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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Minmatar

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2013-04-08 18:47:20 UTC
I am REALLY disapointed. Tempest SLOWER than megatron? WTF ?


Where are the minmatar role gone into?


Its a matter of CONCEPT!! That is SO WRONG that is #!@*!@#*!@#*!@#!#. Sorry but it is!



Also on overal the battleships are still ALL of them TOO WEAK FOR THEIR COST!


"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Sylvous
Bigger than Jesus
#82 - 2013-04-08 18:48:28 UTC
Alice Saki wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Our redesign here aims to honor the spirit of the typhoon


You Failed.


Pretty much.

What makes the phoon great is utility. Now it only has 1 utility high. Keep the 8 high slots it's what made the phoon the phoon.
Alek Row
Silent Step
#83 - 2013-04-08 18:50:18 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
I am REALLY disapointed. Tempest SLOWER than megatron? WTF ?
Where are the minmatar role gone into?
Its a matter of CONCEPT!! That is SO WRONG that is #!@*!@#*!@#*!@#!#. Sorry but it is!
Also on overal the battleships are still ALL of them TOO WEAK FOR THEIR COST!


And now check the mass of Tempest and the Typhoon (WTF???) and compare it with the Mega...
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#84 - 2013-04-08 18:51:57 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Also on overal the battleships are still ALL of them TOO WEAK FOR THEIR COST!


I definitely agree on them conceptually shitting on Minmatar, but cost is player controlled via the market.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2013-04-08 18:53:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Liang Nuren wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:

Also on overal the battleships are still ALL of them TOO WEAK FOR THEIR COST!


I definitely agree on them conceptually shitting on Minmatar, but cost is player controlled via the market.

-Liang



I mean comapred to BC. Simply comapre the ammount of minerals as a cost if you want. They are still too weak. Note that i said COST, not PRICE. The price is set by players, the COST is set by CCP.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#86 - 2013-04-08 18:54:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Deerin
OK....my initial sentimantality is gone.

Mael:

Nothing changed here. It is a fine PvE ship and has a good alpha fleet doctrine going for it. Also it is a beast with XLASB. It is performing its roles very well. Can you please add it a 25m^3 drone bay to actually utilize its 100mbit bandwidth

Pest:

Although it is changed to combat role and its EHP incresed the increase to sig radius is harsh. Then again it is still smallest sig Combat Battleship so I hope it will still be ok. Can you please add it a 25m^3 drone bay to actually utilize its 75mbit bandwidth

Phoon:

I've to admit old phoon is gone and this is a new ship. I shouldn't be looking at the old swiss army knife lovely phoon.

As a new ship I think it is good. 6 launchers + exp radius bonus + enough meds to supply it with tp+webs and decent 7 slow tank on lows.....and it is fastest battleship.......It can have its own fleet doctrine!!!! Can you please add it a 25m^3 drone bay to actually utilize its 100mbit bandwidth

One thing to note though. It's role will coincide with Maelstorm on PvE front. It will provide decent PvE platform and will compete with mael.

Still I'll miss the old phoon. I hope its characteristics can be retained in the fleet version.

One more note:

Dear CCP balancing team. This is the hardest part of tiercide and I'm not really envying your job atm. Battleships are THE ships that are defining the map of EVE. There will be a huge resistance to change. You'll be on the crosshairs of the whole community. A lot of comments will be fueled by rage.

Don't be discouraged.

I, as a member of EVE playerbase, fully trust you guys to come up with a very decent balance. You have delivered us a good game since 10 years. No reason to doubt your prowess.
ElectronHerd Askulf
Aridia Logistical Misdirection
#87 - 2013-04-08 18:54:36 UTC
As a relatively new player, I've come to love the typhoon for its cheap, flexible ugliness, so I'm divided on the typhoon changes.

I like the new concentration on missiles, but the drone nerfs are pretty harsh. Can we have either enough bandwidth for a full flight of heavys/sentries OR some of the spare drone bay back? Actually, the latter would probably do more for retaining the utility without being OP - the ability to carry a 'full' flight of damage drones plus repair or ewar really gives a lot of flexibility.

Trading utility highs for more damage better applied makes sense, even if I'll miss my ability to fit dual remote reps for sigs. My PvE typhoons I have 3 or 4 fits to swap in depending on exactly what I'm doing. Some of those will still work, but the remote rep variants really won't. So it goes.
Karimson Safehold
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2013-04-08 18:58:12 UTC
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 8000 / 7500 / 700

Looks like something fell off the Maelstrom there. When will the rust stop falling off? There's almost no structure left
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#89 - 2013-04-08 19:09:25 UTC
Karimson Safehold wrote:
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 8000 / 7500 / 700

Looks like something fell off the Maelstrom there. When will the rust stop falling off? There's almost no structure left


Yeah, it was the bottom two wingie bits. Sorry. :(

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2013-04-08 19:09:48 UTC
RISe, PLEASE read this.


Tempest MAIN ROLE was always to bring 2 heavy neuts. Now this role is of the armageddon, forever....

You nee dto change WAY MORE in the tempest on this new meta to make it useful!


please think of it! Its role cannot be the 2 heavy neut bringer. remove 1 high and add a mid or low if needed. If you want to make it a COMBAT SHIP you need to give it more in terms of low or mid slots.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2013-04-08 19:35:57 UTC
With caldari and amarr getting ewar battleships I think it would be neat if each race got a battleship that got something unique. Because the typhoon was suppose to be a flexible ship to begin with, I think you should add some discordant bonuses onto the hull. Imagine if this was the ship:

(per level bonuses)
5% bonus to turret RoF
5% bonus to missile RoF
50% bonus to shield transporter range
50% bonus to remote armor repair range
10% bonus to target painter optimal range

With a 7/5/7 layout (5 tur/5mis) you would have an incredibly flexible ship. Another layout that could also work is a 6/6/7 (5/5) layout. The additional bonuses are designed in such as way that you really can't take advantage of them all at the same time, but the fact that the ship becomes incredibly flexible would balance it out. It would also create a completely new role in the game, in this particular example a heavy logistics, that wouldn't displace the current logi ships.

Not saying that these are the bonuses you should run with, but I think getting past the 2 bonus per ship idea would make the typhoon really unique, especially if the bonuses are discordant. The lack of 8 highs will swerve the ship away from some of the current fittings, but I think the added flexibility would be something that would make this ugly as hell hull (<3) amaxing.
monkfish2345
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#92 - 2013-04-08 19:38:17 UTC
Please can we keep the fleet phoon with it's split damages.

there are alot of people that love the ship as it is and to see it turned it a fast raven is a bit sad.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#93 - 2013-04-08 19:43:26 UTC
^^I hope CCP get mass amnesia and they skip minatar faction ships or we are gonna fly tempest looking drakes in short future.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#94 - 2013-04-08 19:44:06 UTC
It feels as if the Typhoon has been neutered. Whatever balls that ship had have been firmly snipped. Yes it took a lot of skills to use it well but it offered so much versatility that it was worth the effort. Now it feels like a Raven, and that's wrong on every level both for the Typhoon and the Raven.

The Minmatar have lost their most versatile ship.

The Caldari have come second place in their speciality weapons system.

How does this make sense?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2013-04-08 19:46:47 UTC
Please consider the following dear CCPers. Increase ALL BATTLESHIPS hp by ANOTHER 15% and add ANOTHER 15 fitting so they can fit weapons as easily as the BC can alongside tank.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#96 - 2013-04-08 19:56:00 UTC
Wouldn't the Tempest make more sense as the Attack BS? The Typhoon is an odd enough duck to begin with, making it the poster child for swift Minmatar attacks... with missiles? That makes no frelling sense. The Tempest description even calls it a gunship. Definition: 'a light craft armed with heavy guns'. I'd really like to see the roles in the OP reversed.

The Maelstrom is the big bruiser raining death from afar.
The Typhoon can be the lovably ugly trash can spewing missiles in the middle distance.
The Tempest is the swift sailed flagship meant to dart in and hit hard.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#97 - 2013-04-08 21:17:37 UTC
Hmm, I havent read through the whole thread, but I'm very concerned about the increased sig radius. I want to see my minmatar ships staying as minmatar ships and not becoming melded into a homogonized mass with the other races.

Any chance of some reigning back of the sig radius increases as I always saw a low sig as fundamental and unique aspect to flying minmatar and would be sad to see that go.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#98 - 2013-04-08 21:19:13 UTC
Aeril Malkyre wrote:
Wouldn't the Tempest make more sense as the Attack BS? The Typhoon is an odd enough duck to begin with, making it the poster child for swift Minmatar attacks... with missiles? That makes no frelling sense. The Tempest description even calls it a gunship. Definition: 'a light craft armed with heavy guns'. I'd really like to see the roles in the OP reversed.

The Maelstrom is the big bruiser raining death from afar.
The Typhoon can be the lovably ugly trash can spewing missiles in the middle distance.
The Tempest is the swift sailed flagship meant to dart in and hit hard.



This would certainly make more sense to me also.
Circumstantial Evidence
#99 - 2013-04-08 21:20:30 UTC
Another vote for exchanging Typhoon and Tempest roles.

"Attack" roles should apply instant damage, not lead to comments like: "be patient, it's getting there soon(tm)."
DR BiCarbonate
Doomriders.
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#100 - 2013-04-08 21:43:15 UTC
Alice Saki wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Our redesign here aims to honor the spirit of the typhoon


You Failed.


tell me rise, how does this honor the spirit of the old phoon?

honestly interested in what you have to say.