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i only been here 11 monthos so i guess i missed the time that drakes had 8 launcher hard points and allmost 3k more base ehp thanks for pointing out to me that all the BC was so boss before

edited to add that thats all beside the point of what i had to say in the first place is still valid

No, it was the last (so called "perma") Hulkageddon, not your Gallente interdiction.

Facts are YOUR enemy, just check prices of all ices, if you were saying the truth, you'd see only a Gallente ice spike, whereas all four ices spiked.

As I said, facts is a bold word in your mouth.

ahh right that, you see, that too does not help you. I cited the one where I know what it's effect on ice mining itself was (you see, because CCP told us in the devblogs about it). so I know for an absolute fact that jacking ice prices into the 1500s increases ice mining in null

but you, thinking you were secure in the relative lack of specific data during infinite hulkageddon, want to ignore the specific example directly on point.

you've made a critical error, now face the awesome power of this fully operational factstar

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63999/1/Mined_Volume_2.png

as you can see as mining in empire decreased during infinite hulkageddon, mining in 0.0 went significantly up from it's march doldrums. we do not know what percentage of this was ice mining, but given we have the gallente interdiction data it is safe to say your argument has been blown right out of the water

but i mean feel free to wildly flail about concerning facts easily checked i can do this all day

True enough.

Good that you're re-balancing high-end ores, to make them worth more, but why not do a little for mid-end ores as well? Ones like Jaspet, Hedbergite and Hemorphite? Ores typically found in low-sec but also in high-sec gravimetric sites?

Currently their value per m3 is the same as the low-end ores, or only a very few percent (as in single digits) higher.

Of course, if that changes after the expansion, so that we have a clearer value-per-m3 hierarchy, with low-end < mid-end < high-end then that's fine, but if such a hierarchy does not emerge clearly, could you consider giving a slight boost to mid-end ores? Just somehing like +15% mineral content.

One of us is going to be right.


It's not going to be you.

you can't, there is an artificial limit of one per system

Since EvilweaselSA has refused to explain I thought I would go back and make my best attempt. He made a number of points, which were I presumed to counter the argument raised by a number of people that ice will not be mined in null sec to make up the shortfall in High sec and there will be a reduction in supply leading to an increase in price and consequent decrease in demand for ice isotopes, as POS’s in particular are taken off line and the higher prices reduces demand for tech2 items.

He cited some evidence for his assertion; a chart and devblog; which I suggest merely demonstrated that his memory of the existence of these sources was rather better than his ability to interpret the information.
I believe his “two solid points” were:




http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63999/1/Mined_Volume_2.png

He offered this chart above and you can see what could be a rise of up to 0.4m cubic meters from Null between March and May as overall production fell by over 3m cubic meters. You can probably draw your own conclusion about how well this supports his statements. I believe taken across the time series it is hard to conclude other than that there is at best no relationship between null production and price especially as high sec ore prices of all sorts peaked around mid June (you can check this in game) when null sec production was tailing off again.

He also referred to the following devblog, which I would bid you look at. Again, I cannot see that it supports his statements and indeed could quite easily be construed to mean the opposite.

The Devblog http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/3295

The operative paragraph I have reproduced in full:
The average price of Blue Ice rose by 152% from September to November, while the price of Oxygen Isotopes rose by 124% in the same period. The initial effect on traded volume was quite different, as Blue Ice quantity dropped by a whopping 80% from September to October while Oxygen Isotopes only fell by 22%. Although high-sec suppliers of Blue Ice were largely driven out for the time being, Oxygen Isotopes were still being supplied from outside of high security space. However, traded volume of Oxygen Isotopes fell by a further 46% from October to November, probably due to reduced demand as more starbase operators lost patience with the high prices and switched to starbase types that require different fuel.
It is worth noting the article does state that “Oxygen Isotopes where still being supplied from outside of high security space” it makes no statement about production. Given that the Gallente Ice interdiction was planned in advance you would have expected some stock piling of the Isotopes by the perpetrators before and then released later at higher prices. Other contributers have pointed this out. It also goes on to state that demand fell at these prices by a whopping 46%.

Obviously EvilweasaelSA may feel that I have not picked up what he thought were his “solid points”, in which case he is free to reply, but somehow I doubt he will.

the hulkageddon one is less relevant, but we can infer the increase in mining is solidly ice-related as even at hulkageddon prices it was not worth mining lowends in null; hence, the increase would be the one thing that did suddenly become worth mining more (ice).




given the context it is abundantly clear this refers to production

there are (bad) arguments you can make that the evidence offered is not definitive. however, you can make no argument that the evidence offered in support of the "vv hypothesis" (that ice prices of 1500 do not cause increased ice mining in null) is anything as it doesn't exist.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

uh no i'm arguing against the "vv hypothesis" which is that null will not mine ice even when it's 1500 per isotope

prices must rise until null will mine, and it is both right and proper that ice should rise to incentivize null production of it

this will, incidentally, be a subsidy for the better highsec miners who get to mine something close to 0.0 ore if they can beat out their lesser highsec brethren