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New blog: All quiet on the EVE Launcher front?

First post First post
Author
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2013-03-11 18:38:41 UTC
Ryunosuke Kusanagi wrote:
a serious concern here in the US.

With CAS/Six Strikes rolled out, and obviously already claiming false positives on LEGAL files, how can i possibly be affected with EVE Online files essentially "Copyrighted material". I don't really want to start a political debate here, but politics in the US are veering towards the technophobe stage, if it hasn't already, and it is affecting P2P network traffic among other things.

Well you can make an appeal at the cost of $35 and state that the copyright owner gave you permission to distribute the material (and if CCP's legal team is at all present and competent they will have such clauses up). If your appeal is successful you get your $35 back and whatever sanctions you had will be lifted.

Of course this is all at the mercy of THEIR chosen arbitrator and you don't get a second appeal...

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Sturmwolke
#62 - 2013-03-11 18:42:08 UTC
You know ...... I fell down laughing. The EVE community has been berating CCP for YEARS on this, and you've finally seen the light.
Now back then, who was the wiseguy that went the other way? Twisted
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2013-03-11 18:51:17 UTC
my router crashes if I have more than 10-12 active connections, so I hope we will be able to limit the connection count or force HTTP (as other games allow the user to do).

.

Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#64 - 2013-03-11 18:55:00 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
my router crashes if I have more than 10-12 active connections, so I hope we will be able to limit the connection count or force HTTP (as other games allow the user to do).


You really need a new router. Only 12 connections is ridiculous.
Beness
Vojtech Fekete
#65 - 2013-03-11 18:56:34 UTC
Ryunosuke Kusanagi wrote:
a serious concern here in the US.

With CAS/Six Strikes rolled out, and obviously already claiming false positives on LEGAL files, how can i possibly be affected with EVE Online files essentially "Copyrighted material". I don't really want to start a political debate here, but politics in the US are veering towards the technophobe stage, if it hasn't already, and it is affecting P2P network traffic among other things.


CAS/Six Strikes works as follows:


  • Monitoring company joins public swarm
  • Monitoring company determines which IPs are uploading files which match the hash of copyright files
  • Monitoring company contacts ISP and informs which IPs are sharing copyright files.


Since the launcher is going to be running on an effectively private swarm, the monitoring company won't join it. CCP can implement checks to make sure that only launchers are talking on the swarm, technically.

This also addresses an earlier poster, who was concerned about malicious files being shared. Since CCP is the only one putting files into the swarm, malicious files could only be injected if CCP were compromised. This is the same situation we're in right now - if someone attacks CCP and puts bad files on the patch server, your launcher will download them.

Actually, the use of BitTorrent (and its hash-checking) means that even if CCP is compromised, your launcher may notice that the files "look" wrong and prevent their execution - the same mechanism in BitTorrent that protects against file corruption also prevents the wrong file from being used.
SamuraiJack
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-03-11 19:13:34 UTC
Then start voting out your politicians that are in the media mafia's pay.

SJ's Chronicles - http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2103579/CLS-SamuraiJack

Josef Djugashvilis
#67 - 2013-03-11 19:38:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
If you get any feedback saying that the launcher 'improvements' on not working properly, please pay attention.

My only complaint against CCP is that they tend to ignore player feedback and release things despite players pointing out obvious problems with the latest whizz bang idea.

The new inventory system and the half-baked mission drone AI are good examples of the, 'must release stuff to meet some self imposed target date rather than when it is ready'

This is not a signature.

Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2013-03-11 20:03:25 UTC
I understand why CCP is doing this, what I don't get is why. Specially right now Lol.
Kiran
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2013-03-11 20:21:03 UTC
Not had a lot to do with Bit Torrents, but if we are sharing information with other Eve users wont this open our PC's up to viruses that can be installed within the Eve file system ?

So you therefore share a virus over the net to all other Eve users through the patching ?
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#70 - 2013-03-11 21:10:07 UTC
Any chance of having the launcher live in the system tray, like steam?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Liner Xiandra
Sparks Inc
#71 - 2013-03-11 21:40:32 UTC
My launcher still shows the Incarna splash-screen, just sayin'.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#72 - 2013-03-11 21:48:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
There should be an option to not use bittorrent, at all. A lot of universities will outright insta-block your connection for using any p2p technologies.

I'm not talking about simply blocking the p2p connection. I'm talking about blocking the user from accessing their network at all. Happened to me when I tried to play some koren MMO...they just assume you've made a trip to the pirate bay and cut you off.

thhief ghabmoef

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#73 - 2013-03-11 22:25:17 UTC
Team Special Circumstances eh ? Culture reference I hope!

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

45thtiger 0109
Pandemic Legion
#74 - 2013-03-11 22:31:15 UTC
Hey CCP

Great job finding that a bittorrent system to download the expansion & patch.

WoT MMO uses The Bittorrent system and it works very well.

I do not get any error or problems with Bittorrent system at all when I use the WoT launcher.


LolBlink

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**

Dances With Valkyries
#75 - 2013-03-11 22:52:38 UTC
Kiran wrote:
Not had a lot to do with Bit Torrents, but if we are sharing information with other Eve users wont this open our PC's up to viruses that can be installed within the Eve file system ?

So you therefore share a virus over the net to all other Eve users through the patching ?
I've not had much experience with BitTorrents either so I'm also interested in what checks will there be to prevent uploading modified code from other Eve users?

And don't we need to open ports in our firewalls to allow the upload? What happens if I don't do this?
Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2013-03-11 23:05:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxandrolone
Can you elaborate on
Quote:
and support for multi-box and test-client installations.


Its not exactly a secret that many people multibox in EVE. Features such as a shared wallet between accounts, switching character without having to log in again etc would be awesome.

Having a 'master' EvE account that you can then link 'sub-accounts' to would be a massive awesome feature. Imagine if this account could have 1 API for all your needs.

Some way to automatically install the various test servers would for sure increase participation on the test-realms.
Cheng0001
Shadow of Red Fworfare Bearing Alt Corp
#77 - 2013-03-11 23:45:43 UTC
THIS IS IRRELEVANT
T3 BATTLESHIPS
GIVE US T3 BATTLESHIPS
GIVE US T3 BATTLESHIPS!
EXTERMINATE!
Cpt Underpants
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-03-12 00:09:15 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

Phext wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
As far as I'm aware, if P2P traffic is encrypted, ISP's can't read it as P2P traffic and cannot throttle it. If you use data encryption, it should work fine.


ISPs may throttle well known BT port ranges (TCP 6881-6889 is used for transport). They don't necessarily need to look into the traffic. One may bypass this throttling by using different port ranges.

Not easy to bypass, the way a lot of the filtering boxes work is they look at the SSL certificate used to encrypt the data. Certain data patterns are flagged as potentially P2P, it is analysed centrally and if found to be P2P the certificate itself is then used to confirm P2P and implement throttling. Next comes the issue of carrier-grade NAT which can further limit the ability to use P2P.

Also in Australia most ISPs count both uploads and downloads against our data caps. We pay for Eve Online, why should we pay more by potentially doubling the amount of data used for each update? A lot of countries have data caps, a lot of internet providers have detection for P2P to throttle or block.

Next we have the potential issues with the new USA "six-strikes" P2P policies and the equivilents in other countries. There is talk it detects all P2P traffic, not just illicit ones. Even with white-listing certain things, many people may receive warnings before the Eve launcher is exempted.

Will P2P cost CCP less than a network of content nodes? I think it will. As long as the number of CDNs is adequate and I can turn off torrenting before anything starts, I'll be happy.

Lurk more - http://i39.tinypic.com/2nktoiq.gif

DeltaPhalanx
Hordes Of Belial
#79 - 2013-03-12 00:13:34 UTC
Dear Launcher Team;

While I certainly support updating the launcher to use a reliable delivery method, and recognise that you will still partially support http downloads, I do not see you commenting on various other users concerns reguarding how many ISP's currently penalise peer-to-peer based traffic.

From first hand experience with my own provider, I have watched my internet connection's performance degrade severely when utilising p2p based systems to perfectly legal content delivery systems (other online games which use p2p patch delivery), and as soon as that download completes or is ended prematurely, the network returns to normal.

Will it be possible to have this updated launcher use a purely http based download, with some kind of hash/checksum verification and fully disable the torrent to avoid provider penalties?
Proddy Scun
Doomheim
#80 - 2013-03-12 00:42:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Proddy Scun
You do know many ISPs and networks block bittorrent - right? And corruption can occur when court ordered internet wire tapping of bittorrent is done at routers.

Also bittorrent is not particularly good at the initial mass release of large files. Until a critical mass of complete files are online as seeders -- bittorent tends to stall for lots of people as the network gets obsessed with giving everyone the first MOST available part of the file. Until a fair fraction of people have the parts you are missing you can end up just sitting in a bittorrent traffic jam. Your idea of having people with complete downloads signed off of bittorrent will make this much much worse.
If mapping to nearest-least busy regional server cache of client, bittorrent may or not have good available.

Attention So I recommend you do not make BitTorrent the only launcher download protocol.


Idea So why not design the main body of the launcher to be as protocol independent as possible? Include a toolbox of protocols.
Sure launcher may have to skip/substitute some techniques as protocol features vary.

Default to bittorrent. But maybe include alternates like HTTP 1.1 as fall back solutions. Even let user select which one to use. Maybe even have bittorrent status checks on seeder/leecher ratios and availability before selecting bittorrent as default.


As one alternative protocol look at low overhead tunneling to regional distribution points that may allow you to use wrapped protocols of your choice (keep routers from stripping those pesky HTTPS range headers). After all you don't really care about encryption security, so you could probably custom code to fake the hardware/CPU intense encryption and just say its encrypted before encapsulation. Have to get regional distribution servers loaded to support that of course.