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[Odyssey Feedback Request] Team Super Friends - Probe Scanning and You

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Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#501 - 2013-05-10 11:14:36 UTC
ghost100 Tian wrote:
i only just started testing the new scanning screen but the first thing i found is that once you scan a sig to 100% and you put the probes back at long range the 100% signal is back down

in the old system once you got a 100% signal it stayed at 100% in the list

is that something that is planned to change ? as the old system is rather useful :)


That was already confirmed as a bug.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#502 - 2013-05-10 11:15:07 UTC
Dimakseer Haginen wrote:
inuminguart wrote:
Hi. Please return "Gravimetrics" from anomaly class to signature class entity. In 0.0 players has local, wich allow be safe. But in WH no (really no) safe way to mine ore sites. Now we allarmed when see comabat probes on podscan. But in Odyssey miners in WH will be die die die die and die. Of cause before corp mine in WH we do all prerequisite for his - close static, rescan system for other workholes, dont init new static, our combat for search new signatures. But instantly opened K162 and T3 gang at enter WH + professional clocked tacklers not leave any chanche to survive. Only new combat probes in podscan signal to rewarp in force field. In Odyssey our miners simply instantly die. This really important stuff.

PS sorry for english


Besides that, I would like to note that by allowing to scan "Gravimetric" with help of the ship-embedded scanner, the developers simply transforms "Gravimetric" to a kind of an "Asteroid Belt" and completely destroys the idea of "Gravimetric" exploration.


Finding a hidden belt to mine is not exploring...thats just mining and making it harder for people to find you. Scanning down sites that you can run right then and there instead of taking days IS though.
Jason Itiner
Harmless People
#503 - 2013-05-10 11:21:51 UTC
Will we have the ability to save custom probe formations? And will I really need seven probes in my launcher, even if I only use five to scan? If so, why not change individual probes into packages of seven, at seven times the price?
Garan Nardieu
Super Serious Fight Club
#504 - 2013-05-10 11:35:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Garan Nardieu
Octoven wrote:
Dimakseer Haginen wrote:

Besides that, I would like to note that by allowing to scan "Gravimetric" with help of the ship-embedded scanner, the developers simply transforms "Gravimetric" to a kind of an "Asteroid Belt" and completely destroys the idea of "Gravimetric" exploration.


Finding a hidden belt to mine is not exploring...thats just mining and making it harder for people to find you. Scanning down sites that you can run right then and there instead of taking days IS though.

According to this logic, finding hidden magneto sites is not exploring either. Its just salvaging while making people harder to find you. Finding DED plexes is not probing. Its just a form of mission running while making people harder to find you. You fill the rest...
Sorry, but if exploration was imagined as kind of finding hidden treasures game, then grav sites fitted nicely in that frame, with higher grade ores spawning inside. Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with some, minimum effort being required from people to find and kill miners in low security space, whereas this new system removes even that. And, let's get that straight too, I'm not a miner, I'm the guy that probes and kills them.

Jason Itiner wrote:
Will we have the ability to save custom probe formations? And will I really need seven probes in my launcher, even if I only use five to scan? If so, why not change individual probes into packages of seven, at seven times the price?

You'll find all answers if you read the thread.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#505 - 2013-05-10 11:40:58 UTC
Morpho Aurora wrote:
In halving the SP of exploration skills, presumably people that have already committed to those skills will see their SP refunded and not just get the shaft?

They aren't halving the SP of exploration skills. Seriously, were do people get this information from.
Space Wanderer
#506 - 2013-05-10 11:55:46 UTC
St Mio wrote:
Space Wanderer wrote:
Sorry St. Mio, you are not off the hook yet. :)

>:(


It will be easier for you now, however. No fancy calculation getting the scan strength as input, the signature size seems to be given directly.
Mnemosyne Gloob
#507 - 2013-05-10 12:02:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Mnemosyne Gloob
I havent personally tried out the new system, but from reading here one could get the impression, that CCP thinks the loot from exploration is too expensive.

I am concerned about profession sites not having rats (would this be true for wspace, too?) - if any frigate could go to nullsec, find a radar/mag, do a little minigame and get juicy stuff - prices of decryptors/salvage are gonna drop.

Why show those people that don't carry probes the signatures via onboard scanner? I don't get that, really.

If only 7 probes are 'allowed', why not make bundles or somesuch thing. Ugh

Only 'approved' probe formations?

The PVP aspects are strange, too, although you could argue that combat probing has become too easy over time.

[edit]WTB analyze shortcut Twisted[/edit]
Hellynx84
Nemesis Logistics
Goonswarm Federation
#508 - 2013-05-10 12:14:31 UTC
Just played around on sisi. Im quite happy with whats been implemented. Only 2 things that I would say need looking into are:

100% scan results not staying locked in. ( Think I read somewhere this is a bug)
Having to reselect all the probes whenever you want to resize scan radius. (Hopefully this goes back to the old way of Probes all staying selected)

Apart from those, I think it has been put together very well. Took me all of 5 - 10 minutes to get comfortable with the new system. I live in a wormhole, and dont think this is going to impact my scanning at all, and may even infact speed it up a little.

..
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#509 - 2013-05-10 12:18:22 UTC
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:
[edit]WTB analyze shortcut Twisted[/edit]

♥
Slaktoid
Perkone
Caldari State
#510 - 2013-05-10 12:23:35 UTC
Repost from the general thread, and some more comments:

Scanning system pros and cons:

Pros:
Easy to use/understand for newbie probers.
Sufficient for entry level scanners.

Cons:
Not sophisticated enough for wormhole people/people who scan a lot.
No programmable probe formations (Give us the tools to decide. Do not decide whats best for us, you don't know!).
Tool tips are gone. Cannot easily center on probes.
7 probes are not enough for wormhole dwellers who are maybe scanning three digit number of sigs in a day.
The "Bracket" icons in space are a cool idea, but you cannot interact with them in the usual manner (right click align/warp to x/broadcast etc). This needs to be worked on. And while you're at it, can we please get normal bookmark brackets/icons in space (and even on overview). Thanks =)

To clarify why 7 probes is not enough: When you scan a lot (wh-chains for example), the signature you're scanning isn't the important one, it's the next one you intend to scan after you're done with the one you're currently scanning. 4 probes in 8.0 au box formation will show you the nearby signatures, and 4 probes in 2.0 au box formation will identify all signatures (with good skills/rigs etc). So you can quickly identify ie 20 signatures in a matter of minutes, and only fully scan down the ones you are interested in (wormholes). The quicker you scan down chains, the quicker you can find some potential pew-pew.

I'll come back with more if I feel something is overlooked.

Keep on working guys. You got lots of good stuff in there, even though we tend to focus on the negative, you're doing great.


Edit: The new system is noobfriendly and easy, just slower than what I normally do. Faster when your gonna scan 2 sigs down to 100%, but slower when you wanna scan 100 signatures to make a wh-chain.

I have also tested all types of probe formations and number of probes, something I'm sure everyone who have lived in wormspace for 4+ years, and have scanned tens of thousands of signatures, have done.

It's not about being good or bad, it's about lacking options. Being forced to do something a certain way. To have ones choice taken away. That's whats we object to.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#511 - 2013-05-10 12:54:43 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Octoven wrote:
I like being able to see in space if there are any signatures to scan down before I bother wasting time to launch probes.

This is the exact reason that they should be removed, that is not exploring that borders the realm of farming sites.


It also bears mention that "not wasting time" is the reason behind dropping a DSP, which Octoven says is "gamey" and part of behavior he does not like.

However, I must disagree that being able to see what's in space "borders on farming sites". It's the same thing you do by dropping a DSP, except now it's done for you (whether you like it or not, which is not cool btw CCP) and presented in a fancy new way that happens much faster than the DSP scan sweep ever did.

I'm a fan of the new scan sweep, myself. I'm not a fan of being unable to turn off the auto-sweep and run the scanner on-demand like with the current system scanner on TQ, but in my opinion it beats dropping a DSP simply to see what (if anything) is around.

Except the new system removes a significant skill investment, that usually comes with specialized equipment.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Droidyk
Maniacal Miners INC
The Legends In The Game
#512 - 2013-05-10 12:54:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Droidyk
Ueberlisk wrote:
I HATE HATE HATE the fact that you launch all the probes when you want to launch just one to quickly check systems. It just doesn't make sense to me. (yes i know deep space probes have been removed.)

Is it going to be possible to change the amount of probes launched or can i set my own quick formations?
I normally only use 4 combat probes as it is what I'm used to and it minimizes the effect probes have on dscan. Based on this I would also love to keep the ability to have at least 8 probes inside the launcher for the ability to launch multiple sets without having to spend so much time reloading.


What? You still can launch 1 probe by yourself pushing the scan probe launcher, noone ever said that the launcher will be removed or you couldnt click it to launch one probe after another...
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#513 - 2013-05-10 12:57:53 UTC
Droidyk wrote:
What? You still can launch 1 probe by yourself pushing the scan probe launcher, noone ever said that the launcher will be removed or you couldnt click it to launch one probe after another...


Go ahead, try it. Then come back and say it again.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#514 - 2013-05-10 12:58:30 UTC
Droidyk wrote:
Ueberlisk wrote:
I HATE HATE HATE the fact that you launch all the probes when you want to launch just one to quickly check systems. It just doesn't make sense to me. (yes i know deep space probes have been removed.)

Is it going to be possible to change the amount of probes launched or can i set my own quick formations?
I normally only use 4 combat probes as it is what I'm used to and it minimizes the effect probes have on dscan. Based on this I would also love to keep the ability to have at least 8 probes inside the launcher for the ability to launch multiple sets without having to spend so much time reloading.


What? You still can launch 1 probe by yourself pushing the scan probe launcher, noone ever said that the launcher will be removed or you couldnt click it to launch one probe after another...

No, you can't any thing that is done to launch a probe launched 7, if you have less than 7 probes loaded, it will not launch any.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Perris Korat
PKor A.T. Metals and Mechanical
#515 - 2013-05-10 13:01:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Perris Korat
Droidyk wrote:


What? You still can launch 1 probe by yourself pushing the scan probe launcher, noone ever said that the launcher will be removed or you couldnt click it to launch one probe after another...


No you can't. At least, I couldn't on sisi last night, with a sisters expanded launcher. It was either 7 or none, and it really sucked because i was in a WH with only 5 probes, and it wouldn't let me launch ANY. If that's how it goes down on launch day, I predict a crapload of people are suddenly trapped, or worse, lost, in WH's with no way to probe their way out.

I really hate the way some stuff gets dumbed down TOO much. I liked the fact that scanning was somewhat hard and took some skill.
Egg McMuff
#516 - 2013-05-10 13:07:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Egg McMuff
Ok I take back what i said about the cream buns etc---


I entered a wormhole and scanned for 3 hours (wife was out)

The overlay works well instead of the DSP so that is a good thing in my opinion.

Things to fix ----

8 probes please
timer for probes and scan routine
the 100% bug fixed
copy and paste the sigs please
Column adjustment

Also when you scan and then ignore sigs it would be really nice if you could remove them from overlay as they are ignored.

I also noticed that when you place the cursor over the signature in space you get different noises from different sigs?? could this be to identify what type it is or I could just be a muppet and be imagining it.

cheers
Olari Vanderfall
Perkone
Caldari State
#517 - 2013-05-10 13:18:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Olari Vanderfall
I'm hopeful for the game. Despite CCPs effort to make me a bitter vet, I'll offer a summary.


Like:

The system scanner that lists sigs. It has potential for removing local and allowing for hostile ship detection on screen. It keeps your view in space and away from spreadsheets.

Ability to move probe groups with 1 box and adjust their radius by dragging on the sphere.

Not like:

Removal of a viable probe type. Which would not be necessary if we can design probe patterns at different Au, that maintain their relative radius when the size is changed.

Loss of 8th probe

Sigs are too easy to scan.

Wishlist :

Imagine a system where you scan out a site or group of ships. The sig goes to 100% for everyone in fleet. You would have distance and type of sig displayed in space.

Some sigs require multiple probers in fleet coordinating probe placement.

Keep player skill integral to the scanning process.

Specialized probes.

Sigs react differently to probe arrangement requiring new methods

Ability to confuse probes with active ship modules

Probes that track ships in warp providing an estimate where they will land so you can intrcept
JetCord
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#518 - 2013-05-10 13:21:45 UTC
New exploration modules
There are Tech I and Tech II variants.


Scan Acquisition Array

Duration Bonus = -10% TI, -20% TII

Scan Rangefinding Array

Scan Strength bonus = 10% TI, 20% TII

Scan Pinpointing Array

Maximum Scan deviation = -20% TI, -40% T II



i noticed that the skill requirement for T1 and T2 version for these modules are the same!

is this intended so that we go straight to T2 version instead of using the T1 version?
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#519 - 2013-05-10 13:24:16 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
As a matter of fact, they are turning exploration into mission running. Dumb and straightforward money grind.

Pro-Tip it always was. Explorers just got to lie to themselves it wasn't. Well... the "slow" ones anyway.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#520 - 2013-05-10 13:25:37 UTC
Olari Vanderfall wrote:

Keep player skill integral to the scanning process.


CCP is against player and character skills affecting scanning, their plan is to turn it into "pres butan, receive bacon". In the next iteration probes are removed completely, and you will get all sigs and ships warpable with one pass of Discovery Scanner.

.