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Dev Blog: Resource Shakeup in Odyssey: Just don’t call it a Cataclysm + Companion blog

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Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#841 - 2013-05-06 19:29:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Some will mine ice when it'll be that high, it'll still be an inferior income compared to most others.
Imo it has to go to 2500 pu to really push the switch.
Even then, it'll be done by:

- bot farms

- big alliances with tons of space to accomodate such stuff and lots of newer characters that might opt for that.

Since CCP are actually cracking down on botting now I don't think you have to worry about those ice bot farms we used to constantly see in highsec nearly as much.

Good job trying to insinuate that nullsec is the home of botting despite CCP's own stats that 75% of bots found are in Empire though.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#842 - 2013-05-06 19:57:39 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
So I took the data he provided involving topes that cost 2500 isk and made a spreadsheet. I used a quantum laffo curve to extrapolate the supply and demand mechanics of the trickle-down ass-up ozone economy which showed that I should double what ozone is worth in my spreadsheet. Basic knowledge of econ101 tells us to ignore stront and heavy water because who cares.

http://i.imgur.com/TBMtek7.jpg


Which brings me to this.
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal
Remember that yield is being doubled in about a month, so go ahead and double the isk values here.

http://i.imgur.com/i1gib3L.jpg



e: Wrong screenshot.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#843 - 2013-05-06 21:04:41 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Everyone likes a good discussion, including me. But please people, keep it on topic, constructive and above all civil!

I have removed several rule breaking posts (and those that quoted them) and let some edge cases stay.

Thread un-locked.

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ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#844 - 2013-05-07 07:25:35 UTC
I wish to sincerely thank ISD Ezwal for some massive and thankless work he has done!

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Rondee
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#845 - 2013-05-07 14:46:30 UTC
Ok, so now all we need in order to find a grav site is a one-click operation instead of actually scanning it? Seriously, CCP?
ISD Cura Ursus
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#846 - 2013-05-07 19:58:14 UTC
Removed a rumor mongering post.

Please refrain from posting rumors and suppositions.

ISD Cura Ursus

Lieutenant Commander

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
LoanWolf Tivianne
Ace's And 8's
#847 - 2013-05-08 07:52:45 UTC
no post from CCP Fozzie in like 5000 pages and edited down to 40 ish pages. lots of posts removed by isd im guessing this is a dead horse

i just have a few questions at the very least one i would like answered.
1) risk verses reward in WH space in regard to graves being removed as a sig into a unknown.


i have no problem with the risk reward thing i just honestly dont see the increase of reward verses increased danger that this adds

yea my spelling sucks so do you go back to work school teacher your not wanted here
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#848 - 2013-05-08 10:46:07 UTC
LoanWolf Tivianne wrote:
no post from CCP Fozzie in like 5000 pages and edited down to 40 ish pages. lots of posts removed by isd im guessing this is a dead horse

i just have a few questions at the very least one i would like answered.
1) risk verses reward in WH space in regard to graves being removed as a sig into a unknown.


i have no problem with the risk reward thing i just honestly dont see the increase of reward verses increased danger that this adds


I'm going to assume you've just missed the 10 posts I've made in this thread so far, as well as the 6 I made in the main discussion thread in the Science and Industry subforum. Easy mistake in long and active threads.
I've been watching this thread every day, just haven't had a lot of time to post in the last couple days between work and national holidays and the fanfest flu. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten you.

As for the risk/reward balance in WH ore sites, whether the reward is worth it to you is of course subjective, but most ores in wormholes are increasing in value and a few of them are doubling in value. You can't argue that the reward isn't being increased. I'm confident that the risk can be managed, especially since I know for a fact there will be tricks in the new scanner system that you smart wormholers will be able to twist to your advantage. Smile

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Cadava Mendosa
#849 - 2013-05-08 11:23:21 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
LoanWolf Tivianne wrote:
no post from CCP Fozzie in like 5000 pages and edited down to 40 ish pages. lots of posts removed by isd im guessing this is a dead horse

i just have a few questions at the very least one i would like answered.
1) risk verses reward in WH space in regard to graves being removed as a sig into a unknown.


i have no problem with the risk reward thing i just honestly dont see the increase of reward verses increased danger that this adds


I'm going to assume you've just missed the 10 posts I've made in this thread so far, as well as the 6 I made in the main discussion thread in the Science and Industry subforum. Easy mistake in long and active threads.
I've been watching this thread every day, just haven't had a lot of time to post in the last couple days between work and national holidays and the fanfest flu. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten you.

As for the risk/reward balance in WH ore sites, whether the reward is worth it to you is of course subjective, but most ores in wormholes are increasing in value and a few of them are doubling in value. You can't argue that the reward isn't being increased. I'm confident that the risk can be managed, especially since I know for a fact there will be tricks in the new scanner system that you smart wormholers will be able to twist to your advantage. Smile


Nowwwwww you have me seriously intrigued Fozzie. Keep up the good work, I'm dying to get my hands on the new systems. I am terrified for the WH miners though. though these "tricks" I am looking forward to learning :)
Cadava Mendosa
#850 - 2013-05-08 12:28:39 UTC
actually now you mention it. we were told there would be a Dev blog explaining the new system shortly after fanfest. Can I send you over a Charon full of Flu medication if it means seeing that Dev blog? :P
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#851 - 2013-05-08 12:29:40 UTC
Cadava Mendosa wrote:
actually now you mention it. we were told there would be a Dev blog explaining the new system shortly after fanfest. Can I send you over a Charon full of Flu medication if it means seeing that Dev blog? :P


I can do you one better. The new scanner should be on sisi later today.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Cadava Mendosa
#852 - 2013-05-08 12:45:31 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Cadava Mendosa wrote:
actually now you mention it. we were told there would be a Dev blog explaining the new system shortly after fanfest. Can I send you over a Charon full of Flu medication if it means seeing that Dev blog? :P


I can do you one better. The new scanner should be on sisi later today.


Ok you've definitely earnt yourself a charon load of cookies too. and some exotic dancers for good measure.

Now... only 4 hours till Hometime...
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#853 - 2013-05-08 13:26:26 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
As for the risk/reward balance in WH ore sites, whether the reward is worth it to you is of course subjective, but most ores in wormholes are increasing in value and a few of them are doubling in value. You can't argue that the reward isn't being increased. I'm confident that the risk can be managed, especially since I know for a fact there will be tricks in the new scanner system that you smart wormholers will be able to twist to your advantage. Smile


Well...the prices of ores have not come up enough that mining ore is anywhere near as lucrative as mining gas or pewing Sleepers. It will all depend on the terrain of the wormhole in which the grav spawns. The threshold of "this is too hard to defend and it's not worth it compared to other things I can do" is now much lower. Even if you doubled the value of every single ore, it still wouldn't measure up to the other ways of making isk.

I appreciate that this maneuver heavily favors the hunter (I do so look forward to it), but I worry that the prey may dwindle. I certainly won't be mining nearly as often, and I'm not the world's most cautious miner to begin with.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Cadava Mendosa wrote:
actually now you mention it. we were told there would be a Dev blog explaining the new system shortly after fanfest. Can I send you over a Charon full of Flu medication if it means seeing that Dev blog? :P


I can do you one better. The new scanner should be on sisi later today.


I am excited for party times.
Raven Solaris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#854 - 2013-05-08 13:37:19 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Cadava Mendosa wrote:
actually now you mention it. we were told there would be a Dev blog explaining the new system shortly after fanfest. Can I send you over a Charon full of Flu medication if it means seeing that Dev blog? :P


I can do you one better. The new scanner should be on sisi later today.


Well then, time to reinstall Sisi.
Sylvia Nardieu
Super Serious Fight Club
#855 - 2013-05-08 13:45:39 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

As for the risk/reward balance in WH ore sites, whether the reward is worth it to you is of course subjective, but most ores in wormholes are increasing in value and a few of them are doubling in value. You can't argue that the reward isn't being increased. I'm confident that the risk can be managed, especially since I know for a fact there will be tricks in the new scanner system that you smart wormholers will be able to twist to your advantage. Smile


Ok, so let's say that wh residents will be able to manage their risk to a certain degree. What about lowsec and risk vs reward? I'm shooting blind here but my guess is that it was (next to npc nullsec) the least active area in terms of mining ores. I really can't see how the proposed changes will make lowsec mining any more viable, but can see how it will be less the case.
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#856 - 2013-05-08 13:58:55 UTC
Sylvia Nardieu wrote:
Ok, so let's say that wh residents will be able to manage their risk to a certain degree. What about lowsec and risk vs reward? I'm shooting blind here but my guess is that it was (next to npc nullsec) the least active area in terms of mining ores. I really can't see how the proposed changes will make lowsec mining any more viable, but can see how it will be less the case.

Don't you have local in lowsec?
Sylvia Nardieu
Super Serious Fight Club
#857 - 2013-05-08 14:32:59 UTC
Sephira Galamore wrote:
Sylvia Nardieu wrote:
Ok, so let's say that wh residents will be able to manage their risk to a certain degree. What about lowsec and risk vs reward? I'm shooting blind here but my guess is that it was (next to npc nullsec) the least active area in terms of mining ores. I really can't see how the proposed changes will make lowsec mining any more viable, but can see how it will be less the case.

Don't you have local in lowsec?


Since when having local equals balancing risk and reward What?.
Kadl
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#858 - 2013-05-08 14:54:16 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I'm going to assume you've just missed the 10 posts I've made in this thread so far, as well as the 6 I made in the main discussion thread in the Science and Industry subforum. Easy mistake in long and active threads.
I've been watching this thread every day, just haven't had a lot of time to post in the last couple days between work and national holidays and the fanfest flu. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten you.

As for the risk/reward balance in WH ore sites, whether the reward is worth it to you is of course subjective, but most ores in wormholes are increasing in value and a few of them are doubling in value. You can't argue that the reward isn't being increased. I'm confident that the risk can be managed, especially since I know for a fact there will be tricks in the new scanner system that you smart wormholers will be able to twist to your advantage. Smile


I have avoided continuing my arguments on this thread. I believe your previous response was clear about grav sites, and that no further arguments could stop this change. Your comments here reinforce my evaluation of the situation. It is clear to me that valid arguments (although perhaps not sufficiently persuasive arguments) can be made for some individuals that the rewards are not increasing. Given your firm determination I do not see any need to go into the details. I just think you need to know that there are reasonable people who disagree with you despite your position and firm beliefs.

I will be happy to review these "tricks," and consider whether they truly help the situation.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#859 - 2013-05-08 17:07:08 UTC
Update on the Ice anom composition numbers and a change to Krystallos:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2994968

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Sassums
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#860 - 2013-05-09 05:11:54 UTC
Whatever Fozzie is smoking either A isn't enough, or B needs to be shared because to think the risk vs reward by changing the way grav sites are discovered is laughable at best. Making something easier is only something SOE would do (See their SWG disaster).

It makes absolutely no sense for me to be able to instantly warp to a hidden Grav Site within a WH and destroy the folks mining there without as much as a single form of warning. The only warning they have is if someone within the corp or alliance in the WH system happens to scan and see a new signature appear or if the miner happens to D-Scan before the hostile vessel can cloak. Please enlighten me as to how this is risk vs reward?

This is simply huge risk. No Reward. The amount of 200mil + Mining vessels that will be lost hardly makes up for the isk regained from mining. I'm sorry but your logic is severely flawed.