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Dev Blog: Resource Shakeup in Odyssey: Just don’t call it a Cataclysm + Companion blog

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#541 - 2013-04-30 17:27:04 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Meltmind2 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
[quote=CCP Fozzie]
Scanning? Sure, actually make it harder if anything.
Waiting for 3.5 hours for a new spawn like an idiot? NO WAY.

Or you could *gasp* move over to another system and/or mine rocks instead.


Spoken like a true ignorant.

Let me speak it slowly for you: moving 30-ish freighters worth of ice is not a small task even if I currently have 2 freigthers and 1 JF so I am in a better situation than most..

Continuosly relocating requires standings with the appropriate stations for perfect refine and grinding standings is not an overnight task either.

Also, I have multiple rocks mining fleets and 4 Orca boosting characters, *maybe* I also mine rocks? Who knows Roll

out of pure curiosity where do you mine


Feel free to find out.

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Crexa
Ion Industrials
#542 - 2013-04-30 17:27:45 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Meltmind2 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Scanning? Sure, actually make it harder if anything.
Waiting for 3.5 hours for a new spawn like an idiot? NO WAY.

Or you could *gasp* move over to another system and/or mine rocks instead.

Or stop mining all together and do something that will be still profitable in hi-sec, like missions or incursions.

That would involve adapting which is evidently an unthinkable concept, it's only other people who should Adapt Or Die when changes are made.

Much better to sulk and cry on the forums about it instead.



Adapt. I've always loved that word. Lets all say it... Adapt. Unfortunately, in these forums the word Adapt, is being used as a euphemism for SHUT UP.

"F=ma, so obviously they're putting mouths against arses to produce a force." "...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?"
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#543 - 2013-04-30 17:29:43 UTC
Meltmind2 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Meltmind2 wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
[quote=CCP Fozzie]
Scanning? Sure, actually make it harder if anything.
Waiting for 3.5 hours for a new spawn like an idiot? NO WAY.

Or you could *gasp* move over to another system and/or mine rocks instead.


Spoken like a true ignorant.

Let me speak it slowly for you: moving 30-ish freighters worth of ice is not a small task even if I currently have 2 freigthers and 1 JF so I am in a better situation than most..

Continuosly relocating requires standings with the appropriate stations for perfect refine and grinding standings is not an overnight task either.

Also, I have multiple rocks mining fleets and 4 Orca boosting characters, *maybe* I also mine rocks? Who knows Roll

The 4h respawn time means you have plenty of time to relocate, haul stuff around or do ~other things~.


I have 1 hour, I will spend it doing something more fun than space trucking. The *only* good thing about current mining is that it can be done while doing the more fun activities, since they left it as lackluster and boring but just added limitations then it's not worth doing.

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#544 - 2013-04-30 17:30:45 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
So Fozzie.
Have you and CCP Rise completely stopped taking feedback on the ship and module balance changes?
Are you just going to release things as they are currently presented?
We're just over a month from release and the last time you or he posted in any of the Amarr T1 BS or the LET threads was just a handful of posts by Rise completely discarding most of the feedback in the thread from the past 90 pages before his post. And those handful of posts were over a week after anything previously.

What's the point of making such threads then? You haven't really given us much indication that you're doing anything about them, that you're reading them anymore, or even that you care.


We've been very busy with fanfest and myself with getting these devblogs out the door. We're definitely not done taking feedback on those balance changes.

Well that's comforting. At what point before an expansion would you say changes are locked in? A week before? Two weeks?


A few days for changes that don't require localization. Obviously the earlier the better though.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#545 - 2013-04-30 17:30:48 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Feel free to find out.

That's what I'm doing! Who better to ask?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#546 - 2013-04-30 17:32:16 UTC
Crexa wrote:

Adapt. I've always loved that word. Lets all say it... Adapt. Unfortunately, in these forums the word Adapt, is being used as a euphemism for SHUT UP.


It's fun to tell the employer he has to adapt so that the player can adapt to the new EvE schedule.

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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#547 - 2013-04-30 17:37:01 UTC
I can honestly say that the increased value of low sec ores would have been enough to mine in gravimetric sites, but with them going to anomalies it is still not worth risking you mining barge for.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Crexa
Ion Industrials
#548 - 2013-04-30 17:45:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Crexa
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I can honestly say that the increased value of low sec ores would have been enough to mine in gravimetric sites, but with them going to anomalies it is still not worth risking you mining barge for.



Look, its really simple. Low sec will never ever be worth mining UNTIL, they place something there that is so valuable that the risk <= reward.

Low sec could benefit from a different form of mining. Perhaps booster gases. You know, a half @ss implemented idea that never got any love after it was introduced into the game. An expansion of an idea that at its core is really good but gets no use because of scarcity, lack of knowledge and ignorance.

"F=ma, so obviously they're putting mouths against arses to produce a force." "...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?"
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#549 - 2013-04-30 17:45:55 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Crexa wrote:

Adapt. I've always loved that word. Lets all say it... Adapt. Unfortunately, in these forums the word Adapt, is being used as a euphemism for SHUT UP.


It's fun to tell the employer he has to adapt so that the player can adapt to the new EvE schedule.


agreed, i demand all moneymaking options in game be balanced around my unique schedule rather than various options being better for various schedules

accordingly, i demand a complete rebalance of ratting to accommodate my logging in for 5-10 minutes per day to look at the market
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#550 - 2013-04-30 17:47:39 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I can honestly say that the increased value of low sec ores would have been enough to mine in gravimetric sites, but with them going to anomalies it is still not worth risking you mining barge for.

This. CCP consider two site types: Ore anomalies for ore that normally appears in that type of space. Example: An Omber site popping up in high sec, a Hedergite site in low sec, or small ore sites in W. Ore signature for higher end ores: Example: a Hedergite site in high sec, or Arkonor in low sec, or in W the larger ore sites.

Ships will not be exploding at ore anomalies if no one goes there to mine. The current proposal will lead to ore mining in high sec, secured Null, and little else.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Crexa
Ion Industrials
#551 - 2013-04-30 17:49:31 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Crexa wrote:

Adapt. I've always loved that word. Lets all say it... Adapt. Unfortunately, in these forums the word Adapt, is being used as a euphemism for SHUT UP.


It's fun to tell the employer he has to adapt so that the player can adapt to the new EvE schedule.


agreed, i demand all moneymaking options in game be balanced around my unique schedule rather than various options being better for various schedules

accordingly, i demand a complete rebalance of ratting to accommodate my logging in for 5-10 minutes per day to look at the market


Or how about around your agenda. That always seemed a good one.

"F=ma, so obviously they're putting mouths against arses to produce a force." "...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?"
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#552 - 2013-04-30 17:54:05 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Kadl wrote:
Welcome back Fozzie.

There are a number of people asking that you keep the grav sites as signatures (probable), as opposed to converting them to anomalies. I would like to give you two more reasons to avoid making the conversion. First the work to do this can be avoided, leaving happier players. Second, changing this now and then discovering the problems will only cause more difficulties in the future. Of course, the numerous reasons already listed are also important such as the problems that this causes for wormhole miners, a miner considering low sec, and some null sec miners.

I would also like to see the new ice sites as signatures, but keeping the grav sites is more important.


We're quite happy in general with the increased risk associated with the increased reward. Ore sites in lowsec, 0.0 and wormholes (especially lowsec) are getting a whole lot more valuable.

Huh? The Dev blog only mentioned the 0.0 ore: the ABC ores, Gneiss, Spod and Dark Ochre. Nothing was mentioned about the J-H ores that show in low sec.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#553 - 2013-04-30 18:02:22 UTC
I look forward to doing missions in a kronos again because everything else is prohibitively expensive for my actual amount of game play time.

Its nice to know that the things which are long time known problems are getting fixed yeah?

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Kadl
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#554 - 2013-04-30 18:05:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kadl
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Kadl wrote:
Welcome back Fozzie.

There are a number of people asking that you keep the grav sites as signatures (probable)...


We're quite happy in general with the increased risk associated with the increased reward. Ore sites in lowsec, 0.0 and wormholes (especially lowsec) are getting a whole lot more valuable.

Huh? The Dev blog only mentioned the 0.0 ore: the ABC ores, Gneiss, Spod and Dark Ochre. Nothing was mentioned about the J-H ores that show in low sec.


Low sec grav sites have Null Sec ores. I would be happy with grav sites with low sec ores found in low sec.

Crexa wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I can honestly say that the increased value of low sec ores would have been enough to mine in gravimetric sites, but with them going to anomalies it is still not worth risking you mining barge for.



Look, its really simple. Low sec will never ever be worth mining UNTIL, they place something there that is so valuable that the risk <= reward.

Low sec could benefit from a different form of mining. Perhaps booster gases. You know, a half @ss implemented idea that never got any love after it was introduced into the game. An expansion of an idea that at its core is really good but gets no use because of scarcity, lack of knowledge and ignorance.


Low sec has extra issues with security that are not found in Null Sec. It seems that CCP generally thinks of risk as High -> Low -> Null, which makes it difficult to balance risks and rewards for common activities within Low Sec.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#555 - 2013-04-30 18:10:05 UTC
Kadl wrote:

Low sec has extra issues with security that are not found in Null Sec. It seems that CCP generally thinks of risk as High -> Low -> Null, which makes it difficult to balance risks and rewards for common activities within Low Sec.

It has risks that are not present in sovereign nullsec but most of those are present in NPC null. Really, the only one is you can't anchor defensive bubbles.
Crexa
Ion Industrials
#556 - 2013-04-30 18:12:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Crexa
^^

Which is the fundamental problem. In reality lowsec is more dangerous than null or even wh under certain circumstances. The only exception to this would be the use of bubbles true. But I look at it from an economic danger not purely a ship loss danger. Economically, the risks do not equal the rewards thus it is more dangerous.

PS. This is particularly true for the 0.4 systems where moon mining does not exist. These systems suffer/share all the burdens and fewer rewards.

"F=ma, so obviously they're putting mouths against arses to produce a force." "...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?"
Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad
Against ALL Authorities
#557 - 2013-04-30 18:14:38 UTC
BTW, i heard you want to change battleships mineral requirements. Any actual numbers? Or at least what direction it will go (up? down? ) ?
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#558 - 2013-04-30 18:14:47 UTC
Crexa wrote:
^^

Which is the fundamental problem. In reality lowsec is more dangerous than null or even wh under certain circumstances. The only exception to this would be the use of bubbles true. But I look at it from an economic danger not purely a ship loss danger. Economically, the risks do not equal the rewards thus it is more dangerous.

you don't have the risk thousands of people will descend on your stations, take them, and lock you out of them and leave you unable to do anything in your space
Kadl
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#559 - 2013-04-30 18:15:45 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Kadl wrote:

Low sec has extra issues with security that are not found in Null Sec. It seems that CCP generally thinks of risk as High -> Low -> Null, which makes it difficult to balance risks and rewards for common activities within Low Sec.

It has risks that are not present in sovereign nullsec but most of those are present in NPC null. Really, the only one is you can't anchor defensive bubbles.


And wormhole space is different in other ways as well. The point remains that with respect to low sec it seems like CCP views risk as High -> Low -> Null. Perhaps we can agree that the the risks do not progress in that manner, but rather differ in each individual region.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#560 - 2013-04-30 18:21:20 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Crexa wrote:
^^

Which is the fundamental problem. In reality lowsec is more dangerous than null or even wh under certain circumstances. The only exception to this would be the use of bubbles true. But I look at it from an economic danger not purely a ship loss danger. Economically, the risks do not equal the rewards thus it is more dangerous.

you don't have the risk thousands of people will descend on your stations, take them, and lock you out of them and leave you unable to do anything in your space

That is a risk you accepted when you took sov.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.