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It was a rhetorical question Fozzie. I would like a buff to the allign time of all mining barges.

I would just like to ask. The dev blog didn't cover any of the lowsec ores, are there any plans to give them a buff too?

You get Spodumain, Crokite, Dark Ochre and Gneiss in lowsec grav sites atm, so ye lowsec (grav) ores got a buff.
However lowsec belt ores got no love, there is no word of potential spawns of other high ends (AB and, why not, Morph) and all of this combined with the fact that finding miners will be a trivial task means that even folks who used to venture into lowsec mining now and then will be dissuaded from it in future.

I would really like CCP to answer to following questions:
- how in world they think that anyone will mine in lowsec now considering absolutely no area control mechanisms (sov/bubbles), new incentives to roaming (belt rats for tags) and general high activity of residents in terms of pvp combined with trivial scanning mechanism that's being implemented. Except for some very special cases (map geography which makes volume of traffic through certain systems very low) mining in lowsec is gonna become an Russian roulette exercise with very questionable profitability.
- are there plans to change pos array refinement rates any time soon?

Hey guys, I came up with this really awsome idea that should totally fix the ice problems. No need for blubbering and crying and screaming nerf or anything. I promise this will work. Grab your socks here it comes.....


Go and take the ice away from the other miners!


Holycrap mindblowing I know, but trust me, it will work! You can perform the following list of actions to secure your piece of the ice pie: Ganking. Bumping. Wardeccing. Awoxing. Corp theft. Scamming..you get my drift. Attempt to play this *multiplayer* game we call EVE.

I promise, it's really not hard. 8 hours to roll up a suicide gank catalyst. takes 2-3 to take down an all-gank-no-tank barge. There may even be a website dedicated to doing it, along with many people more than willing to share their know-how on proper techniques.

You might even form a group with others who are seeking the same ends...we'll call it a "corporation". This "corporation" could work with other "corporations" to organize optimal time zone coverages and logistics. We'll call it an "alliance". Maybe a few of the "alliances" could get together and work to a common goal...lets call it a "coalition". Now, if this "coalition" is able to corner the highsec ice market, we could call it a "cartel". I think it's been done before in EVE!

Seriously, miners, you've just been handed an opportunity on par with the Tech bottleneck. You know where the anoms will spawn, when they will spawn, and it's a depleting resource an organized group can hold. You might have to fight to pull it off, that's normal EVE gameplay.


Go for it.

OK I think I got it to actually show the post too now.



Right up to this point.. You had a very good post.. However, this is where the prevalent false ego of null sec dwellers comes out. For some strange reason, a lot of Null seccers have this false belief that they are somehow better than those living in HS. If that was the case, then why is it, that even thousand man alliances get locked out of HS when decced with <10 man corps. Why does nullsec leadership loose their **** when a JF (or 4) gets lost to a war target in HS and instead of fighting, they give the direction to stay out? Simple, because the other side is playing on their terms, and when the engagement is not in their favour, they blue ball you. Just like null does to each other all the time. HS players will adapt and overcome any changes thrown their way, just as NullL does. Sure, SOME players in null are better than SOME players in HS. but the same can be said about every aspect of the game. There's just as many idiots and noobs playing in nullsec/HS/LS/WH this ego trip that we're better cause we're in nulll is just plain stupid.

So instead of trying to point out why YOUR space is better than the other guys, why don't we look at the changes and discuss how that AFFECTS the area you live, and what the repercussions of that to the rest of the game are. And leave all this BS crap about I'm better because I live in Null out of this thread.

EDITED:

We should be more concerned with CCPs intent for people to MIGRATE from HS-LS-Null (If that is what their intention is) considering that this game is being advertised as a SAND BOX and as such, the players themselves should be the ones deciding if they want to move, and not game mechanics FORCING you to move.

To which I say you're missing the whole point of the post.

beyond that they are entitled to absolutely nothing

I love almost all of these changes.

The adjusting of the ore compositions is almost identical to the idea I have been pushing for months. I am not arrogant enough to think that it was my idea that was implemented, but at least I can say, great minds think alike.

Changing ICE feilds so that they deplete was definitely a move in the right direction. I don't think they needed to be reduced quite so far, this may cause a major rise in ICE prices which although good for generating competition between miners, could result in the core activities in EVE revolving around POSes to be hurt. Many POS activities are only borderline profitable now, if ICE doubles or triples in price these activities will no longer be profitable.

As far as making ICE fields anomalies rather than static belts, I really don't see any benefit or harm from that change. A short click on the system scanner to get a warp point rather than just clicking on the static belt will really not deter anyone even the botters will have this solved before it even goes live. It is not hard to code the bot program to scan for the belt before warping to it. I would not be surprised if there are already null sec mining bot programs out there that already have this function. Not that I in anyway support botting, but making game mechanics to fight botters that end up affecting actual players more than the bots just seems a waste of time to me.

My only major concern is moving hidden belts/grav sites to anomalies. What were you thinking?? What made these hidden belts safe enough to mine in was the fact that the gankers had to scan you down before they could attack you. This required a probe launcher. Most null sec roamers do not equip a probe launcher. So you were safe from most null sec roamers. But with this change any ship can use on board scanners to find these hidden belts, i.e. They do not need any extra equipment to find you. Any ship in system, even a noob frigate, can find the belt in a couple seconds.

These belts are now not any safer that the static belts are. Not only can anyone looking for a kill jump you without any extra equipment needed to find you, they can do it without warning. The old mechanics not only reduced the number of threats to those with probe launchers, but if you watched D-scan you would see the probes alerting you to incoming threats in time to warp out giving you a chance even against those with a probe launcher. With these new mechanics not only will anyone be able to find you without need of a probe launcher, but you will not know they are coming until you see the ship on d-scan. Mining ships do not warp fast enough to get away once the ship appears on d-scan. For a cloaky ship D-scan will be useless. This is a massive nerf to hidden belts.

The ore composition changes were a great buff to hidden belts, and null sec mining in general, but this change making hidden belts anomalies that can be found with the on board scanner not only cancel out that buff, but leaves null sec mining in a far worse place than before. Not only will this not help null sec industry, but it will break what little utility it already had.

In the CSM minute you say you want to bring more activity to null sec. most of these changes will help do that. But this scanning change nullifies all that work. Miners are already at significant risk of being ganked, especially in null sec where asteroid belts are little more than a shooting range for ratters. Making hidden belts so easy to find drastically increases the risk to characters mining in those belts. Regardless of how much more isk per hour a miner can make, if the risk is to high they will not bother. Who mines in low sec? Nobody, because it is to risky, Even when the low sec ores Hedbergite and Hemorphite were the most valuable ores, still nobody went to low sec to mine them, why? because the risk was to high.

The balance is very tight for miners. It is not just a risk vs reward. It is an issue where if the risk of getting ganked is to high the activity will not be done, regardless of how rewarding it may be. being able to make even double the isk/hr in null sec that you make in high sec is not worth the risk if null sec mining is so risky you can expect to spend half your time hiding in a POS or Station.

The risk factor of null sec mining was about where it should be with the hidden belts needing to be scanned down, and the miners needing to be scanned down before they can be ganked. Mining in null sec is a high risk activity,even deep inside alliance controlled space. You are defenseless against other players. No other player is going to sit in a system doing nothing just in case somebody shows up to gank your mining fleet. It just will not happen. Nobody in null sec cares about miners, and PVP pilots want to PVP not babysit miners.The only protection they have is being hard to find, and this change will remove that protection. You expect the alliances to step up and protect their miners. That will not happen. it will just be one more reason for null sec alliances to not want miners in there systems. PVP players have zero respect for carebears or nullbears, they will not spend the game time they paid for protecting them. Forcing them to do so will hurt player retention. Leave the hidden belts hidden. If they are not a PITA to find, they are not safe enough to mine in. Even in high sec miners get ganked regularly. The ganker lose their ships, yet they still gank miners. In null sec the risk nothing, so they lose nothing from the gank. Making miners as easy to find as if they were in the static belts will deter many potential null sec miners for even trying it. If you make them easy to find the miners in them will be easy to gank. An easy to gank miner in null sec will not make enough isk to keep mining.

OK , Now I am really confused.

This change will require null sec alliances to actively protect their miners. I assume this is the team work you refer to.

The problem is most null sec alliances do not give a dam about nullbear miners. Many do not even allow null bears in there alliance. At best they allow industrial alliances to rent space from them, but they certainly do not protect them. Only PVP pilots that occasionally do industry are allowed in most PVP alliances, and they get zero support for their industrial nullbear activities. This will not change.

There is not a PVPer in this game that will spend the game time they paid for, sitting in a system doing nothing, just in case a gank fleet shows up to kill some nullbear miners. They could not care less what happens to those nullbears. If PVPers wanted game play that boring they would be mining themselves. PVPers do not have any respect for miners, and will not spend there time protecting them, unless they are guaranteed a good fight, which generally means not showing up until after the miners are attacked and are basically dead already.

This emergent game play of Alliance PVP players protecting their nullbear industrial players, game play that would be required for this game change to work, does not exist, and it never will. This is an example of trying to force players to change how they play. Players who play EVE for the combat or PVP will not spend their time doing an activity they do not enjoy. It is not enjoyable for a bunch of PVPers to sit in a system as a support fleet for a bunch of useless miners. This is how the majority of PVPers think. That will not change. This emergent game play of PVPers and miners working as a team to accomplish nullbear activities just will not happen. What you will end up with is a group of miners that can not do their thing without support from the PVPers. And a group of PVPers that will not want to give up there normal activities to go support a mining op.

The PVPers do not need the miners, at least not from the PVPers perspective. But the Miners will need the PVPers for this to work. If this results in a shortage of null sec minerals, and no ships for the PVPers to buy, then it will only hurt the game as a whole. Most PVPers will not go help the miners to prevent this, they will just look for another game where they can PVP without being forced to stop PVPing to spend there time helping the carebears they have come to hate so much. Just as you can not force a high sec carebear into null sec, you can not force a null sec PVPer to participate in Carebear activities. Most PVPers hate Carebears, this is a fact of MMO gaming, and will never change.

If this change goes live it will break what little null sec industry we have, not make it better. All the other changes are great, but this one seeming little thing could do more damage that any other new feature has done in a long long time.

You are assuming that running sites in a WH is guaranteed income. Unlike the null sec sites WH sites do not respawn. In fact you can have days with no more than 1-2 combat sites to run. Which will not translate to your 500m/h unless you only count the time you ran the site. Signatures are the same as everywhere else a crap shoot so I did leave those out. But anoms are very random and are not a steady income. What bigger corps do is raid the neighboring whs which is open to anyone to do so you can't really count that into the reward risk ratio either.