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[Odyssey Feedback Request] Team Super Friends - Probe Scanning and You

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Olari Vanderfall
Perkone
Caldari State
#441 - 2013-05-10 01:12:05 UTC
Exploration is entering a system and wondering if there is anything worthwhile to seek, dropping probes and taking the manual effort to actually determine what is there via skill and knowledge.

Exploration is seeking prey by using the directional scanner, locating the target, warping out of scan range, arranging probes and then dropping them on target ready to warp.

Exploration is developing the skills to probe effectively utilizing multiple probe types and developing your own scanning style.

etc.etc.etc.

Exploration is not a system-wide scan when I enter a system and see sigs all around me. Then click a buttan, move a box, click and get sigs.

If you want to have new players recognize there are other things out there then do that, but don't make it so simple that there is no depth other than to train skills.

There are so many other directions probing could go.

Improve it so you can actually see where ships are warping to. If I drop a probe in system, maybe I see a trajectory of where ships are headed so Intelligence of ship movement can be collected

Multiple probe types. Perhaps you're hunting a T3 and could use specialized probes that improve your scan strength vs this type of ship.

Probe interference. Probes that give false intelligence or lead someone into a trap.

This is what I want. Make it simple to get into, but once in, offer specilization. That will keep players hooked. There are many paths in Eve. Generate the interest, then develop those paths.

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#442 - 2013-05-10 01:17:28 UTC
Olari Vanderfall wrote:
Exploration is entering a system and wondering if there is anything worthwhile to seek, dropping probes and taking the manual effort to actually determine what is there via skill and knowledge.

Exploration is seeking prey by using the directional scanner, locating the target, warping out of scan range, arranging probes and then dropping them on target ready to warp.

Exploration is developing the skills to probe effectively utilizing multiple probe types and developing your own scanning style.

etc.etc.etc.

Exploration is not a system-wide scan when I enter a system and see sigs all around me. Then click a buttan, move a box, click and get sigs.

Oddly enough, I don't really see the difference between what the system scanner will do and using a single DSP currently does. Same for move box, click button as compared to shift-click move box, click button.
Roel Yento
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#443 - 2013-05-10 01:24:04 UTC
I use a deep space probe placed way out of scan range and out of range of other probes around the system to scan if new ship sigs pop up or new signatures. Doing this allows me to keep tabs in wormholes without others seeing my probes. With the removal of deep space probes you are making it so everyone and their mom will be able to see your probes out. What is wrong with having deep space probes in the game?

I normally use 1 dsp to cover system and then 7 core probes for scanning down the sigs, disable the dsp when needed. While i like many of the probe changes and am not opposed to the new system. My only issue is not having anything to cover extremely large ranges. If you can explain why dsp's are pointless then maybe i'd be fine with the idea.
Olari Vanderfall
Perkone
Caldari State
#444 - 2013-05-10 01:27:41 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Oddly enough, I don't really see the difference between what the system scanner will do and using a single DSP currently does. Same for move box, click button as compared to shift-click move box, click button.


Yeah it isn't much different, except you had to train for it and actually use it if you wanted information. As for the move box, I was referring to dropping 7 probes with a click and moving the entire thing around.

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#445 - 2013-05-10 01:28:16 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Olari Vanderfall wrote:
Exploration is entering a system and wondering if there is anything worthwhile to seek, dropping probes and taking the manual effort to actually determine what is there via skill and knowledge.

Exploration is seeking prey by using the directional scanner, locating the target, warping out of scan range, arranging probes and then dropping them on target ready to warp.

Exploration is developing the skills to probe effectively utilizing multiple probe types and developing your own scanning style.

etc.etc.etc.

Exploration is not a system-wide scan when I enter a system and see sigs all around me. Then click a buttan, move a box, click and get sigs.

Oddly enough, I don't really see the difference between what the system scanner will do and using a single DSP currently does.

Dedication to the exploration way of life.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#446 - 2013-05-10 01:31:04 UTC
Possibly covered, but:

The description of the Parity decryptors says that the modifier for the ME is 1. All the others have a + or -.

Was the change in the ME adjustment from 3 to 4 deliberate for the Process decryptors?

And did someone break the Data Interfaces, so they're now consumed during invention? (On TQ, they're not.) Because it sure looks like they are on SiSi

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#447 - 2013-05-10 01:34:56 UTC
Olari Vanderfall wrote:

A great post on ways to improve upon PvP scanning.

Scanning could go in many new directions, as the poster above described a great way to improve PvP scanning.
Exploration and PvE scanning could be improved as well, there is a good thread in F&I about new ways of escalation.
That could be expanded upon with Relic and Data sites giving a possible location to a hidden pirate base, a expedition if you will.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Maggeridon Thoraz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#448 - 2013-05-10 01:39:43 UTC
Roel Yento wrote:


I normally use 1 dsp to cover system and then 7 core probes for scanning down the sigs, disable the dsp when needed. While i like many of the probe changes and am not opposed to the new system. My only issue is not having anything to cover extremely large ranges. If you can explain why dsp's are pointless then maybe i'd be fine with the idea.



i do the same :1 dsp and 7 core. made totally sense for me using 8 probes. I think wh space will be now even safer than ever with theses scan changes coming
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#449 - 2013-05-10 01:47:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Dedication to the exploration way of life.

That seems too subjective to be actionable, unless the fundamental meaning is to make it tedious to the point of discouraging participation. I'd prefer that not to be the goal.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#450 - 2013-05-10 01:53:45 UTC
So I experimented with this last night.

1 - It took me about 15 minutes to realise its meant to be used hands-off keyboard, and as soon as you mess with the probe sizes by right clicking in the UI, you ruin everything, and have to max size the probes again to fix it - in some ways this can get into near unfixable states, and will have new players stuck as a result, and we won't be able to explain to them what went wrong.

2 - it forgets 100% sigs, which is tiresome.

3 - the sweep formation has holes in it, and produces unreliable results, so there is -->>>>>> NO <<<<<<<-- time saving because of this system. ie I pop the sweep out, and then I have to sit there and hand adjust the sweep to reposition all the probes to actually contain the real positions of the celestials. This is as much work as putting together a standard box for pinpointing, because its not rote like building a pinpoint box. I went into a wormhole and then the really tiresome nature of this became very apparent.

4 - I detected no anomolies at all in half a dozen systems.
Zedah Zoid
Good Eats
#451 - 2013-05-10 01:58:26 UTC
Well, might as well add my two cents.

1) I don't like the way it launches 7 probes by default. The number to launch should be selectable. It's fine if you want to make 7 (or better yet, 8) the default.

2) I would like to see sigs removed from the UI overlay in WH space for obvious reasons. Keep the anoms on there because they are accessible with the onboard scanner today. Maybe the lore could be updated such that sigs in K-space appear on the UI overlay due to some assistance from the stargate network positioning functions or whatever. But in Wormholes it would be nice to still not know about sigs unless you scan for them with probes. At least in my opinion. Yes, it's a different game mechanice. WH space is a different game mechanic. Eve is hard. HTFU.

3) 8 probes would be nice. Is not game breaking to leave this out but see 1) above.

4) The auto-recall upon jumping should be configurable so you can disable it. There are use cases where leaving probes in a system while you are next door can result in fun.

5) While you're at it, a slider to select D-scan range would be awesome, and it should be in AU to match the UI overlay info.
Olari Vanderfall
Perkone
Caldari State
#452 - 2013-05-10 02:02:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Olari Vanderfall
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Dedication to the exploration way of life.

That seems to subjective to be actionable, unless the fundamental meaning is to make it tedious to the point of discouraging participation. I'd prefer that not to be the goal.


I'd prefer it not to be the goal as well. I don't think what I described need to be tedious. I do like the ability to launch multiple probes in pre-set patterns at the push of a button.

What I don't like is the simplified nature of what we're getting. 2 probe types, 2 formations that I don't currently use. The loss of an 8th probe which offered multiple different methods to scan, including 2 sigs at a time. I'm all for getting rid of tedium, but not at the expense of deeper gameplay. It takes skill to lay out 8 probes in the pattern I want with the probes I want. I'll concede it can be tedious to spend <30 seconds to setup your probes, but if you're going to take away something that required skill due to dedicating myself to learing how to actually lay them out at a decent speed then replace it with something else that requires skill, not just a click.
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#453 - 2013-05-10 02:05:27 UTC
Zedah Zoid wrote:


5) While you're at it, a slider to select D-scan range would be awesome, and it should be in AU to match the UI overlay info.


So much this. The current UI inconsistency doesn't seem very 250th century at all and dare I say is immersion breaking for that reason.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#454 - 2013-05-10 02:12:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Olari Vanderfall wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Dedication to the exploration way of life.

That seems to subjective to be actionable, unless the fundamental meaning is to make it tedious to the point of discouraging participation. I'd prefer that not to be the goal.


I'd prefer it not to be the goal as well. I don't think what I described need to be tedious. I do like the ability to launch multiple probes in pre-set patterns at the push of a button.

What I don't like is the simplified nature of what we're getting. 2 probe types, 2 formations that I don't currently use. The loss of an 8th probe which offered multiple different methods to scan, including 2 sigs at a time. I'm all for getting rid of tedium, but not at the expense of deeper gameplay. It takes skill to lay out 8 probes in the pattern I want with the probes I want. I'll concede it can be tedious to spend <30 seconds to setup your probes, but if you're going to take away something that required skill due to dedicating myself to learing how to actually lay them out at a decent speed then replace it with something else that requires skill, not just a click.

To be honest I think the majority of this complaint could be resolved by simply not having presets and just allowing people to save their own formations. That and not mandating 7 probes.

Edit: To be more honest I'd like the whole thing to be more robust and retain the 8th probe. Being able to designate my own formations of a user specified number of probes and in the case of 8 probes operate 2 independent formations of 4 probes for instance.
Maggeridon Thoraz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#455 - 2013-05-10 02:20:04 UTC
a slider for d-scan would be nice that automatically converts from km to au once its is >= 1 au

Ciba Lexlulu
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#456 - 2013-05-10 02:21:08 UTC
I was playing around with the new probing mechanic and trying to find Radar (new Data) and Magneto (new Relic) sites. Unfortunately only can find Relic sites. Unless something is broken, out of 4 Relic sites in Null and Low in Sisi, there are no 'cans' to be hacked/analyzed with the new Relic analyzer.

Has this been seeded in Sisi?
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#457 - 2013-05-10 02:27:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Karsa Egivand
Please run this by a panel of selected players who have varying styles of probing.

Fleet scouts/punters, combat probers for bomber gangs, w-space residents, w-space PvPers, etc.

Don't just assume nobody here knows what they are talking about or they just aren't able to adapt. There are some really critically broken things in here. Never forget that a good prober is a profession onto itself (not a game-intended one, but a VERY valuable one for a given corporation).


  • 100% signatures being lost when the new scan doesnt cover them
  • difficult to keep track of the scan range of your probes, as they are no longer listed right there
  • resizing columns
  • defaulting probes on the sun (why?)
  • i find the use of mid-slots for the scanning modules very problematic
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#458 - 2013-05-10 02:29:13 UTC
As a matter of fact, they are turning exploration into mission running. Dumb and straightforward money grind.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

Jack Ogeko
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#459 - 2013-05-10 02:34:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Ogeko
i'm little confused
please correct me if i mistake something,
they delate dsp, but give new Sensor Overlay Scan wich should work like dps,
ofcorse it not work yet like dsp but ccp work on it?
and they do this becouse they wish to make from scaning more simple thing, with out waiting for astrometics 5?
or they not plan to improve this more and leave it like is it rigth now, with hope there will be any riot?
Octoven
Stellar Production
#460 - 2013-05-10 03:09:29 UTC
Jack Ogeko wrote:
i'm little confused
please correct me if i mistake something,
they delate dsp, but give new Sensor Overlay Scan wich should work like dps,
ofcorse it not work yet like dsp but ccp work on it?
and they do this becouse they wish to make from scaning more simple thing, with out waiting for astrometics 5?
or they not plan to improve this more and leave it like is it rigth now, with hope there will be any riot?


To clear your confusion, they want to give ALL players equal footing in KNOWING how many IDs are in any system no matter how small or large the system is which replaces the DSP uses. However, you still need skills to scan faster. Yes, scanning is kind of fast for new players, but skilled players can do it even faster. The actual scan time for analysis is the same 5-10 seconds, the only thing that is making it faster is the better scan deviation and strength.

Everyone is reacting negatively to this new interface because it is COMPLETELY alien to how we think of EVE and sometimes that doesnt sit well with players. However, I think its a good change. Skills in EVE allow players to have an advantage over others, this is the essence of the game, but when that gap is too large...it needs fixed.

Although some players enjoy taking time to actually sit and scan, some of us (including me) would rather spend our time running the sites we scan rather then taking that whole time to scan. I don't want to spend 70% of my time scanning and 30% running sites. With the new change its more like 50-50 now and that allows players to run MORE sites in less time and thus make more money.