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The trade window
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#21 - 2013-04-06 23:43:52 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
It's a gimme to not use trade window with someone you don't know and trust.

What is hilarious is that an admitted scammer, who also admits to using the same screwed up mechanic to cheat people, is now saying it's bad because it affected someone he knew ingame.

OP really should reimburse everyone he scammed by cheating them with this screwed up mechanic.

Scammer Karma...........


I will use whatever broken mechanic CCP permits to exist in the game. I'm not big on e-honor. But that doesn't change the fact that it is a broken mechanic.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#22 - 2013-04-06 23:47:07 UTC
Miilla wrote:
It is not an exploit, all the other party done was reset the terms and the accept flag went away then he signalled accept and your stupid player friend, accepted the new terms.


Wrong. I've tested it myself with alts. You can modify the isk amount and accept without the system revoking their acceptance. Effectively allowing one party to modify the "trade" without the approval of the other. It is the epitome of a broken game feature.

Miilla wrote:
Grow a backbone, some chest hair and some brass. Go play the game and stop acting like you shoudl get everything handed to you on a silver platter each time. Not having fun? Find another game.

The game I pay for is a cold harsh universe called Eve online, that is how it was sold and markted. If you expect something else, you bought the wrong game. Move on and stop ruining it for the rest of us.

You have no idea who I am if you think I'm at all interested in making Eve safer.

I want a bug fixed.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#23 - 2013-04-06 23:49:23 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Ok, so people are calling it an issue and a broken mechanic, but unless something has changed very recently, the whole thing comes down to buyer inattention.

So what is the issue here? How is it broken?


You have an expensive item. I open a trade window with you and set an isk amount in the trade. You drop the item in the window and click accept. Next thing you know, the number loses several zeroes and the trade closes with me accepting it.

Therein lies the broken-ness. One party can modify the deal at the last second without the other party having the ability to withdraw.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#24 - 2013-04-06 23:50:22 UTC
Eli Green wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I've run trade window scams on occasions


stopped reading here.

Thanks for stopping by, glad you bothered to understand the issue I'm raising.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Sakiya Shiratori
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-04-07 01:14:15 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:

You have an expensive item. I open a trade window with you and set an isk amount in the trade. You drop the item in the window and click accept. Next thing you know, the number loses several zeroes and the trade closes with me accepting it.


I just tested this, it doesn't work.
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#26 - 2013-04-07 01:19:17 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Eli Green wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I've run trade window scams on occasions


stopped reading here.

Thanks for stopping by, glad you bothered to understand the issue I'm raising.


You're welcome.

wumbo
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#27 - 2013-04-07 08:51:37 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Miilla wrote:
It is not an exploit, all the other party done was reset the terms and the accept flag went away then he signalled accept and your stupid player friend, accepted the new terms.


Wrong. I've tested it myself with alts. You can modify the isk amount and accept without the system revoking their acceptance. Effectively allowing one party to modify the "trade" without the approval of the other. It is the epitome of a broken game feature.

Miilla wrote:
Grow a backbone, some chest hair and some brass. Go play the game and stop acting like you shoudl get everything handed to you on a silver platter each time. Not having fun? Find another game.

The game I pay for is a cold harsh universe called Eve online, that is how it was sold and markted. If you expect something else, you bought the wrong game. Move on and stop ruining it for the rest of us.

You have no idea who I am if you think I'm at all interested in making Eve safer.

I want a bug fixed.



Then you are probably lagging on your client and didn't see the accept disappear. Seems to be a problem with your end.

What is the bug number you filed with repro steps so I can repro it here.
Sturmwolke
#28 - 2013-04-07 09:22:16 UTC
CCP took years to fix contract scams that used to run rampant.
People that falls for the contract scams nowadays are those that fails at reading and comprehension .... which is as it should be.

That said, the trade window UI is clunky and very basic. Older players tend to be very wary of direct trades due to the rampant scamming with it.
You get the word "rampant" tacked on when the success rates are high and everyone with their children, nieces, nephews, moms, fathers, wives and husbands are doing it.

If you want to get CCP to move their ass to fix it (to be less vulnerable to such scams) , petition it every time and ratchet up the noise level high. Be prepared to do that for months/years.
Historically, that's the only effective way to get them to fix things.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#29 - 2013-04-07 18:09:28 UTC
I've been unable to re-reproduce this issue. Apparently there's a trick to making it work consistently, but those few people I know who actively use it on a regular basis refuse to share what they know.

In any case, here's what I know about the process:

1) Scammer opens trade window with the mark and enters a value
2) The mark puts the item in the trade window and accepts
3) AFTER the accept button is clicked, the isk value changes and the trade window closes with the trade completed

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Ayame Tao
#30 - 2013-04-07 22:20:44 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I've been unable to re-reproduce this issue. Apparently there's a trick to making it work consistently, but those few people I know who actively use it on a regular basis refuse to share what they know.

In any case, here's what I know about the process:

1) Scammer opens trade window with the mark and enters a value
2) The mark puts the item in the trade window and accepts
3) AFTER the accept button is clicked, the isk value changes and the trade window closes with the trade completed


IME: (a step you're missing) Caps for emphasis on the key parts to this scam, not for shouting ;)

1) Scammer opens trade window with mark and enters the correct full value.
** 2) BEFORE mark can place item in the trade window, scammer must change the figure and hit accept again. This takes a quick hand and practice.
3) mark has not noticed the value change, one zero off the end isn't always easy to see. They place the item and DON'T CHECK THE FIGURE CAREFULLY. They are looking at the item they are dragging (and don't notice the speedy change from step 2) and just see the green tick.
4) mark clicks accept thinking all is well.

Is how it works. Which is why CCP don't agree it's a bug. In all instances I've seen or known someone well enough to get a true story, this is what happens.

People need to recheck everything in the window is correct (items, ISK, even check descriptions so you don't get 'Bhaalgorn' scammed (where a Navy Apoc has the ship name changed to Bhaalgorn, and they look very similar in their picture)


Personally, I agree that it's low and they should add clearer displays for ISK (like they did to help contract scams when they added the amount in words) Maybe make the font much bigger and include proper deliniators for units (commas between each thousand) so it's much easier to read.

It's pretty low scamming noobs with this though. Scamming noobs is fairly despicable at any time. People who have been around and should know better, all very well. Let the noobs get half a clue before you fleece everything they own off them.
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