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[Odyssey] X-L Weapons Balance

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Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#141 - 2013-05-17 19:44:34 UTC
Giullare wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Johnny thorir wrote:
RIP moros


It's still the best one tbh.


Cool story, it was bad for years... remember when it couldn't reach reveleation dps even with drones (that u could lose?)

Naglfar = capless turret , damage selection
Revelation = no ammo waste (more space for fuel), good layout for armor tanking
Phoenix = good pos bash, worst by far for everything else (patch doesn't change this)
Moros = dps king, **** on his feet, use cap, use ammo

Now, if u nerf blaster moros will **** on his knees.
In addition u are nerfing also tracking enhancers....... why u try to broke something u fixed?



More space for fuel? You know Dreads have a fuel bay, right?
Kylee Frye
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#142 - 2013-05-17 19:46:59 UTC
How about we get a 50% Tracking bonus for the Revs, maybe they would be finally in line with Moros / Nag?
Giullare
The Candyman is Back
#143 - 2013-05-17 19:47:19 UTC
Grarr Dexx wrote:
Giullare wrote:
BLASTER WILL END UP WITH LESS OPTIMAL AND LESS FALLOFF OF AUTOCANNON
so u need to nerf also small, medium and large blaster to bring them in line.
Hybrid was great years ago, after become **** ( medium rail are still ****), after boost the come back in use and now let's nerf again f-uck you


Less optimal, more falloff on hybrids. Autocannons are only losing some tracking, no falloff.

XL Blasters were out of line anyways.

Neutron Blaster Cannon II with faction AM: 4.500 + 12.500
Ion Siege Blaster Cannon with faction AM: 18.750 + 18.750
New Ion Siege Blaster Cannon with faction AM: 8.750 + 28.750 (approx)

They were out of line in the first place. This change will make them actual blasters again, instead of pulse lasers with autocannon falloff.



Good sir if u check TQ now u will see that adding 10km falloff to x-l blaster u will have less falloff than autocannon x-l, just saying
15km + 10km = 25 km for blaster (+ skills)
28,8km for autocannons (+skills)
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#144 - 2013-05-17 19:48:23 UTC
Las Minna wrote:
WTF! U ****** up suppers. so ppl who get suppers dont have much to do with them beside structure shooting. Isnt so that ppl who get suppers stop playing or just let them rot?
Now u try to make some dreads useless. OMG this game is only for newbs. And im gonna f... off from this game soon.

I like my supper. Usually something hearty like a good pot roast with peas and carrots. We eat supper around 5, how about y'all?

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Giullare
The Candyman is Back
#145 - 2013-05-17 19:49:32 UTC
i know
but 2500 m3 of cargo are handy if u have to bring only 2-3 set of crystals (9 crystals) instead of a crapton of charges or missile...it's not that hard to understand, CAPISCI?
colevir
Immortalis Silens
#146 - 2013-05-17 19:53:48 UTC
Grarr Dexx wrote:
Giullare wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Johnny thorir wrote:
RIP moros


It's still the best one tbh.


Cool story, it was bad for years... remember when it couldn't reach reveleation dps even with drones (that u could lose?)

Naglfar = capless turret , damage selection
Revelation = no ammo waste (more space for fuel), good layout for armor tanking
Phoenix = good pos bash, worst by far for everything else (patch doesn't change this)
Moros = dps king, **** on his feet, use cap, use ammo

Now, if u nerf blaster moros will **** on his knees.
In addition u are nerfing also tracking enhancers....... why u try to broke something u fixed?



More space for fuel? You know Dreads have a fuel bay, right?


You know they also need stront right? A rev goes farther/fights longer without needing a resupply
Giullare
The Candyman is Back
#147 - 2013-05-17 19:55:22 UTC
colevir wrote:
Grarr Dexx wrote:
Giullare wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Johnny thorir wrote:
RIP moros


It's still the best one tbh.


Cool story, it was bad for years... remember when it couldn't reach reveleation dps even with drones (that u could lose?)

Naglfar = capless turret , damage selection
Revelation = no ammo waste (more space for fuel), good layout for armor tanking
Phoenix = good pos bash, worst by far for everything else (patch doesn't change this)
Moros = dps king, **** on his feet, use cap, use ammo

Now, if u nerf blaster moros will **** on his knees.
In addition u are nerfing also tracking enhancers....... why u try to broke something u fixed?



More space for fuel? You know Dreads have a fuel bay, right?


You know they also need stront right? A rev goes farther/fights longer without needing a resupply


+1 @ least someone use dreads
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#148 - 2013-05-17 19:55:49 UTC
Damn now i neee to train to use strong drop, and buy faction tracking comps.. damnit ccp!!
kyrieee
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2013-05-17 19:56:51 UTC
You should have cap boosters in your cargo, not stront, rofl
Meytal
Doomheim
#150 - 2013-05-17 20:04:18 UTC
Wow, and I thought Hisec carebears cried a lot.

I guess everything really is bigger and better out in Null Blink
Luxotor
This Cyno Will Eventually Make Sense
#151 - 2013-05-17 20:09:14 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hello once again everyone. We've got a small package of tweaks to capital weapons to announce, intended to help bring us a little bit closer to balance between the different dreadnoughts.

For the most part you all know the major balance problems with the class, the relative dominance of the Moros and the fact that the Phoenix has extreme difficulty applying damage to moving targets, even a moving carrier. These changes apply directly to the capital blasters, autocannons and pulse lasers, as well as to the siege modules themselves.

These changes are not expected to bring the class into perfect balance, but it should be a step in the right direction and be something we can build upon as we go forward.

X-L Blasters: -15% tracking, -10km optimal, +10km falloff

X-L Autocannons: -10% tracking

X-L Pulses: +6.666% optimal

Citadel missiles: Remove the explosion velocity penalty from siege modules

Let us know what you think!


I don't believe this change is significant enough. Dread blapping is still going to be a major issue.

-Liang


I too sign my posts on Internet forums.

- Luxotor

THE NIGHT IS DARK AND FULL OF TERRORS!
Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#152 - 2013-05-17 20:12:34 UTC
Giullare wrote:
Grarr Dexx wrote:
Giullare wrote:
BLASTER WILL END UP WITH LESS OPTIMAL AND LESS FALLOFF OF AUTOCANNON
so u need to nerf also small, medium and large blaster to bring them in line.
Hybrid was great years ago, after become **** ( medium rail are still ****), after boost the come back in use and now let's nerf again f-uck you


Less optimal, more falloff on hybrids. Autocannons are only losing some tracking, no falloff.

XL Blasters were out of line anyways.

Neutron Blaster Cannon II with faction AM: 4.500 + 12.500
Ion Siege Blaster Cannon with faction AM: 18.750 + 18.750
New Ion Siege Blaster Cannon with faction AM: 8.750 + 28.750 (approx)

They were out of line in the first place. This change will make them actual blasters again, instead of pulse lasers with autocannon falloff.



Good sir if u check TQ now u will see that adding 10km falloff to x-l blaster u will have less falloff than autocannon x-l, just saying
15km + 10km = 25 km for blaster (+ skills)
28,8km for autocannons (+skills)


Naglfars have a base damage modifier of 5.6 on their meta 0 guns, while the Moroses have a 7.92 base damage modifier. I still don't see the problem.
Ayeson
State War Academy
Caldari State
#153 - 2013-05-17 20:12:48 UTC
Two step wrote:
These changes are a good start. I think all dreads (except for lolPhoenix) will still be blapping, but I am happy to see how much this impacts things before further changes are made...


IMHO the only dread with a "Blapping" problem was a moros with a loki support fleet, but I'm a fan of what these changes do for the class.

That and the affirmative action phoenix just got a whole **** ton better.

I ♥ the orthrus
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#154 - 2013-05-17 20:14:34 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
RIFT TORPEDO EXPLOSION VELOCITY: 20m/s WITHOUT SIEGE MODULE PENALTY

AEON VELOCITY: 60m/s

CAN YOU SEE THE PROBLEM?



The problem is that you do not understand missile damage math.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Pesadel0
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2013-05-17 20:19:04 UTC
Dread blapping is an issue? Since when?

I think it is a bad move we dont see dreads , we started to see them and dieing because people jumped them in to BS fleets .
HVAC Repairman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#156 - 2013-05-17 20:22:31 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hello once again everyone. We've got a small package of tweaks to capital weapons to announce, intended to help bring us a little bit closer to balance between the different dreadnoughts.

For the most part you all know the major balance problems with the class, the relative dominance of the Moros and the fact that the Phoenix has extreme difficulty applying damage to moving targets, even a moving carrier. These changes apply directly to the capital blasters, autocannons and pulse lasers, as well as to the siege modules themselves.

These changes are not expected to bring the class into perfect balance, but it should be a step in the right direction and be something we can build upon as we go forward.

X-L Blasters: -15% tracking, -10km optimal, +10km falloff

X-L Autocannons: -10% tracking

X-L Pulses: +6.666% optimal

Citadel missiles: Remove the explosion velocity penalty from siege modules

Let us know what you think!


i am ok with anything that makes the gallente remain bad

Follow me on twitter
Slaveofjita
Doomheim
#157 - 2013-05-17 20:25:30 UTC
The amount of whining in this thread is comical.
eVRiAL
Reveka.
Bad-Touch
#158 - 2013-05-17 20:27:37 UTC
*some common whine here*
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#159 - 2013-05-17 20:28:30 UTC
Unforgiven Storm wrote:
Even with these changes my Phoenix is still the worse of the 4 dreads.

There is something else you can give it to bring it more in line with the others?

Something, I accept anything:

more damage
more hp
better missile travel time

or

even maybe something to fix an annoying thing: allow the guns to fit 5 more missiles so we have ammo at least for a full siege cycle.

please Cry


Not sure where I saw this idea but I believe Removing the Kinetic Damage Bonus on the Pheonix and change it to a general bonus would be good, give it a semi unique edge because it can choose damage type (useful when bashing towers?). Altho I guess could be a bit similar to Nag because Autos/Arties be able to choose damage with ammo as well kinda.
Ranger64511
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2013-05-17 20:31:20 UTC
So I'm just going to say this

The term "balance" seems to be more "make everything the same" at least that's what these changes seem to be.

This is my gate. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My gate is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my gate is useless. Without my gate, I am useless.