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New blog: All quiet on the EVE Launcher front?

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Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#181 - 2013-03-14 09:53:07 UTC
The Groundskeeper wrote:
Kronanius wrote:
My problem lies with something mentioned earlier called the "Pando Media Booster". Getting that product running under WINE is a gigantic nightmare.
~Kronanius


I didn't spot that Pando was being considered. If it's that dross then definitely count me out.

Except it wasn't considered

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#182 - 2013-03-14 11:05:41 UTC
We're not using Pando Media Booster. I hope that clears things up Smile
Vedrea
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#183 - 2013-03-14 11:08:32 UTC
Request:


Auto-Play tick box.



Thank you please. Come again.

Also, my ISP (British Telecom Infinity) do arbitrary traffic shaping with deep packet inspection for torrents until after midnight. I would seriously like the option to use HTTP over BitTorrent if possible.

Ta.
Valkyrs
Deep Vein Trading
#184 - 2013-03-14 11:51:05 UTC
I'm good with it, would you be encrypting the traffic to try to avoid the bittorrent traffic shaping?

Also it would be nice if you guys could provide an RSS feed for updates, so I can get the updates from my native BitTorrent client and the download started right away, before I log in to EVE and rather than having another daemon running for updates.
CCP Aporia
C C P
C C P Alliance
#185 - 2013-03-14 13:31:19 UTC
Valkyrs wrote:
I'm good with it, would you be encrypting the traffic to try to avoid the bittorrent traffic shaping?

Also it would be nice if you guys could provide an RSS feed for updates, so I can get the updates from my native BitTorrent client and the download started right away, before I log in to EVE and rather than having another daemon running for updates.


You won't be able to use a native bittorrent client. While we do use the BitTorrent protocol then we do some post-processing of the files we receive in order to make them usable by the EVE client.

Friend of walking avatars, currently hibernating until he gets to open that door.
loquacious7
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#186 - 2013-03-15 01:34:40 UTC
CCP Aporia wrote:
Aethlyn wrote:
Sounds interesting. I just hope you include your own torrent handling and don't use any abomination such as that dreaded Pando Media Booster. :)

Also, I'd suggest by default the launcher should ask on first start, whether it should use bittorrent connections or just classic HTTP, because at least in Germany, some ISPs (like universities or some mobile providers) don't like to see P2P traffic and will rightout block, slowdown or sanctionize it (e.g. by cutting your internet access if there're too high P2P Transfers). Always think of unaware/non-savy computer users/players.


We are not using Pando Media Booster or anything like that. The launcher is using it's own mechanism, which is based on a publically available torrent client library. By default it will use HTTP as transport as well as BitTorrent, so you should be all good even when you cannot use any P2P traffic.
This is also one of the reasons why we want to bring it to a test server near you soon, so that we can gain more experience with how the mechanism would perform for people behind restrictive firewalls / ISPs.


Speaking of Test Server, Why my Windows 7 hates my sisi launcher is beond me. I have followed every instruction several times but still can only manage to have two sisi launchers or two Retribution launchers. ie they can be named something else and be created rom seperate folders but will auto rename the destination of the other launcher when used. So I can clean up my files and reinstal all 5.3 GB of game and start over or I can just play on sisi :-) what a great trick if CCP could make a seperate launcher to sisi from the Retribution Launcher or a link.
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#187 - 2013-03-15 02:28:02 UTC
Karl Mattar wrote:
Is there any way you can set the launcher to launch multiple eve windows for those of us who run two (or more) accounts at the same time? Configurable with different settings for monitors?

I have two monitors. They are different sizes. It is quite the pain to start everything up because the settings don't hold over from session to session. Whichever session I closed last is how it all starts up again.

Otherwise, I have no issues with this proposal at all.


Use junction (free download from MS). makes life a lot easier with several clients ;)
LiKuei
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#188 - 2013-03-15 05:44:34 UTC
If there is going top be a way to "Opt OUT" of using your proposed Torrent set-up, you will keep me as a customer.

I do not buy games that use internet sites to validate them (i.e Steam) nor do I use Torrent sites. A partial reason for this is that most of the ISPs I have at my disposal do not let you use these. A secondary reason is that I do not want my computer talking to the world 24/7.
Malifae
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#189 - 2013-03-15 06:28:47 UTC
By design, the Bit Torrent protocol exposes the IP address of every peer to which you send or receive data, regardless of any encryption. Sounds like a great mechanism for someone to compile a database of IP addresses of known EVE players. I can't imagine anyone would ever do something nefarious with that information.

Yeah.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#190 - 2013-03-15 07:52:40 UTC
Malifae wrote:
By design, the Bit Torrent protocol exposes the IP address of every peer to which you send or receive data, regardless of any encryption. Sounds like a great mechanism for someone to compile a database of IP addresses of known EVE players. I can't imagine anyone would ever do something nefarious with that information.

Yeah.

What exactly do you expect someone to do with your IP address?
MainDrain
Applied Anarchy
The Initiative.
#191 - 2013-03-15 10:02:24 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Malifae wrote:
By design, the Bit Torrent protocol exposes the IP address of every peer to which you send or receive data, regardless of any encryption. Sounds like a great mechanism for someone to compile a database of IP addresses of known EVE players. I can't imagine anyone would ever do something nefarious with that information.

Yeah.

What exactly do you expect someone to do with your IP address?


Eat his firstborn? its a worry I have anyway.

Serious note, like the idea of this. Mainly because my work wifi doesnt restrict torrent traffic (limits speed rather than wholesale blocking) so I should be able to patch at work
Malifae
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#192 - 2013-03-15 11:11:05 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Malifae wrote:
By design, the Bit Torrent protocol exposes the IP address of every peer to which you send or receive data, regardless of any encryption. Sounds like a great mechanism for someone to compile a database of IP addresses of known EVE players. I can't imagine anyone would ever do something nefarious with that information.

Yeah.

What exactly do you expect someone to do with your IP address?


If you have to ask, there is no point trying to explain it to you.
Whitehound
#193 - 2013-03-15 11:42:40 UTC
A nice read. Sounds great all in all. I am looking forward to the new launcher.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#194 - 2013-03-15 16:13:23 UTC
CCP Aporia wrote:
Scaugh wrote:
is there any information on what additional/extra bandwith useage we should be expecting with these changes. I'm on a fairly limited data package as it is, with large charges for execeeding it.

I know any answer would probably be dependant on hours played but surely with a change like this you have some sort of calcuations done (even if its on your ownserver side).


So, because of the way we are changing things the amount of data downloaded for a fresh client install is round about 11 GB. This is roughly double the amount of the current installer, but this should only be happening if you have absolutely no files installed, or everything in your installation is corrupted our outdated. Since you already have an installation then this case should be of no immediate concern to you.

From measuring the differences of 13 EVE client updates we ended up with the smallest patch size being about 9 MB and the largest 2.4 GB. The extra bandwidth on your end that might be opposed by seeding files depends upon the speed at which you seed. A simple calculation: If you upload at 1/10th of the speed you are downloading, and the client update is 2 GB, then the extra bandwidth is pretty much 200 MB.

Hope this helps. :-)


Here's a thought - stop making the client grow to unwieldy sizes! For example - adding code so that character make can be run while the rest of the download is in progress. Creating a character is such an incredibly small part of the EVE experience, in terms of time, that adding yet more bloated code to the package is ridiculous. We expect to have to wait for the download to complete before we start using it.

Drop code that isn't needed. CQ - serves no purpose. Drop it.

Implement better coding practices. Companies can do better at squeezing code. They just put the thought of code bloat aside until they hit the bandwidth/disk image wall. Then they are trapped by a mountain of bloated legacy code.

THE last thing I want on my PC is BitTorrent.

Do something we really want - toon switching without re-launch of client. THAT would be useful.
Wodensun
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#195 - 2013-03-15 16:35:25 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Malifae wrote:
By design, the Bit Torrent protocol exposes the IP address of every peer to which you send or receive data, regardless of any encryption. Sounds like a great mechanism for someone to compile a database of IP addresses of known EVE players. I can't imagine anyone would ever do something nefarious with that information.

Yeah.

What exactly do you expect someone to do with your IP address?


DoS.
DDoS.
Exploiting your Router/Modem.
Possibly Man in the Middle attacks.
Messing with your EvE client since we know what ports it listens on.


I might be able to think of more but i'd need to run a nmap vs your IP first...
Which incidentally was handed to me by CCP...

Do not give me likes them 101 likes arent a accident...
Wanderer Unknown
Trust N1
#196 - 2013-03-15 16:55:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Wanderer Unknown
// deleted
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#197 - 2013-03-15 18:27:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Primary This Rifter
Wodensun wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Malifae wrote:
By design, the Bit Torrent protocol exposes the IP address of every peer to which you send or receive data, regardless of any encryption. Sounds like a great mechanism for someone to compile a database of IP addresses of known EVE players. I can't imagine anyone would ever do something nefarious with that information.

Yeah.

What exactly do you expect someone to do with your IP address?


DoS.
DDoS.
Exploiting your Router/Modem.
Possibly Man in the Middle attacks.
Messing with your EvE client since we know what ports it listens on.


I might be able to think of more but i'd need to run a nmap vs your IP first...
Which incidentally was handed to me by CCP...

None of which anyone on the internet who was determined to exploit couldn't exploit without using a bittorrent client.

My point is that the torrent doesn't provide any vulnerabilities that aren't already there.
AenS
UbiConcordia
#198 - 2013-03-15 18:30:40 UTC
BitTorrent: Ok why not.
And Thanks for keeping the old way as well!
Just one little thing, -its not mentioned anywhere in the devblog nor this topic-

Implement : Proxy settings !!!

I can't use the current launcher at work because of that...My only workaround is this:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2047931#post2047931

with this:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1689275#post1689275 (when the links in the thread are actually up to date)

SO please, make the life easy for everyone :)


Thank you for your attention!
Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#199 - 2013-03-15 20:22:57 UTC
A great move in the right direction.

It does amuses me the amount of idiotic comments and "concerns" in this thread though.

Looking forward to the new launcher.

--== EvE Online Quick Reference Sheet: E-Uni Forums Link / EvE Forums Link ==--
Sierra Mackenzie
Black Widow Logistics
#200 - 2013-03-15 22:55:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Sierra Mackenzie
So glad you're dedicating programming time to improving the launcher than improving the actual game. Instead of improving the experience for existing players, they're improving it to draw in new players. Why else would they need to improve Steam integration?

...

Edit: Also, all of the tinfoil hat wearers in this thread crack me up. Oh noes, BitTorrent is going to eat my computer and malicious users are going to have my IP! Whatever shall I do!?