. This simply takes another tool out of the hand to counter massive bs or bc blobs with such a heavy-handed nerf.
Imagine this: Titans and Dreads, being capitals, are supported by a smaller, more agile fleet. Not a fleet of capitals, mind you. Perhaps a fleet of sub-capitals. Ships that support the big one in doing its job. Not everyone drops 50 Supers on frig, or thinks "Hey we have a fleet of subcaps to kill here....get the Titans spooled up."

#PLProblems

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In Spirit
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#193 - 2013-05-17 21:53:26 UTC
Quote:
If this is what you think doesn't it deserve to be nerfed even more? Look anywhere and when dreads are concerned it's almost all gallente dreads.


Jove forbid that Gallente actually have any ships in any alliance doctrines, right?
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2013-05-17 21:55:28 UTC
Fozzie, I think that you should read this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=228586&find=unread

This is something really interesting that you could have a good use for it.

It is realted to caldari and galente.
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#195 - 2013-05-17 21:56:34 UTC
Oxandrolone wrote:
:(

I can understand nerfing the moros tracking but optimal also?

was the Nags tracking actually too high? It has to shield tank really so it doesnt have tracking computers with tracking scripts in the mids like the armor dreads can, this will mean a fit nag will have less tracking than a Rev is that intended?

Regarding pheonix I think a massive improvement would be to change the 5% kinetic damage per level to 5% missile damage per level so it can take advantage of the multiple damage types of missiles. Also reduce the volume of capital missiles a bit so a variety can be kept in cargo.

Doing 100% kinetic damage is a massive massive weakness of a pheonix its too easy to tank 1 damage type

I had this issue with subcapitals and guess what was told to me as an solution?
"Train another race/ship"
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#196 - 2013-05-17 22:00:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Andendare
Alx Warlord wrote:
Fozzie, I think that you should read this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=228586&find=unread

This is something really interesting that you could have a good use for it.

It is realted to caldari and galente.
There should be a way to downvote someone. This isn't even related to anything dealing with XL weapons. You should really just let the Devs find your post and comment on it without crossposting it everywhere.

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Maggeridon Thoraz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#197 - 2013-05-17 22:05:16 UTC
why all the whines and boos, and all the hard nerfing forth and back ?
why not just remove the dreads and supers and titans, and reimburse all players. get back to the ground table. do all other balancing first and then come back with new ideas for dreads, titans and supers and fresh datas....


honestly, i really think ,ccp you should reset all players sp to zero and let the users allocate the sp to whatever they wanted. you have changed the game so much recently and even more with the next release, that eve is and becomes a totally different game then it was last year..
Makalu Zarya
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#198 - 2013-05-17 22:09:33 UTC
So galente are still best at something...caps and supers, cause quite honestly everything else still sucks, apart from a few select ships. Medium blasters and rails are still worthless compared to any other platform. Small are fine, but they are smalls, who really cares. Larges are really only a viable platform on a non-gal ship, which makes me rather sad.

While the moros nerf, now that I looked more closely at the math still leaves it as the best dread, the gap from moros to say rev is now much narrower than the gap between amarr bs and galente bs, which honestly no one really flies seriously. Now this might change with the upcoming domi which seems to be op, but I doubt much will change with the rest. Time will tell what works and what doesn't.

Next thing you are gonna nerf the nyx right? cause clearly it's op as well and people should fly Hels.
Makalu Zarya
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#199 - 2013-05-17 22:11:37 UTC
Maggeridon Thoraz wrote:
why all the whines and boos, and all the hard nerfing forth and back ?
why not just remove the dreads and supers and titans, and reimburse all players. get back to the ground table. do all other balancing first and then come back with new ideas for dreads, titans and supers and fresh datas....


honestly, i really think ,ccp you should reset all players sp to zero and let the users allocate the sp to whatever they wanted. you have changed the game so much recently and even more with the next release, that eve is and becomes a totally different game then it was last year..


most older players, 4+ years such as myself can fly nearly every subcap perfectly and most caps fairly well. Resetting SP to 0 would benefit the older crowd much more than the younger one. I can think of at least 10m sp that i don't need or ever needed...great let me put it somewhere useful then.

so sorry...terrible idea. Eve at its core has not changed much.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#200 - 2013-05-17 22:12:57 UTC
phalanx III wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tarithell wrote:
Why so much hate for Gallente, also is this applied to titan guns too?


It's to the guns themselves so yes it applies to titans.


...He said while smiling uncontrollably.


Is this also aplied to POS guns???

Oh btw, will you guys revamp it or not? Smile