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[Odyssey] X-L Weapons Balance

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Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#161 - 2013-05-17 20:33:25 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:
RIFT TORPEDO EXPLOSION VELOCITY: 20m/s WITHOUT SIEGE MODULE PENALTY

AEON VELOCITY: 60m/s

CAN YOU SEE THE PROBLEM?



The problem is that you do not understand missile damage math.
I'm somewhat familiar with missile damage math (in that you want a small expl. radius and fast expl. velocity), but are missiles actual AOE weapon systems (like bombs/smartbombs)? I mean, does the explosion radius actually affect that area in space, or is it more for the calculation for damage only?

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ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#162 - 2013-05-17 20:36:27 UTC
I dont think these changes will achieve what you are hoping to. I cant speak for anything but wormhole space except these will not solve dread blapping. As is anything im shooting with my moros is moving 5m/s and heavily target painted, so -15% tracking will not stop be from blapping it.

I think you should look into stacking of webs instead.

Event Organizer of EVE North East
MisterAl tt1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#163 - 2013-05-17 20:36:33 UTC
I don't actually remember any other dev who was as hated for his "changes" as this one.
And yeah, the "everything is to be the same" approach to balance is disturbing.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#164 - 2013-05-17 20:41:07 UTC
ExookiZ wrote:
I dont think these changes will achieve what you are hoping to. I cant speak for anything but wormhole space except these will not solve dread blapping. As is anything im shooting with my moros is moving 5m/s and heavily target painted, so -15% tracking will not stop be from blapping it.

I think you should look into stacking of webs instead.


I don't think he's trying to stop dread blapping, I think he's trying to improve balance between dreads.
Strom Crendraven
The H8teful Eight
#165 - 2013-05-17 20:42:39 UTC
Ranger64511 wrote:
So I'm just going to say this

The term "balance" seems to be more "make everything the same" at least that's what these changes seem to be.


Exactly, eventually there will only be ships that look different but do exact same DPS and have same EHP across all races. We can call it Battlefield 5 in space.
SoulBlythe
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#166 - 2013-05-17 20:43:07 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Tarsas Phage wrote:

Oh stop being a sniveling weasel. Training Cap Hybrid Turret is +5% damage per level, which this change doesn't effect. You still get 5% more damage. The base damage of the turrets themselves hasn't changed.

Try investing in some tracking implants and boosters instead of this very unbecoming public display of indignation.


That's right folks, spend 200mil on implants and hardwires (even if you have something in the slot), and don't forget to take boosters which still haven't been fixed.

Just don't get podded.

Just unplug those expensive implants if your worried about a podmail and the ridicule it brings. Oops
Jureth22
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#167 - 2013-05-17 20:49:29 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Johnny thorir wrote:
RIP moros


It's still the best one tbh.


you mean its the best.x-l pulse laser buff is almost useless.not enough x-l hybrid nerf
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#168 - 2013-05-17 20:50:27 UTC  |  Edited by: ExookiZ
I dont think they need to be "brought in line" more. Moros deals best dmg, rev has best tank and doesnt use ammo, naglfar has best dmg projection and doesnt use cap for its guns. Phoenix can change its dmg type easily and is the best anti-cap dread.

they each have a use and purpose.

Event Organizer of EVE North East
SAJUK NIGARRA
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#169 - 2013-05-17 20:56:40 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hello once again everyone. We've got a small package of tweaks to capital weapons to announce, intended to help bring us a little bit closer to balance between the different dreadnoughts.

For the most part you all know the major balance problems with the class, the relative dominance of the Moros and the fact that the Phoenix has extreme difficulty applying damage to moving targets, even a moving carrier. These changes apply directly to the capital blasters, autocannons and pulse lasers, as well as to the siege modules themselves.

These changes are not expected to bring the class into perfect balance, but it should be a step in the right direction and be something we can build upon as we go forward.

X-L Blasters: -15% tracking, -10km optimal, +10km falloff

X-L Autocannons: -10% tracking

X-L Pulses: +6.666% optimal

Citadel missiles: Remove the explosion velocity penalty from siege modules

Let us know what you think!



Tracking nerf, sure, is not excessive and it balances things a bit. But the optimal nerf on the blasters is rather harsh, they basically won't be able to hit **** with antimatter.
Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#170 - 2013-05-17 20:58:25 UTC
SAJUK NIGARRA wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hello once again everyone. We've got a small package of tweaks to capital weapons to announce, intended to help bring us a little bit closer to balance between the different dreadnoughts.

For the most part you all know the major balance problems with the class, the relative dominance of the Moros and the fact that the Phoenix has extreme difficulty applying damage to moving targets, even a moving carrier. These changes apply directly to the capital blasters, autocannons and pulse lasers, as well as to the siege modules themselves.

These changes are not expected to bring the class into perfect balance, but it should be a step in the right direction and be something we can build upon as we go forward.

X-L Blasters: -15% tracking, -10km optimal, +10km falloff

X-L Autocannons: -10% tracking

X-L Pulses: +6.666% optimal

Citadel missiles: Remove the explosion velocity penalty from siege modules

Let us know what you think!



Tracking nerf, sure, is not excessive and it balances things a bit. But the optimal nerf on the blasters is rather harsh, they basically won't be able to hit **** with antimatter.


It's getting more falloff m8
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#171 - 2013-05-17 21:04:40 UTC
ExookiZ wrote:
I dont think they need to be "brought in line" more. Moros deals best dmg, rev has best tank and doesnt use ammo, naglfar has best dmg projection and doesnt use cap for its guns. Phoenix can change its dmg type easily and is the best anti-cap dread.

they each have a use and purpose.


I'm sorry Exo, but this is totally wrong. Moros both deals the best damage and has the best tracking. Nag has a better shield tank than the rev's armor tank, and also can still shoot when under cap pressure. Rev does less damage than either the Nag or the Moros, tracks worse than either of them, and uses a lot more cap to fire its guns. The Phoenix can still be speed tanked by dreads, even with this change, and the only thing it has going for it is high alpha.

There is a reason you see a whole lot of Moros's in w-space these days, and this change should help fix the reason for that. I have no problem with the Moros doing the most damage, but it should have severe range problems while doing so.

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QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers
#172 - 2013-05-17 21:05:50 UTC
So wake up call to all whiners.

Base tracking of the limited mega ion siege blaster 1, Im using the meta because im a WHer and Im pro, is 0.0054125. Fifteen percent of this is 0.000811875. Now for those that fail at math, and if CCP doesnt fail at math, then the new number WILL be 0.004600625. Again this number is assuming CCP do something funny and completely fail at math.

The current tracking of the Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser 1 is 0.0040512. This means that the moros will still have noticeably better tracking than the rev. Anyone who has ever tried to do dread blapping with the rev knows that it is not bad. Rev blapping is pretty easy.

The optimal range nerf is not that bad either. The moros gets 5 mid slots. So for a tracking dread, you would use 2 sebos, and 3 TCUs. Two tracking one optimal range. Thats 14KM of optimal and 34 KM of falloff. With 2 webbing ships on field webbing down what you are shooting, its going to die. No questions asked, its going to die.


Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#173 - 2013-05-17 21:08:32 UTC
QT McWhiskers wrote:
So wake up call to all whiners.

Base tracking of the limited mega ion siege blaster 1, Im using the meta because im a WHer and Im pro, is 0.0054125. Fifteen percent of this is 0.000811875. Now for those that fail at math, and if CCP doesnt fail at math, then the new number WILL be 0.004600625. Again this number is assuming CCP do something funny and completely fail at math.

The current tracking of the Dual Modal Giga Pulse Laser 1 is 0.0040512. This means that the moros will still have noticeably better tracking than the rev. Anyone who has ever tried to do dread blapping with the rev knows that it is not bad. Rev blapping is pretty easy.

The optimal range nerf is not that bad either. The moros gets 5 mid slots. So for a tracking dread, you would use 2 sebos, and 3 TCUs. Two tracking one optimal range. Thats 14KM of optimal and 34 KM of falloff. With 2 webbing ships on field webbing down what you are shooting, its going to die. No questions asked, its going to die.




One sebo, two tracking comps, two cap boosters, friend.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#174 - 2013-05-17 21:11:25 UTC
QT McWhiskers wrote:
The moros gets 5 mid slots. So for a tracking dread, you would use 2 sebos, and 3 TCUs.
Territorial Claim Units? :P

But seriously, sky is not falling with these changes. Moros was WAY ahead of the pack, and now its slowing down a little and the pack is catching up. I do feel that the -10% optimal is a bit steep. I think -5% opt/+5% falloff would probably be enough.

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DRGaius Baltar
Perkone
Caldari State
#175 - 2013-05-17 21:11:54 UTC
Gallente has come full circle it seems.... INB4 their conquered by a new race
Toramt
Bifrost Light Industries
#176 - 2013-05-17 21:12:30 UTC
A dread touching a POS shield should be able to get 100% damage against it without special configuration.
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#177 - 2013-05-17 21:13:59 UTC
Two step wrote:
ExookiZ wrote:
I dont think they need to be "brought in line" more. Moros deals best dmg, rev has best tank and doesnt use ammo, naglfar has best dmg projection and doesnt use cap for its guns. Phoenix can change its dmg type easily and is the best anti-cap dread.

they each have a use and purpose.


There is a reason you see a whole lot of Moros's in w-space these days, and this change should help fix the reason for that. I have no problem with the Moros doing the most damage, but it should have severe range problems while doing so.


I disagree, moroses are prevalent mainly because of the limited range engagements WH fights usually are, the moros is, and still will fit perfectly and be able to dish out the best damage. the tracking wont change anything as blapping a target webbed down target wills till be just as easy.

Dealing the most dmg and having the best tracking isnt an issue because the moroses tank is by far the worst of the four. The naglfar has a much better burst tank than a rev but for an extended fight the rev's resists will benefit it greater then the naglfar. The rev's damage is atrocious now compared to the nag and moros, and buffing its opt doesnt fix that

Event Organizer of EVE North East
smoking gun81
Doomheim
#178 - 2013-05-17 21:14:42 UTC
good job I don't pay for this game anymore the way all these changes to gallente are happening starting to think I would be demanding my money back.

also set -10Km optimal instead of a percentile for X-L blasters doesn't sound well thought out to me


X-L Blasters -15% tracking, -10% optimal, +10% falloff

X-L Autocannons -10% tracking, +10% optimal, -10% falloff

I would do something like that but hay that's me.Big smile

CCP I'm getting really annoyed with this hatred of gallente ships and weapons in recent dev topics either hate all the races the same or love them all the same but quit singling out the gallente weapons and ships as the " ones in need of most change ".

How many dev's actually play with gallente ships on a regular basis QuestionQuestionQuestionQuestion Because the more I read the odyssey changes the more convinced I am that non of them do.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#179 - 2013-05-17 21:15:55 UTC
MisterAl tt1 wrote:
I don't actually remember any other dev who was as hated for his "changes" as this one.
And yeah, the "everything is to be the same" approach to balance is disturbing.


CCP Soundwave had a 500 page thread on the front page of general discussion. Greyscale has had multiple 150+ page threads. Zulupark had some 50+ page threads back in the day too.

Fozzie still has a long way to go.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#180 - 2013-05-17 21:15:57 UTC
Toramt wrote:
A dread touching a POS shield should be able to get 100% damage against it without special configuration.
Nobody flies dreads "without special configuration." Besides, 1) you *can* hit the POS for 100% damage if you change ammo type and 2) you act as if in order to hit the POS, you'd have to use some sort of crazy no-tank fit.

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