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The trade window

Author
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#1 - 2013-04-06 16:30:59 UTC
I've run trade window scams on occasions. One of the rarer and more profitable ones is when you manage to trick someone into accepting a trade first, and then change the price before accepting yourself. You can obtain some very expensive items quite cheaply this way.

The thing is, I consider this an exploit. I've no problem using the mechanic while it exists, but after seeing some newbies get taken by it and knowing how demoralizing it is to be "scammed" simply because the UI doesn't function as one would expect, it's time to publicly push for a change.

I recently took on a newbie who got into lowsec exploration. He did a great job learning the ropes and after a month made his first big score: a half-billion isk module. He took it to a trade hub, posted it on the market, and commented in local that he'd listed it under market value. A few minutes later, he was the victim of this scam. He petitioned it and was rebuffed. He filed a bug report and was ignored. Ultimately he decided to quit the game. Not because he'd been scammed--he knew that was a reality when he started--but because the scam was due to a client mechanic that doesn't work properly and that CCP ignores and dismisses as "normal gameplay".

So why do I care? Because CCP is purposely ignoring a broken game mechanic. When you're setting up a trade and you "accept" what you see on the screen, the other person SHOULD NOT be able to modify the deal without your acceptance being revoked. After all, that's what "accept" means. "I accept the terms as I see them" not "I accept unless the other guy decides to revise the terms at the last second, at which point I will be unable to stop the trade at the new terms."

As petitions and bug reports have failed to resolve this issue for those victimized by it (including those I've used it on) I'm taking this public in the hope that CCP will at the very least read and respond to it.

What I'd like to see happen:
- The trade window be made into to what it's supposed to be.
- Failing that, the trade window expressly state that it is NOT a secure method of trading
- OR, CCP publicly state that they don't care when their UI is broken to the point that it costs them subscriptions.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#2 - 2013-04-06 16:35:42 UTC
I completely agree that this is a broken UI mechanic that should be fixed.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Ifly Uwalk
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-04-06 16:38:07 UTC
Doesn't the green check mark go away when the other guy changes something in his trade window?
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#4 - 2013-04-06 16:38:34 UTC
Add me to the list. I am surprised this has not been fixed by now.

/stopped using the trade window with other players long ago

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#5 - 2013-04-06 16:40:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Miilla
It's not a bug, its to allow changing of the trade terms.

Would you prefer we put more load the server more load on you in effort by having to close and reopen trade windows to adjust terms?
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#6 - 2013-04-06 16:41:18 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I've run trade window scams on occasions


stopped reading here.

wumbo

Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#7 - 2013-04-06 16:42:34 UTC
Wow I never use the trade function with people I dont know. Now I know why. That is about the worst example of a trade window I have heard of.

That is pure sloppiness and laziness on CCP's end for trade window to function like this.

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie

Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#8 - 2013-04-06 16:42:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Miilla
If you don't like it, don't use it.

Use contracts. They are unscamable, oh wait..

All the whining about contracts used for scamming, all the changes made to contracts, you still fall for them because of one simple thing, lack of comprehension and patience..

You have the market, we can scam on that.
You have contracts, we can scam on that.
You have trades, we can scam on that.

NOTHING will please you, not even the death of Eve.
Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#9 - 2013-04-06 16:43:20 UTC
Miilla wrote:
It's not a bug, its to allow changing of the trade terms.

Would you prefer we put more load the server more load on you in effort by having to close and reopen trade windows to adjust terms?

Yes.

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie

Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#10 - 2013-04-06 16:45:09 UTC
Lady Zarrina wrote:
Miilla wrote:
It's not a bug, its to allow changing of the trade terms.

Would you prefer we put more load the server more load on you in effort by having to close and reopen trade windows to adjust terms?

Yes.


That means every item you put in a trade window will have to be readed each time. I can have fun with that :)

Good idea :)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#11 - 2013-04-06 16:47:06 UTC
…so rename it the “exchange window”. vOv
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#12 - 2013-04-06 16:47:43 UTC
It's a gimme to not use trade window with someone you don't know and trust.

What is hilarious is that an admitted scammer, who also admits to using the same screwed up mechanic to cheat people, is now saying it's bad because it affected someone he knew ingame.

OP really should reimburse everyone he scammed by cheating them with this screwed up mechanic.

Scammer Karma...........

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.

Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#13 - 2013-04-06 16:48:18 UTC
Miilla wrote:
Lady Zarrina wrote:
Miilla wrote:
It's not a bug, its to allow changing of the trade terms.

Would you prefer we put more load the server more load on you in effort by having to close and reopen trade windows to adjust terms?

Yes.


That means every item you put in a trade window will have to be readed each time. I can have fun with that :)

Good idea :)

No if you actually understood the issue, it was after an Accept was issued. So yes. Good idea.

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie

Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#14 - 2013-04-06 16:51:33 UTC
Lady Zarrina wrote:
Miilla wrote:
Lady Zarrina wrote:
Miilla wrote:
It's not a bug, its to allow changing of the trade terms.

Would you prefer we put more load the server more load on you in effort by having to close and reopen trade windows to adjust terms?

Yes.


That means every item you put in a trade window will have to be readed each time. I can have fun with that :)

Good idea :)

No if you actually understood the issue, it was after an Accept was issued. So yes. Good idea.


Accept was removed but he still hit accept anyway after the other party signalled accept, he should not be so hasty and learn patience.

Or use contracts if you are impatient but we will scam you there if you are not anyway.

Either way, you are screwed in this game if you have no patience or any kind of useful life skills.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#15 - 2013-04-06 16:52:36 UTC
I agree with the OP.

I'm fine with scamming the stupid, gullible or inebriated. All fair game.

But being able to scam because of a broken mechanic that is seemingly left in place simply to prove how 'hardcore' this game is, is just a poor decision by lazy devs.

Mr Epeen Cool
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#16 - 2013-04-06 16:54:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Miilla
It is not an exploit, all the other party done was reset the terms and the accept flag went away then he signalled accept and your stupid player friend, accepted the new terms.

Never never rush the accept button, that is what he done. And he paid for it.

If the terms where being changed continually with the hope for him to accept that is a warning sign right there of a scam, use a contract, if they don't then most likley, scam.

I got scammed once, for 19m when I started, since then Ive churned through hundreds of billions of isk and have a nice fat wallet and hanger.

I still get scammed now and then and each time, I laugh how I fell for it. Its called learning, so learn and go make your isk back, I made mine back, and a very nice profit too after the lesson.

Tough totty..


Grow a backbone, some chest hair and some brass. Go play the game and stop acting like you shoudl get everything handed to you on a silver platter each time. Not having fun? Find another game.

The game I pay for is a cold harsh universe called Eve online, that is how it was sold and markted. If you expect something else, you bought the wrong game. Move on and stop ruining it for the rest of us.
Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#17 - 2013-04-06 16:56:44 UTC
Miilla wrote:
Lady Zarrina wrote:
Miilla wrote:
Lady Zarrina wrote:
Miilla wrote:
It's not a bug, its to allow changing of the trade terms.

Would you prefer we put more load the server more load on you in effort by having to close and reopen trade windows to adjust terms?

Yes.


That means every item you put in a trade window will have to be readed each time. I can have fun with that :)

Good idea :)

No if you actually understood the issue, it was after an Accept was issued. So yes. Good idea.


Accept was removed but he still hit accept anyway after the other party signalled accept, he should not be so hasty and learn patience.

Or use contracts if you are impatient but we will scam you there if you are not anyway.

Either way, you are screwed in this game if you have no patience or any kind of useful life skills.


Well I see where an informed discussion will go here. But as long as you are having fun Miilla :)

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#18 - 2013-04-06 16:57:03 UTC
Ok, so people are calling it an issue and a broken mechanic, but unless something has changed very recently, the whole thing comes down to buyer inattention.

So what is the issue here? How is it broken?
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#19 - 2013-04-06 16:59:17 UTC
I know CCP removed the learning skill scrolls from the game but this is just ridiculous, Im ok with role playing and all that but just because the game has no learning skills doesnt mean you actually have to stop learning.

*facepalms*
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#20 - 2013-04-06 23:42:47 UTC
Miilla wrote:
It's not a bug, its to allow changing of the trade terms.

Would you prefer we put more load the server more load on you in effort by having to close and reopen trade windows to adjust terms?

Because the only other option is to force them to close the trade window.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

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