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Proteus vs Ishtar
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Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2011-09-07 22:59:08 UTC
No, its not, the point is it shouldn't be able to fill every role.
The long range harassment role is where the tengu and legion dominate.

It may not be 'overpowered' individually in that fit, but it gives it the most options of any Tier 3, which isn't what we want. To do both for any other race requires training two ships, except gal. Thats balance as well just of a different kind.

Its not just their power in any specific role, its the number of roles it can fill as well.

-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more) 
Avalon Stormborn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2011-09-07 23:02:48 UTC
I see what you're saying. But in such a case, I would much rather see the Proteus as a Drone boat and nerf the blaster variant, making the Proteus a drone boat as a main role. It is after all the Gallente way.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2011-09-08 09:43:23 UTC
Rhinanna wrote:
No, its not, the point is it shouldn't be able to fill every role.
The long range harassment role is where the tengu and legion dominate.

It may not be 'overpowered' individually in that fit, but it gives it the most options of any Tier 3, which isn't what we want. To do both for any other race requires training two ships, except gal. Thats balance as well just of a different kind.

Its not just their power in any specific role, its the number of roles it can fill as well.


Dude, missile boats, the Tengu especially, are OP in comparison to ships like the proteus!

You can fit the Tengu for good damage at long range and you can fit it for awesome damage at close range. I'll admit, i'm no expert when is comes to missiles but after a quick look at the stats, it looks like you can use the high damage missile/launchers out of web range. The proteus' blasters wouldn't be effective at that range.

The proteus should be able to employ the same tactics. It should be able to use slow ass heavy drones for long range or blasters for short range... Don't even mention rail guns.

And if you think that would be OP, don't forget that drones can be destroyed while missile launchers can't.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Zavulon Sukkot
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
#24 - 2011-09-08 13:26:18 UTC
Avalon Stormborn wrote:
I see what you're saying. But in such a case, I would much rather see the Proteus as a Drone boat and nerf the blaster variant, making the Proteus a drone boat as a main role. It is after all the Gallente way.


Actually, I'm pretty sure gallente was primarily intended for blaster setups -- drone bonuses have pretty much always been secondary for most of the subcap lineup.

Anyways, considering the speed and blasters you can get out of a proteus vs ishtar, just switch from sentries to heavys, orbit your heavys, and blaster out whatever comes close. A 5 heavy drones proteus would probably make for too OP a drone boat.

Don't forget the massive drone navigation bonus you get on a proteus when you have the Augmented Cap Reservoir sub as well. You might max out at 4 heavys, but in exchange the drones are MUCH faster.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2011-09-08 14:07:16 UTC
^ Not so. When is created my character it listed Gallente as the drone specialists so i chose Gal because i liked the sound of that... Little did i know an all drone boat can't compete with an all gun/missile boat. Straight

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Zanziba'ar
Wolf Brothers INC
United Neopian Federation
#26 - 2011-09-08 14:25:35 UTC
It will teach you to get those bloody guns out
  • Mulzvich "Zanziba'ar" Gorath
Shelley09
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-09-14 00:00:42 UTC
OK..i agree Proteus should b better at pve and not entirely dependent on blaster guns as the tengu and other more ranged fitted t3's have an UNFAIR advantage - but to not **** everyone off: make it so the proteus can only go with a drone boat whilst being pve fitted- not buffer tank.
Capt Spidey
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2011-09-17 04:33:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Capt Spidey
yes, it makes sense for the Gallente elite cruiser to have 5 heavy drones! so give Avalon hes drones Pirate
Jon Marburg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2011-09-20 11:47:19 UTC
Proteus really should have 5 heavy/sentry option. Obviously it shouldn't maintain the same dps it gets in its blaster conformation, but it should have the ability to put out some sort of damage projection. As it stands the Tengu can do roughly 700 dps in a <20 km fit and 500 dps <80 km with the Legion and Loki having roughly similar numbers where the only valid fit for the Proteus is a blaster fit of 900 dps at point blank. Outside of 15 km Proteus can only apply 5 medium drones or rails Roll. In regards to the Ishtar, yeah the Proteus would be able to fill a similar role but at the cost of increased train time and finances. I don't see anyone complaining that the Legion is taking the Sacrilege's role or the Loki replacing the Rapier. Don't even get me started on the 75 bandwidth CCP thought was appropriate for the majority of Gallente drone boats. Really I need to deploy 3 different types of drones to maximize dps seriously? Even 100 bandwidth would be a vast improvement.
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
#30 - 2011-09-20 20:03:39 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Sorry... as much as I would like that I can only see it obsoleting the Ishtar.

Here's the thing...
The Ishtar can field 5 heavy/sentry drones while the Proteus can only field 4... however the Proteus can field a MUCH more robust tank, has no fitting problems, and can fit a variety of weapons and/or utility that the Ishtar can't.

Also... if you look at the other sub-systems for ALL the T3s, you'll notice that the bonuses they give are less than the bonuses for the T2 ships they mimic. I believe this was done on purpose so that T3s do not/cannot completely replace T2 ships.


The exception being that a warfare T3 outbonuses an actual Command Ship for whatever unfathomable reason.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#31 - 2011-09-20 20:45:22 UTC
Avalon Stormborn wrote:
Yeah but if you could balance 5 heavy drones to be equal to the others there is no such problem. The main problem is basically that you just can't have 5 heavy out when you should be able to have them.

So, either you go blaster and have say 800 DPS. Or Either you can go drones and also have 800 DPS. In reality it wouldn't matter which as the damage is the same. But for the player they would be able to choose to go with drones or blaster. The player acutally has a choice.


800 DPS with blasters != 800 DPS with sentries. Blasters have a couple km range, sentries can hit out to 50-100km.
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