These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Proteus vs Ishtar
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Avalon Stormborn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-09-06 14:27:01 UTC
I'm a bit bummed out by the fact that the Proteus can not field 5 heavy drones where an Ishtar can do exactly that. The Proteus is supposed to be the latest and greatest of the GALLENTE ships, and as Gallente are the drone race I just can't understand why the Proteus can not have 5 heavy drones out.

You have to use the proteus in a very specific manner, where T3 are supposed to be flexible. So by giving them 5 heavy they could take away more guns. But atleast the option would be there for you to design the ship like you want it, instead of that 1 setup that is the optimal one.

Since a Protues cost so much more than an Ishtar they wouldn't compete against eachother anyway. Gallente is about drones, and in my book it would make sense for it to have 5 heavy drones just like an Ishtar.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#2 - 2011-09-06 14:39:34 UTC
Signed

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Tabernack en Chasteaux
Phoibe Enterprises
#3 - 2011-09-06 15:51:48 UTC
Signed. As it stands, the Proteus is worthless as a drone boat. Worthless.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-09-06 16:19:35 UTC
Agreed. Drop a gun slot and allow 5 heavy drones.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Doogan Yanumano
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-09-06 17:25:37 UTC
Signed. I agree with ya man.

CCP Please sort this out ASAP as Avalon needs his Drones!!!!
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2011-09-06 19:36:29 UTC
Sorry... as much as I would like that I can only see it obsoleting the Ishtar.

Here's the thing...
The Ishtar can field 5 heavy/sentry drones while the Proteus can only field 4... however the Proteus can field a MUCH more robust tank, has no fitting problems, and can fit a variety of weapons and/or utility that the Ishtar can't.

Also... if you look at the other sub-systems for ALL the T3s, you'll notice that the bonuses they give are less than the bonuses for the T2 ships they mimic. I believe this was done on purpose so that T3s do not/cannot completely replace T2 ships.

How did you Veterans start?
Avalon Stormborn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-09-07 02:15:07 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Sorry... as much as I would like that I can only see it obsoleting the Ishtar.

Here's the thing...
The Ishtar can field 5 heavy/sentry drones while the Proteus can only field 4... however the Proteus can field a MUCH more robust tank, has no fitting problems, and can fit a variety of weapons and/or utility that the Ishtar can't.

Also... if you look at the other sub-systems for ALL the T3s, you'll notice that the bonuses they give are less than the bonuses for the T2 ships they mimic. I believe this was done on purpose so that T3s do not/cannot completely replace T2 ships.


Yes but this could still be balanced up by the subsystems if they gave it 5 heavy. Atleast I think so. The ship is very flexible, but right now, if you want damage, it's basically only one way to go with it. There should be a way where using drone could be able to reach that same DPS.
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
#8 - 2011-09-07 02:37:12 UTC
Sign this as well. It sucks as a drone boat, but it is a awesome DPS platform. Same tank as a BS and can do +1000 DPS.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#9 - 2011-09-07 05:38:55 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Avalon Stormborn wrote:

Yes but this could still be balanced up by the subsystems if they gave it 5 heavy. Atleast I think so. The ship is very flexible, but right now, if you want damage, it's basically only one way to go with it. There should be a way where using drone could be able to reach that same DPS.



No... think ahead a bit. The issue I'm pointing out here is that the Proteus is flexible in all the ways the Ishtar is not. Ergo, if the Proteus can do what the Ishtar can do (i.e. deploy 5 heavies/sentries) then what reason do people have in going for the Ishtar?

Now, you COULD make the argument that the Ishtar is cheaper than the Proteus... but then that counter is knocked down by the fact that the Proteus can "multi-specialize" in more than one area... giving it more bang for the buck.
More than that... cost is RARELY a limiting factor for players. Seriously... look at the number of capitals, supercapitals, and pimped out ships in the spacelanes these days.

How did you Veterans start?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2011-09-07 05:43:32 UTC
the only covops ship that can do 700+ DPS..

but yeah the drone thing, that's important
Justin Cody
War Firm
#11 - 2011-09-07 08:56:24 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Sorry... as much as I would like that I can only see it obsoleting the Ishtar.

Here's the thing...
The Ishtar can field 5 heavy/sentry drones while the Proteus can only field 4... however the Proteus can field a MUCH more robust tank, has no fitting problems, and can fit a variety of weapons and/or utility that the Ishtar can't.

Also... if you look at the other sub-systems for ALL the T3s, you'll notice that the bonuses they give are less than the bonuses for the T2 ships they mimic. I believe this was done on purpose so that T3s do not/cannot completely replace T2 ships.



winner!

See to all you whiners...the BC version (Myrm) has the same limitation because the Ishtar is supposed to be special. Let it be special for god's sake!

I remember when the thorax could field 5 heavy drones. Good lord was it OP.

Back to your caves under your rocks!
Avalon Stormborn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-09-07 10:22:06 UTC
Yeah but the thing is, the Proteus is a Gallente ship. The top of the line in cruisers. Gallente is all about drones, so it makes sense that it would have 5 heavy drones too. It would not compete with an Ishtar because it would be SOOO much more expensive. Ishtar is what I would take to a PvP fight, Proteus for missions. If I would be rich, then yes, I'd might use a Proteus for PvP too, but only if I'd rich.

The thing is, the Proteus CAN do amazing damage, but it's with blasters. If they gave a Proteus 5 drones it would still not come up to the same damage as it would have with blasters, but it would allow us who prefer to fight with drones better damage than with just 4. Note, it would STILL not be as amazing as with blasters, but atleast better than it is today. Basically it just gives us the OPTION to go with drones too, if we prefer it.
XIII'th
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-09-07 10:55:03 UTC
Signed.
Stupid Gila can field more, not to mention how much **** can it take to drone bay.
Kon Illat
Order of the dark snake
#14 - 2011-09-07 11:31:10 UTC
Try this, replace:
Ishtar -> Drake (yes I know the Ishtar is a HAC, and a Drake is a BC, but work with me here)
Proteus -> Tengu
drone bw -> HML

wrote:
Sorry... as much as I would like that I can only see it obsoleting the Drake.

Here's the thing...
The Drake can field 7 heavy missile launchers while the Tengu can only field 7... however the Tengu can field a MUCH more robust tank, has no fitting problems, and can fit a variety of weapons and/or utility that the Drake can't.



Wouldn't it have been funny if the Tengu were forced into more of a hybrid weapon role - much like a Proteus? Ok, don't touch the Tengu - I don't want to see the forums explode.

tl;dr I'm sure that some balancing could be done to make the Proteus a relatively balanced ship and bump the drone capabilities to 125. But then again - when was the last time CCP didn't nerf, but actually buffed Gallente, 2005?
Lt Vente
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2011-09-07 11:34:21 UTC
Gila is so nice to fly...for missions and plex
Didnt tried it yet for pvp but with his missles and drones he
will be mabey some better then ishtar.
Cool
Avalon Stormborn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-09-07 18:41:51 UTC
I don't know much about a Gila but it sounds like a copy of the Ishtar except it uses missiles?
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
#17 - 2011-09-07 21:52:13 UTC
Avalon Stormborn wrote:
I don't know much about a Gila but it sounds like a copy of the Ishtar except it uses missiles?


The Gila has a better tank too.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2011-09-07 22:26:54 UTC
Avalon Stormborn wrote:
I don't know much about a Gila but it sounds like a copy of the Ishtar except it uses missiles?

it's more of a Drake that can field the drones of a Dominix
but has really low cpu to the point where only pve fits are valid.
Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-09-07 22:48:50 UTC
Going to go with no on this one.

I can see the RP reasons why, but from a balance perspective, no.

Its already as good as the tengu, better for short-ranged fleet work, it really doesn't need any more DPS! Even losing a gun wouldn't be enough. It would probably overtake the tengu as the #1 Tech 3 if they had this ability as it would remove the only role they were weaker than the tengu at aka long range harassment fighting.

As it is I think the loki and legion could probably use a boost to catch up. Loki for example, while faster maxes out at about 500-600 dps with any sort of a tank on it.

-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more) 
Avalon Stormborn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2011-09-07 22:52:11 UTC
Yeah but if you could balance 5 heavy drones to be equal to the others there is no such problem. The main problem is basically that you just can't have 5 heavy out when you should be able to have them.

So, either you go blaster and have say 800 DPS. Or Either you can go drones and also have 800 DPS. In reality it wouldn't matter which as the damage is the same. But for the player they would be able to choose to go with drones or blaster. The player acutally has a choice.
12Next page