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[Odyssey Feedback Request] Team Super Friends - Probe Scanning and You

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Olari Vanderfall
Perkone
Caldari State
#741 - 2013-05-12 02:31:43 UTC
Faulx wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
for people who actually like exploration and want it to involve at least minimal effort, not so much.

"Effort" should not mean "busy work". Clicking and dragging probes around in a hard to use interface is busy work. "Effort" should mean"challenging".... Challenging is when there are obstacles, puzzles, and opponents to overcome in an experience that changes each time you do it... i.e. not Aprocrapha style probing, which is always the same boring thing.

*The most interesting thing about it was figuring it out... after your thousandth scan... it's a mind numbing tedium. By having the Preset formations, much of the whole "figuring out" process is gone... so you're just left with the tedium.


A lot of the challenge in Eve has involved figuring out horrid interfaces to get to what you wanted to do. I started exploration Pre-Apychropha because that type of game play appealed to me. It pulled me to low then null sec with my multispec, combs, sifts etc. Talk about tedium. (Similar to trying to reply via my phone right now)

CCPs task is to design an interface that is accessible yet offers many options to mess with in this toolbox. That is particularly not easy when you need to build off existing paradigms. It might be better to design a new system rather than add to the existing. Part of that process involves understanding how the system is currently being used. Trying to figure that out and design something less than a month from release seems a bit naive.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#742 - 2013-05-12 02:52:42 UTC
Rammix wrote:


And don't forget that some people still have deep safe spots (i.e. in the outer space far beyond the last planet). Not as deep as they were in 'ancient' days, but far enough.


Right, legacy deep safes STILL exist; however, I dare you to try to warp to one. Warping to a bookmark more then 10 AU from the last planet in the system is disabled, thus you can use standard combats probes to hunt people just fine. Yes, DSPs were useful in the sense that people could combine them with other probes to have a more advanced version of scanning, but to be honest...I really don't think that justifies keeping them in the game. True, you can use them in tandem with standard probes to lock faster, but it still is redundancy either way you look at it.

Olari Vanderfall wrote:
A lot of the challenge in Eve has involved figuring out horrid interfaces to get to what you wanted to do. I started exploration Pre-Apychropha because that type of game play appealed to me. It pulled me to low then null sec with my multispec, combs, sifts etc. Talk about tedium. (Similar to trying to reply via my phone right now)


Yes, the complexity of EVE is a great thing, but TOO much complexity where it becomes a click fest is just equals unsubs. This is the reason command centers for PI were changed over to what they are now. They are more efficient and faster. Probing as it exit now is sort of slow which is nice I wont complain about that, but the click fest for probing is just evil. THAT I am glad to see go. I played EVE when Trinity was released and to be honest the starting aspect was so damn complicated I said **** it and left.

After a few months and hearing of a new expansion I figured...ok maybe they have made it more efficient and streamlined...so I tried it and got into exploration and after the first three days said nope Im gone. Eventually I didn't come back until Apocrypha and that was only because I heard of the new scanning system coming.

The point im trying to make here is that there is a balance needed for all aspects of EVE, make it too complex and intriguing and you make older vets cream their pants, but newer players just say, "**** it, why should I read an hour on some website to learn out to do a basic part of the game?" However, if you make it too simplified then vets are bored.

From my perspective, with the new scan mods and changes to skills, the actual scanning needs dialed down ALOT, you shouldn't be able to scan down a wh in 30 seconds with minimal skills.
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
#743 - 2013-05-12 03:04:02 UTC
Octoven wrote:
Rammix wrote:


And don't forget that some people still have deep safe spots (i.e. in the outer space far beyond the last planet). Not as deep as they were in 'ancient' days, but far enough.


Right, legacy deep safes STILL exist; however, I dare you to try to warp to one. Warping to a bookmark more then 10 AU from the last planet in the system is disabled, thus you can use standard combats probes to hunt people just fine.



i have a legacy safe that is 134au from the nearest planet, and yes i just warped to it without a problem. stopped reading right there...
Aimee Maken
Atasaki Holdings
#744 - 2013-05-12 03:14:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Aimee Maken
The removal of DSP without some form of skill comp is just unfair.

Unless sites become significantly harder to nail down unless you have astro V (IE 25 % on your strength and what nots), it is not worth it to train V on astro, but rather something like IV on it and III - IV on the scanning specialization and then go about your merry way.

At least refund the entire old skill and let us decide to put how much into it again.

Honestly, I want to know why it is being removed, because the system scanner does not provide the needed functionality that DSP offered.

I hope its not conspiracy like reason, namely to increase the time needed to grind so players spends more time in eve or becomes frustrated and buys plex.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#745 - 2013-05-12 04:01:55 UTC
Kitanga wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Rammix wrote:


And don't forget that some people still have deep safe spots (i.e. in the outer space far beyond the last planet). Not as deep as they were in 'ancient' days, but far enough.


Right, legacy deep safes STILL exist; however, I dare you to try to warp to one. Warping to a bookmark more then 10 AU from the last planet in the system is disabled, thus you can use standard combats probes to hunt people just fine.



i have a legacy safe that is 134au from the nearest planet, and yes i just warped to it without a problem. stopped reading right there...


http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-not-so-great-after-all-deep-safe-nerf-of-2010/

Quote:
A defect reared its ugly head right at the end of last year, detailing a way to "overshoot" a warp, thus allowing you to travel a fairly arbitrary distance in a given direction under certain circumstances. This was fixed by software and marked for deployment in Tyrannis.

Once the actual defect was fixed, we realized that it would also make sense to clear up all the extra bookmarks created as a result of this defect - and, by the by, all the other deep safe bookmarks created by various no-longer-functional legitimate and illegitimate mechanics over the years.


The blog continues by saying:

Quote:
The neatest solution would be to move all affected objects in a given system closer to the sun. However, EVE Development's resident DB guys were booked pretty solid for Tyrannis production, so the quickest solution was to instead make a few code changes to render deep-safe locations effectively inaccessible.


THAT is a confirmation that NO deep space book marks made now or since the beginning of time will work. If you are still using your then A) CCP has overlooked it and it needs to be reported or B) you are lying, I suggest providing a screen shot Big smile Eitherway, that blog doesn't say safes made before the fix were still usable, it states very clearly that NO safes beyond 20 AU will function...PERIOD. Sorry lol but its right there in teh full glory of a dev blog.

I provided my proof that they are disabled...lets see yours
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
#746 - 2013-05-12 04:19:16 UTC
Octoven wrote:
Kitanga wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Rammix wrote:


And don't forget that some people still have deep safe spots (i.e. in the outer space far beyond the last planet). Not as deep as they were in 'ancient' days, but far enough.


Right, legacy deep safes STILL exist; however, I dare you to try to warp to one. Warping to a bookmark more then 10 AU from the last planet in the system is disabled, thus you can use standard combats probes to hunt people just fine.



i have a legacy safe that is 134au from the nearest planet, and yes i just warped to it without a problem. stopped reading right there...


http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-not-so-great-after-all-deep-safe-nerf-of-2010/






i hate to say it but you speak out of ignorance. have you ever made a deep safe when you were able to? i doubt it. if so have you ever made it in a very very large system like Oipo (for example)? if so you would have been happy to realize that your deep safe is still infact very very deep.

you will note that in these very large systems like Oipo the diameter of the solar system is massive. In the blog you reference you can see from the diagram were a safe is moved to the edge of the system radius. the system radius is defined by the farthest planet + 20au. this can be very very far, well past 10 or 20au you are referencing. for me one of mine remained at 134au distant.

you stand corrected. and all that you have posted is therefore in question so please stop posting in defense of this carebearing change to our probing system.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#747 - 2013-05-12 04:36:47 UTC
Kitanga wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Kitanga wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Rammix wrote:


And don't forget that some people still have deep safe spots (i.e. in the outer space far beyond the last planet). Not as deep as they were in 'ancient' days, but far enough.


Right, legacy deep safes STILL exist; however, I dare you to try to warp to one. Warping to a bookmark more then 10 AU from the last planet in the system is disabled, thus you can use standard combats probes to hunt people just fine.



i have a legacy safe that is 134au from the nearest planet, and yes i just warped to it without a problem. stopped reading right there...


http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-not-so-great-after-all-deep-safe-nerf-of-2010/






i hate to say it but you speak out of ignorance. have you ever made a deep safe when you were able to? i doubt it. if so have you ever made it in a very very large system like Oipo (for example)? if so you would have been happy to realize that your deep safe is still infact very very deep.

you will note that in these very large systems like Oipo the diameter of the solar system is massive. In the blog you reference you can see from the diagram were a safe is moved to the edge of the system radius. the system radius is defined by the farthest planet + 20au. this can be very very far, well past 10 or 20au you are referencing. for me one of mine remained at 134au distant.

you stand corrected. and all that you have posted is therefore in question so please stop posting in defense of this carebearing change to our probing system.


Perhaps you should clarify WHERE you are measuring the 134au from before posting that you can warp 134au in a deep safe. The reason I say so is that Oipo is indeed a large system so if your book mark is on the 20au boundary from the edge fo the last planetary orbit then that is NOT classified as a deep space safe even though the size of the system is large. If you are saying your bookmark is 134au from the point of the last planetary orbit outward from the system, then yes that would be impossible.

In other words, lack of clarity can often lead to misunderstanding. TO put it quite frank, I can sit on the last planet in oipo and still not be detected by combats centered on the star, doesnt mean I claim it as a deep safe spot either.
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
#748 - 2013-05-12 04:44:49 UTC
Octoven wrote:

Perhaps you should clarify WHERE you are measuring the 134au from before posting that you can warp 134au in a deep safe. The reason I say so is that Oipo is indeed a large system so if your book mark is on the 20au boundary from the edge fo the last planetary orbit then that is NOT classified as a deep space safe even though the size of the system is large. If you are saying your bookmark is 134au from the point of the last planetary orbit outward from the system, then yes that would be impossible.

In other words, lack of clarity can often lead to misunderstanding. TO put it quite frank, I can sit on the last planet in oipo and still not be detected by combats centered on the star, doesnt mean I claim it as a deep safe spot either.




you still misunderstand. You can have a valid deep safe on the very other side of the solar system from the planet that is farthest from the sun. so yes that most distant planet dictates the overall governing radius of the solar system but it does not mean your safe is on the same side of the solar system as that planet. got it?
Octoven
Stellar Production
#749 - 2013-05-12 04:50:43 UTC
Kitanga wrote:
Octoven wrote:

Perhaps you should clarify WHERE you are measuring the 134au from before posting that you can warp 134au in a deep safe. The reason I say so is that Oipo is indeed a large system so if your book mark is on the 20au boundary from the edge fo the last planetary orbit then that is NOT classified as a deep space safe even though the size of the system is large. If you are saying your bookmark is 134au from the point of the last planetary orbit outward from the system, then yes that would be impossible.

In other words, lack of clarity can often lead to misunderstanding. TO put it quite frank, I can sit on the last planet in oipo and still not be detected by combats centered on the star, doesnt mean I claim it as a deep safe spot either.




you still misunderstand. You can have a valid deep safe on the very other side of the solar system from the planet that is farthest from the sun. so yes that most distant planet dictates the overall governing radius of the solar system but it does not mean your safe is on the same side of the solar system as that planet. got it?


Yes I understood that, so what makes you think someone wont choose to place their probes in that area??

Oipo is what like 154 au diameter, assuming you scan from the center of the system using a wide scan; and also assuming you place your probes in a circular pattern around the system you can effectively cover the whole system in two scans. Once for the interior and once for the exterior. Personally, I scan right up to that 20 au boundary no matter what system im in, and I still dont use a DSP to do it. Yeah, it takes twice as long but doesnt mean its impossible to find you using standard combats.
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
#750 - 2013-05-12 04:55:07 UTC
Octoven wrote:
Kitanga wrote:
Octoven wrote:

Perhaps you should clarify WHERE you are measuring the 134au from before posting that you can warp 134au in a deep safe. The reason I say so is that Oipo is indeed a large system so if your book mark is on the 20au boundary from the edge fo the last planetary orbit then that is NOT classified as a deep space safe even though the size of the system is large. If you are saying your bookmark is 134au from the point of the last planetary orbit outward from the system, then yes that would be impossible.

In other words, lack of clarity can often lead to misunderstanding. TO put it quite frank, I can sit on the last planet in oipo and still not be detected by combats centered on the star, doesnt mean I claim it as a deep safe spot either.




you still misunderstand. You can have a valid deep safe on the very other side of the solar system from the planet that is farthest from the sun. so yes that most distant planet dictates the overall governing radius of the solar system but it does not mean your safe is on the same side of the solar system as that planet. got it?


Yes I understood that, so what makes you think someone wont choose to place their probes in that area??

Oipo is what like 154 au diameter, assuming you scan from the center of the system using a wide scan; and also assuming you place your probes in a circular pattern around the system you can effectively cover the whole system in two scans. Once for the interior and once for the exterior. Personally, I scan right up to that 20 au boundary no matter what system im in, and I still dont use a DSP to do it. Yeah, it takes twice as long but doesnt mean its impossible to find you using standard combats.




who said it was impossible? the issue is removal of DSP, for no apparent reason, because even you above admit that there is no 1 to 1 replacement for them.. you have to jack around with combats, up down all around. ridiculous.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#751 - 2013-05-12 04:59:31 UTC
Kitanga wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Kitanga wrote:
Octoven wrote:

Perhaps you should clarify WHERE you are measuring the 134au from before posting that you can warp 134au in a deep safe. The reason I say so is that Oipo is indeed a large system so if your book mark is on the 20au boundary from the edge fo the last planetary orbit then that is NOT classified as a deep space safe even though the size of the system is large. If you are saying your bookmark is 134au from the point of the last planetary orbit outward from the system, then yes that would be impossible.

In other words, lack of clarity can often lead to misunderstanding. TO put it quite frank, I can sit on the last planet in oipo and still not be detected by combats centered on the star, doesnt mean I claim it as a deep safe spot either.




you still misunderstand. You can have a valid deep safe on the very other side of the solar system from the planet that is farthest from the sun. so yes that most distant planet dictates the overall governing radius of the solar system but it does not mean your safe is on the same side of the solar system as that planet. got it?


Yes I understood that, so what makes you think someone wont choose to place their probes in that area??

Oipo is what like 154 au diameter, assuming you scan from the center of the system using a wide scan; and also assuming you place your probes in a circular pattern around the system you can effectively cover the whole system in two scans. Once for the interior and once for the exterior. Personally, I scan right up to that 20 au boundary no matter what system im in, and I still dont use a DSP to do it. Yeah, it takes twice as long but doesnt mean its impossible to find you using standard combats.




who said it was impossible? the issue is removal of DSP, for no apparent reason, because even you above admit that there is no 1 to 1 replacement for them.. you have to jack around with combats, up down all around. ridiculous.


Well yes of course, and as I mentioned in a previous post Im not hating on the keep them in the game; however, if they were to stay I would only support that if CCP were to implement dynamic base signals for sites...ships meh you can leave like they are. Having that little swift guide to pop a probe out go...eh this is a 0.2 signal, dont want and move on....that is not exploration. That is just playing the lottery and getting to see the numbers before they are drawn.
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
#752 - 2013-05-12 05:12:45 UTC
Octoven wrote:
Kitanga wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Kitanga wrote:
Octoven wrote:

Perhaps you should clarify WHERE you are measuring the 134au from before posting that you can warp 134au in a deep safe. The reason I say so is that Oipo is indeed a large system so if your book mark is on the 20au boundary from the edge fo the last planetary orbit then that is NOT classified as a deep space safe even though the size of the system is large. If you are saying your bookmark is 134au from the point of the last planetary orbit outward from the system, then yes that would be impossible.

In other words, lack of clarity can often lead to misunderstanding. TO put it quite frank, I can sit on the last planet in oipo and still not be detected by combats centered on the star, doesnt mean I claim it as a deep safe spot either.




you still misunderstand. You can have a valid deep safe on the very other side of the solar system from the planet that is farthest from the sun. so yes that most distant planet dictates the overall governing radius of the solar system but it does not mean your safe is on the same side of the solar system as that planet. got it?


Yes I understood that, so what makes you think someone wont choose to place their probes in that area??

Oipo is what like 154 au diameter, assuming you scan from the center of the system using a wide scan; and also assuming you place your probes in a circular pattern around the system you can effectively cover the whole system in two scans. Once for the interior and once for the exterior. Personally, I scan right up to that 20 au boundary no matter what system im in, and I still dont use a DSP to do it. Yeah, it takes twice as long but doesnt mean its impossible to find you using standard combats.




who said it was impossible? the issue is removal of DSP, for no apparent reason, because even you above admit that there is no 1 to 1 replacement for them.. you have to jack around with combats, up down all around. ridiculous.


Well yes of course, and as I mentioned in a previous post Im not hating on the keep them in the game; however, if they were to stay I would only support that if CCP were to implement dynamic base signals for sites...ships meh you can leave like they are. Having that little swift guide to pop a probe out go...eh this is a 0.2 signal, dont want and move on....that is not exploration. That is just playing the lottery and getting to see the numbers before they are drawn.


you should ask yourself why does that bother you that cosmic signature percentages can lead to a good guess as to what is at that sig? you can do the very same thing...

is it because you don't like to race to the final faction rat in highsec plex because Mr Tengu always shows up before you are done? so you want to stump the ability of the professional DSP using prober to find your plex?. but you forget that eve is supposed to be harsh and unforgiving. i personally love that race to that last rat. and if i lose so what.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#753 - 2013-05-12 05:28:44 UTC
Kitanga wrote:


you should ask yourself why does that bother you that cosmic signature percentages can lead to a good guess as to what is at that sig? you can do the very same thing...

is it because you don't like to race to the final faction rat in highsec plex because Mr Tengu always shows up before you are done? so you want to stump the ability of the professional DSP using prober to find your plex?. but you forget that eve is supposed to be harsh and unforgiving. i personally love that race to that last rat. and if i lose so what.




Actually no lol I dont really do 4/10s or 3/10s and the ones I do, usually I am the guy swooping in and stealing the loot haha. It bothers me that people can use these to quickly dismiss signatures without even needing to bother attempting to scan down to ID the grouping of the site. If they did that then, it starts to feel more like exploring. It's pointless really to pop out a probe and know whats in the system...what is there to explore? That takes all the unknown out of it.
Wenthrial Solamar
Brand Newbros
#754 - 2013-05-12 05:33:38 UTC
After having a chance to work with this change on Sisi ....

1. DSP's ... They still Have value, and should be left in game.
1a. Single probe launch, has value should still be possible. ( I know CCP has already said they are addressing this )

2. One of the new scanning modules needs to be a High slot, or a Low slot... all three in Mid is counter to the stated goal of making exploration more accessible, as it strongly favors one racial line early on.
I would actually like to see one High, one Low one Mid, allowing all the exploration ships to be able to fit both a Data and a Relic module, and still scan at full effect ( instead of just 3 of them that can now ) .
Alternately, moving the Relic module to a High would accomplish the same goal.

3. Time to Hack... the Mini game is a good idea, but the implementation is not there yet.
It takes too long to interact with, and is not sufficiently interesting to be worth the effort that goes in to it.
3a. Stacking of modules, the old interaction allowed many modules to try for access in parallel, effectively making the hack much faster. The New system is fully serial, and gains nothing from use of a second module, the effect is to extend the time to hack by 3-5 fold. This may be the intent ... but that is a big change.

4. Scanner overlay; very cool... but not so useful; the looking around in space is a wonderful bit of RP, but not really an effective interface for the job your trying to do with a (probes based) system scan.
Praise where it is due, it works really well with the tracking camera and D-Scan, just not with Probes.
4a. If the Signatures show on the Overlay with out probes now... they should be in the progress bar list as well after I run a system scan.

5. Grav sites in the system scanner..... It adds little or nothing, and makes it necessary ( and boring ) to now actively guard mining fleets ( especially true in W-space ) .
This is really a game play issue, I want more PvP, and this in theory should add more oppertunty for that interaction, but Space is big, and if I'm on "guard duty" I will have to literally sit and twiddle my thumbs waiting for some one to try and jump the mining fleet.
But If I warp off and go run a combat site... my response time becomes too long to matter... so Miners go boom... and I don't get any Pew.
Seems to fail it's goal on both counts.

6. Copy paste ... thank you for fixing this ( I hope to see it on Sisi soon )

Overall, Interface changes are good
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
#755 - 2013-05-12 05:38:19 UTC
Octoven wrote:
Kitanga wrote:


you should ask yourself why does that bother you that cosmic signature percentages can lead to a good guess as to what is at that sig? you can do the very same thing...

is it because you don't like to race to the final faction rat in highsec plex because Mr Tengu always shows up before you are done? so you want to stump the ability of the professional DSP using prober to find your plex?. but you forget that eve is supposed to be harsh and unforgiving. i personally love that race to that last rat. and if i lose so what.




Actually no lol I dont really do 4/10s or 3/10s and the ones I do, usually I am the guy swooping in and stealing the loot haha. It bothers me that people can use these to quickly dismiss signatures without even needing to bother attempting to scan down to ID the grouping of the site. If they did that then, it starts to feel more like exploring. It's pointless really to pop out a probe and know whats in the system...what is there to explore? That takes all the unknown out of it.



but, from what you have written above, i see that you want to dictate how others play.
you personally can explore every single signature down to 100% that you wish to. nothing is stopping you. is DSP stopping you? no. but you want to remove DSP to force others to play as you prefer to play? Eve is a complex game and people should be able to play it as they wish. removing DSP (or even removing readable percentages) is a dumbing down of the game, there is no question about it.
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#756 - 2013-05-12 08:22:40 UTC
Kitanga wrote:
Eve is a complex game and people should be able to play it as they wish. removing DSP (or even removing readable percentages) is a dumbing down of the game, there is no question about it.


Making it more complicated to determine what a signature is not means dumbing down? Currently with 1 DSP I can: See every uncloaked ship in the system, every tower, every drone, every anom, every signature. By using the leet skill known as "reading" I can then ignore sigs I'm not interested in. That sounds like easy mode dumbed down to me.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#757 - 2013-05-12 08:30:53 UTC
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Kitanga wrote:
Eve is a complex game and people should be able to play it as they wish. removing DSP (or even removing readable percentages) is a dumbing down of the game, there is no question about it.


Making it more complicated to determine what a signature is not means dumbing down? Currently with 1 DSP I can: See every uncloaked ship in the system, every tower, every drone, every anom, every signature. By using the leet skill known as "reading" I can then ignore sigs I'm not interested in. That sounds like easy mode dumbed down to me.

So giving scanning a "local chat" of its own is not dumbing it down? Why should you get all the information for free as soon as you enter a system?
DSPs are not easy mode, takes a siginificant time investment, special ships and equipment to use them.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Rockstara
Reaction Scientific
#758 - 2013-05-12 08:50:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Rockstara
I am not a fan of the changes as they are on the test server.

If you had made just one improvement to the scanning system the ability to save probe formations (user defined) would have been the best improvement to accesiblity. Launching a formation all at once would have been cool too.

Instead you've taken away a lot of the functionality of the scanning system - particularly for pvp. I don't want to lose anything. People get upset when the either lose or think they are losing something. Which is why there is such an outpouring into this thread. Please give and not take.

Good start on bringing back 8 probes. Now bring back dsp, copyable sig list (not just in space), and and move the modules to rigs. Make these changes and in homage I will turn on the silly scanning effect - just for you.
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#759 - 2013-05-12 12:40:10 UTC
Quick you tube video of an Eve Uni guy showing how to use the current scanning system now on SISI..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXKFqpEUHPQ

Great job CCP!. Like what i see so far
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#760 - 2013-05-12 12:55:05 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

So giving scanning a "local chat" of its own is not dumbing it down? Why should you get all the information for free as soon as you enter a system?
DSPs are not easy mode, takes a siginificant time investment, special ships and equipment to use them.


You don't get "all the information" for free. You get a overview of anomalies and signatures, nothing about ships or structures. Time investment is a non-argument (waiting is not a skill) and I don't consider a Heron with a expanded probelauncher and a prototype cloak special ships and equipment.