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Dev Blog: Resource Shakeup in Odyssey: Just don’t call it a Cataclysm + Companion blog

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Octoven
Stellar Production
#341 - 2013-04-27 19:36:19 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Quote:
A. Solo play should always be rewarded, it is a slowly disapperaing aspect of this game and im glad it is being supported a bit more now. Players who use macks are still going to solo no matter where they go...respawn rates are irrelevant to that fact. Another thing to think of is that most miners who solo play will have 3-4 accounts that they engage in mining with. So in a technical term its not eexactly solo play...from a social stand point it is but not from a 3rd person point of view.


nope, it should be possible, but this is a MULTIPLAYER game, teaming up should be rewarded

Quote:
B. I fail to see how this rewards semi-afk play. Yes, ice harvesters are being penalized with longer cycle times; however, having lowers amounts of ice depleting over more areas is much better. We all know that depleting an ice roid the way they are set now is a *****. Even with a good sized fleet it would take you all day to do just one roid. Having them pop every hour or so helps.


semi-afk play should not be rewarded



It is a multi-player game; however, it is also a sandbox and yes while people should be able to interact with other players, there should not be a restriction of allowing others to do solo stuff. In truth it should be pretty balanced on both sides. More and more changes have been geared toward only fleet ops and multi-player opportunities and while these are nice to have, we must not stomp out the new content and ability for players to take a break now and again and just do something on their own without someone barking orders.
Althanaslas Imhari
Have Guns Will Travel
#342 - 2013-04-27 20:14:45 UTC
I'm not a miner myself, but something that I haven't really seen taken into account yet is that ORE ships use oxygen isotopes as well, along with one of the more popular JFs (Anshar). Now that ice (likely blue ice especially) is becoming scarce, will there be more efforts to discourage the use of bots/macros?

Just from a game mechanic standpoint, seems like you're setting up a perfect situation for that sort of thing to run rampant and basically dominate the market.
Lunaleil Fournier
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#343 - 2013-04-27 20:34:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunaleil Fournier
Really happy with most of this, but you're missing a huge opportunity with anomalies.

Nullsec Anomalies should be re-done into 3 different sites: one for 2 month old noobs in t1 BS's (dens), one for vets in marauders (hubs), and one for groups of people (sanctums). Each one increases the isk per hour per pilot which means groups would make the highest isk per hour per person. It would be much more scalable and allow more people per system. It also would give noobs a viable income in 00 that the current low level anoms don't provide - if you balance the payout to be worthwhile.

Also - a lot of current anoms are just a pain to run because of the rediculous numbers of frigs and cruisers. Balancing that to be less tedious but still difficult by removing numbers but buffing the rats that remain would be greatly appreciated.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#344 - 2013-04-27 20:58:49 UTC
I never said solo play or semi afk playshould be impossible, I said that grouping up and being active should pay off

Right now, it often does not. That's really bad game design.

Making (highsec) ice a scarse Ressource is a step in the right direction, organised gameplay will be rewarding, competition is (for the first time in ice history) a possibility, competition is where stories are told. High-Sec needs those.
Conjaq
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#345 - 2013-04-27 20:59:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Conjaq
Quote:
From the dev blog; Most systems that currently have ice belts will contain these new ice anomalies, with the notable exception of many systems in Amarrian, Khanid, and Ammatar high security space. Below I will list all the systems in high security space that will contain spawns of Clear Icicle.

....List of systems

These will be the only high security systems that will contain Clear Icicle. All low-security and null-security systems that currently contain static ice belts, as well as all high security systems in Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar space that contain static ice belts, will contain the new ice anomalies.



How come the amarr ice belts are not changed, like the rest of all the the factions?
It seems wierd only amarr keep their static ice belts,
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#346 - 2013-04-27 21:22:18 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
a miner is prey and its only defense, like prey, should be fleeing to safety when the predators arrive

Ya know, if this is really true, then all mining ships should have a built-in +4 WCS, as well as a much higher agility for faster warp outs and to help avoid bumping....
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#347 - 2013-04-27 21:29:18 UTC
Althanaslas Imhari wrote:
I'm not a miner myself, but something that I haven't really seen taken into account yet is that ORE ships use oxygen isotopes as well, along with one of the more popular JFs (Anshar).

The only mining ship which uses oxytopes is the Rorqual. The mining barges, exhumers, the Venture, and the Orca do not use oxytopes.
Althanaslas Imhari
Have Guns Will Travel
#348 - 2013-04-27 21:38:30 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Althanaslas Imhari wrote:
I'm not a miner myself, but something that I haven't really seen taken into account yet is that ORE ships use oxygen isotopes as well, along with one of the more popular JFs (Anshar).

The only mining ship which uses oxytopes is the Rorqual. The mining barges, exhumers, the Venture, and the Orca do not use oxytopes.


Sorry, I suppose I should have specified that in my original post (ship, as opposed to ships). My point was that there are more ships out there using the isotopes refined from Blue Ice than any of the other ice products, leading to an already inflated market for Blue Ice and Oxygen Isotopes.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#349 - 2013-04-27 21:42:37 UTC
So, more competition for the blue ice?

How terrible

Not.
Althanaslas Imhari
Have Guns Will Travel
#350 - 2013-04-27 21:58:41 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
So, more competition for the blue ice?

How terrible

Not.


Perhaps a market dominated by bots and isk farmers is okay by you, but for those of us with towers and ships to fuel, it is a valid concern. Also, should you have bothered to read, the original post was about the possibility of the afforementioned demographic having an unfair advantage over players. Then again, I should know better than to feed the trolls. Have yourself a fine day my good sir.
frightning
Griffin Capsuleers
Ad-Astra
#351 - 2013-04-27 22:28:44 UTC  |  Edited by: frightning
As mentioned a few times re: Wormholes, you could go further than initial blog by:
  • Ensuring that Grav sites are not anoms & warpable due to a "Subspace Communications error". This will offset not having local to check who's in system.
    • [*] Introducing Ice of random varieties as an alternative source of supply. This will generate isk for WH folks plus keep easy prey on the field for gankers.
    James Amril-Kesh
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #352 - 2013-04-27 22:47:54 UTC
    Althanaslas Imhari wrote:
    I'm not a miner myself, but something that I haven't really seen taken into account yet is that ORE ships use oxygen isotopes as well, along with one of the more popular JFs (Anshar).

    I guess it's good then that I invested in oxygen isotopes over the other types. It was a pretty random decision which one I'd go for.

    Enjoying the rain today? ;)
    Sissy Fuzz
    Sissy Fuzz Communications
    #353 - 2013-04-27 23:12:50 UTC
    Octoven wrote:
    Sissy Fuzz wrote:
    10 years of dumbing down EVE! And still going strong!

    "We will also be making a significant change to the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players. We are phasing out the Gravimetric signature category, and instead pilots will be able to find all Ore Sites using their ship’s built-in anomaly scanning equipment. This change will make finding hidden belts much less difficult for both miners and for those who would prey on them, so pilots are always advised to practice vigilance."

    Love this one: Changing the way hidden asteroid belts will be found by players.

    I'd say - they won't be hidden anymore, will they. Way to take away one small thing that is actually fun i high sec.
    Why not add an AutoMine and AutoGank function too? Or even better: Also add a NavigateToAndMine and NavigateToAndGank option to the autopilot!! Then you won't even have to be in the actual system when you get the urge to mine or gank something.

    Then it will be really noob friendly for all types of players.

    /SF


    I sense someone is pissed that they cant mine hidden from gankers anymore...This isnt dumbing eve down its making it less work and more play. Im a miner and I support these changes.


    Well, you're sensing wrong.

    I am not any more hidden from gankers than the field I am mining was for me, before I scanned it down. It is less work but not more play. On the contrary, I think a lot of people find a lot of "play" in the process of scanning down both mining fields and miners, as per preference.

    Risk v reward... or effort v reward, right? The current system demands effort from both miner and ganker to be rewarded in a - from both perspectives - low risk environment. The proposed change is - exactly - dumbing down EVE by removing the effort of employing something that takes skill and time to achieve a goal.

    I am not a miner and I don't.

    /SF
    Gilbaron
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #354 - 2013-04-27 23:14:35 UTC
    Althanaslas Imhari wrote:
    Gilbaron wrote:
    So, more competition for the blue ice?

    How terrible

    Not.


    Perhaps a market dominated by bots and isk farmers is okay by you, but for those of us with towers and ships to fuel, it is a valid concern. Also, should you have bothered to read, the original post was about the possibility of the afforementioned demographic having an unfair advantage over players. Then again, I should know better than to feed the trolls. Have yourself a fine day my good sir.



    do you realise that a limited and interesting ressource makes being a bot much harder than it currently is ? i for one see competition for the ice belts, i see wardecs, i see bumping, i see hatred, i see all the good stuff. (and i worry if having 80% of all required ice in highsec is enough to promote enough conflict, i would aim for less as a game designer, but i understand a cautious approach, especially since making fuelblocks in 00 makes sense will all the incoming changes, and icemining in 00 opens up so much more possibilities for interesting gameplay than icemining in highsec ever could)


    and don't forget the gigantic stockpiles that currently exist, its not like oxygen isotopes will dissapear from all hangars tomorrow (would be pretty funny though)
    Jenn aSide
    Soul Machines
    The Initiative.
    #355 - 2013-04-27 23:16:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
    Lunaleil Fournier wrote:
    Really happy with most of this, but you're missing a huge opportunity with anomalies.

    Nullsec Anomalies should be re-done into 3 different sites: one for 2 month old noobs in t1 BS's (dens), one for vets in marauders (hubs), and one for groups of people (sanctums). Each one increases the isk per hour per pilot which means groups would make the highest isk per hour per person. It would be much more scalable and allow more people per system. It also would give noobs a viable income in 00 that the current low level anoms don't provide - if you balance the payout to be worthwhile.

    Also - a lot of current anoms are just a pain to run because of the rediculous numbers of frigs and cruisers. Balancing that to be less tedious but still difficult by removing numbers but buffing the rats that remain would be greatly appreciated.



    Amen to this.

    The current state of Anoms isn't all that great. The way bounteis are paid out in EVE (outside of incursions) makes anoms very "anti-cooperation". It's the exact same in missions and complexes but people don't realy notice it because plexes are about loot and missions don't just pay bounties, but also LP. If you have a high dps ship and you invite a buddy along that does't do as much dps, that buddy STILL gets exactly half of all the bounties. Great for him, crappy for you lol.

    A better way might be to apportion bounties according to damage done (do 65% of the damge, get 65% of the bounty total), but I could see downsides to that as well.

    Back to what you are talking about, it would be VERY nice to see anoms structured as you say. As it is now, there is no reason for anyone (noob or otherwise) to do an anom lower than a hub and there are reasons why people don't share the good high end anoms very much , leading to this situation we have here were upgraded systems can't accomodate very many ratters.

    More ratters means more isk yea, but also more targets/more ships going boom. With a lot of people in local, some ratter usually misses the neut/red coming in and gets killed. The current anoms encourge small ratting system populations making local that much better an intel tool, ie the current situation is pretty anti-pvp.
    Dring Dingle
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #356 - 2013-04-28 01:25:42 UTC
    Did I miss the part about pos upgrades? Also why not 100% refining at poses!!!
    GeeShizzle MacCloud
    #357 - 2013-04-28 02:11:37 UTC
    ThuliHaf...... err go with Thulium Hafnite?

    and ProMerc, u were so close to an easy name - Promercurite

    the Composites tend to have 'ium' endings to names so promercurium wouldnt fit too well.
    Soko99
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #358 - 2013-04-28 02:43:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Soko99
    Considering how easy it will be to find mining ships in WHs after the changes to Grav sites being anomalies found on Dscan, is thijs a stealth nerf in order to reduce the desirability of WH living? Or what reasoning does CCP have in making it so that mining in WHs is now a game of russian roulette.


    Even if multiple anoms spawn instead of a single Grav site. With the new tracking camera, it is still easy as hell to locate a ship that's on any of the selectable locations such as anoms, pocos, planets etc. With the ability to select your anom in space instead of using the old align to method, you're indirectly speeding up the ability of an aggressor to locate a ship.
    GeeShizzle MacCloud
    #359 - 2013-04-28 03:09:44 UTC
    Soko99 wrote:
    Considering how easy it will be to find mining ships in WHs after the changes to Grav sites being anomalies found on Dscan, is thijs a stealth nerf in order to reduce the desirability of WH living? Or what reasoning does CCP have in making it so that mining in WHs is now a game of russian roulette.


    Even if multiple anoms spawn instead of a single Grav site. With the new tracking camera, it is still easy as hell to locate a ship that's on any of the selectable locations such as anoms, pocos, planets etc. With the ability to select your anom in space instead of using the old align to method, you're indirectly speeding up the ability of an aggressor to locate a ship.


    i think that was the plan all along, one of the main selling points for aggressors when referring to the 'no local' thing was to catch people relatively unawares after jumping in and scanning. i believe this change is to better get the higher speed of the process to more people to show the current system isnt that bad.

    plus the mining in WH's thing i think has been nerfed due to their ability to easy (albeit awkwardly) get minerals to highsec markets.

    i remember that being one of the bug bears of CSM7 that had never been resolved.
    Gilbaron
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #360 - 2013-04-28 03:30:21 UTC
    WHs are still relatively safe

    you probescan the whole system and place an alt at every wormhole (a halfway decent WH corp has enough alts that can't mine) doing so allows you to actually hear anyone coming into the system via one of these WHs

    another alt is constantly probing the system for new signatures, as soon as one appears you know that you might have a problem and can get the mining fleet safe