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New blog: All quiet on the EVE Launcher front?

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Author
Phext
SIGBUS
#161 - 2013-03-13 15:44:30 UTC
Of course. Sharing settings between instances is a matter of personal taste.

The ability to run any number of clients with varying screen resolutions and modes, sound and graphic settings from one binary installation would be my use case. I don't think that's possible with the current launcher. Being able to do it with 3rd party tools using junctions IMO is a workaround for the lack of function in the launcher / application. It shouldn't be too hard to implement basic profile handling and keep it simple for the uninitiated.

Sharing settings may be problem if concurrent access on the same resource isn't handled properly. i.e.: changing a keyboard shortcut in instance A and alt-tabbing to instance B afterwards. It all depends on when this kind of configuration is loaded and if it's getting monitored to be updated.

It's nice to see that the launcher is getting a bit more of attention. In it's current state the launcher is not as feature rich as it could be.

:wq!

The Groundskeeper
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#162 - 2013-03-13 15:46:27 UTC  |  Edited by: The Groundskeeper
CCP Atropos wrote:
BigDaddyMcFatSacks wrote:
want nothing to do with bit torrent or anything like that.

If I cant disable it completely and download from EVE servers, well this is where we are gonna part ways after all these years.

Can you elaborate on why you don't want to be part of it. We can't account for this response if it's just "because".


I can kinda back him up on this: post-patch, if I am looking at bittorrent being the only option I'm not going to wait there for two days for Virgin National's throttled traffic on all available P2P ports. I speak from experience as I already unsubbed from WoW because of the ultra-slow patching speeds: it was just too much hassle. Do a search for "WoW P2p Patch" for a blizzard (heh" of dissatisfied customers.

Before anyone suggests "get a new ISP" they're otherwise great (unlimited bandwidth, fast connection) but they traffic shape heavily on P2P ports, which is fine by me as I don't use bittorrent. I have to use the backup Eve port since the default one is a targeted port for shaping and deep packet sniffing and taking 30 seconds to load a system kinda sucks.
BigDaddyMcFatSacks
Space Olympics LLC
#163 - 2013-03-13 16:22:36 UTC
Accan wrote:
BigDaddyMcFatSacks wrote:
want nothing to do with bit torrent or anything like that.

If I cant disable it completely and download from EVE servers, well this is where we are gonna part ways after all these years.


From common experienes : There has almost everytime been an option in the download option section to turn off p2p sharing to get the orginal content from the distrubitors servers only, but as stated above p2p sharing is the future to optmize youre download speeds to quicker be able to take part of major (big) updates quicker than to download the patch from one single strained server (CCP) ( CCP might have more servers to distribute the patch but i hope you see my point)


Already have farely fast speeds. Can D/L eve in about 30 mins if necessary. I have yet to have a problem downloading eve that lasted more than a few hours, and that was when eve was down so i fail to see how p2p is gonna help.

I have no problems if its better for others or whatever. But I want no part of p2p. Reading thru some of the read, apparently you can snatch peoples ips via bittorent. So that should be reason enough to not do it.
BigDaddyMcFatSacks
Space Olympics LLC
#164 - 2013-03-13 16:27:33 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
BigDaddyMcFatSacks wrote:
want nothing to do with bit torrent or anything like that.

If I cant disable it completely and download from EVE servers, well this is where we are gonna part ways after all these years.

Can you elaborate on why you don't want to be part of it. We can't account for this response if it's just "because".


Sure

1) Security. IP being able to be known by others, fake files, viruses, etc. Sorry i know about cheksums and all that but Im just not convinced its safe if it comes off someone besides an official eve server.

2) False flagging of ISP for torrents

3) No problems the way it is currently.

4) Throttling of my connection when P2P is detected

5) Being somewhere with P2P is not available (port blocked, univeristies, etc) making it worthless.
Phext
SIGBUS
#165 - 2013-03-13 16:37:41 UTC
BigDaddyMcFatSacks wrote:

1) Security. IP being able to be known by others


Not an issue at all. Generally speaking, without the other side knowing your IP, the Net would be a boring place...

:wq!

BigDaddyMcFatSacks
Space Olympics LLC
#166 - 2013-03-13 16:40:41 UTC
Phext wrote:
BigDaddyMcFatSacks wrote:

1) Security. IP being able to be known by others


Not an issue at all. Generally speaking, without the other side knowing your IP, the Net would be a boring place...


I think you misunderstand. As stated a few posts above someone could find out your ip thru P2P and then flood you rendering your connection basically useless. Maybe that is extreme, but it is certainly an issue.
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#167 - 2013-03-13 16:48:56 UTC
BigDaddyMcFatSacks wrote:
Phext wrote:
BigDaddyMcFatSacks wrote:

1) Security. IP being able to be known by others


Not an issue at all. Generally speaking, without the other side knowing your IP, the Net would be a boring place...


I think you misunderstand. As stated a few posts above someone could find out your ip thru P2P and then flood you rendering your connection basically useless. Maybe that is extreme, but it is certainly an issue.



anyone can flood any IP at their wishes. Why would they target you when there are tens of thousand IP downloading at the same time?
BigDaddyMcFatSacks
Space Olympics LLC
#168 - 2013-03-13 17:05:24 UTC
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
BigDaddyMcFatSacks wrote:
Phext wrote:
BigDaddyMcFatSacks wrote:

1) Security. IP being able to be known by others


Not an issue at all. Generally speaking, without the other side knowing your IP, the Net would be a boring place...


I think you misunderstand. As stated a few posts above someone could find out your ip thru P2P and then flood you rendering your connection basically useless. Maybe that is extreme, but it is certainly an issue.



anyone can flood any IP at their wishes. Why would they target you when there are tens of thousand IP downloading at the same time?


To gain an advantage in eve? Still doesnt adress the other points.
Phext
SIGBUS
#169 - 2013-03-13 17:27:25 UTC
It's impossible to make a relationship between IP and Account / Character if this is your concern.

Using the ingame browser visiting trusted websites is much more dangerous in this context. The website owner, or whoever is permitted to read access logs, is able to make a direct relationship of address and character name (besides tons of other data). All data one needs for a denial of service targeted at a specific player.

:wq!

BigDaddyMcFatSacks
Space Olympics LLC
#170 - 2013-03-13 17:30:58 UTC
Phext wrote:
It's impossible to make a relationship between IP and Account / Character if this is your concern.

Using the ingame browser visiting trusted websites is much more dangerous in this context. The website owner, or whoever is permitted to read access logs, is able to make a direct relationship of address and character name (besides tons of other data). All data one needs for a denial of service targeted at a specific player.


That is my concern as far the ip thing goes.
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#171 - 2013-03-13 17:53:33 UTC
BigDaddyMcFatSacks wrote:


1) Sorry i know about cheksums and all that but Im just not convinced its safe if it comes off someone besides an official eve server.


They only way to know if it's coming from the CCP is via checksums in the first place.

How do you think EvE knows the files have not be corrupted during the transfer? How do you think the encrypted connection to CCP works? Checksums.
Phext
SIGBUS
#172 - 2013-03-13 18:25:28 UTC
BigDaddyMcFatSacks wrote:

1) ....fake files, viruses, etc. Sorry i know about cheksums and all that but Im just not convinced its safe if it comes off someone besides an official eve server.


"Official" servers: you simply can't be sure that your download location is under exclusive control of one specific entity (which doesn't make things more secure always anyway). Even if you download from content.eveonline.com you can't be sure that it's not just a node of Akamai's or Limelight Content Delivery Network. This is by design.

File fragments with evil payload on torrent peers? Technical possible for sure but unlikely because of the cost of collision attacks on SHA-1 which is used for torrents AFAIR.

:wq!

Kronanius
Thunder-Struck
#173 - 2013-03-13 18:26:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kronanius
So I'm gonna be "that linux guy". It's my duty to say the following: please don't screw it up for us!

I have no *inherent* issues with bittorrent. In fact, I think the protocol is great for this type of client distribution. My problem lies with something mentioned earlier called the "Pando Media Booster". Getting that product running under WINE is a gigantic nightmare. Since you are a team of 3 people, trying to do a big, probably thankless, and seemingly peripheral job, with an awful lot of potential technical issues to deal with, I can completely understand that the tiny minority of us who have to (read: MUST) emulate the windows API in order to play are [probably] at the bottom of the list.

But I would request, on behalf of the people in my particular situation, that you Devs keep in mind that an overly-complex launcher (something with a lot of proprietary or non-standard integration protocols) WILL break the entire EVE client for some of us. Worst-case scenario, a work-around (like a parallel, technically simple launcher that uses a standards-based bittorrent protocol) would be hugely appreciated. In fact, depending on how you do your workflow, you might get something like this running and then try adding features to it until it turns out how you want it. If that's the case, please just save the old, simple version for those of us who need it!

Thanks for your time!
~Kronanius
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#174 - 2013-03-13 18:56:27 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:

The EVE Launcher uses a module in the Python standard library called webbrowser, to find and open the relevant browser. It does this by examining your computers system path for known browsers, and failing that simply uses IE. I would imagine that it's unable to find your chosen browser.

The irony is that we used to simply delegate the call to the operating system, by using the OS to open the associated application for the URL (ie: equivalent to going Windows -> Run -> http://eveonline.com) but we removed it in favour of the webbrowser module, for precisely the reason you list; in some cases we were incorrectly loading using IE rather than the users installed (and preferred) browser.


Apparently that Python module limits itself to searching for C:\.

Too bad everybody who tries to optimize performance or to make for easier backups or wants to use a combo of traditional + SDD hard disks will have their stuff on two different disks.
It's my case, IE sits on C:\ because it's where Win7 sits, but the other browsers are in E:\
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#175 - 2013-03-13 19:03:35 UTC
Caesar Rae wrote:
BitTorrent may be good for the rest of the planet , however , the copyright ****'s , aka Hollywood , have the ISP's in the USA monitoring the ports that application uses and some outright block them.


Post after post it becomes clear that USA residents have a common issue: they keep voting the wrong people. Blink
Anun Hen
Pew Pew Pirates
#176 - 2013-03-13 21:43:47 UTC
Please provide an option to download directly through HTTP.

FYI, some ISPs filter/throttle completely any bittorrent traffic during certain periods of the day (BT in the UK for example).

If you make bittorrent compulsory for updating the client, it will make it impossible for me to do so during "normal" hours. Changing ISP is not an option right now.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#177 - 2013-03-13 22:50:45 UTC
Karl Mattar wrote:
Is there any way you can set the launcher to launch multiple eve windows for those of us who run two (or more) accounts at the same time? Configurable with different settings for monitors?

I have two monitors. They are different sizes. It is quite the pain to start everything up because the settings don't hold over from session to session. Whichever session I closed last is how it all starts up again.

Otherwise, I have no issues with this proposal at all.


The solution there is to setup each client that you want at a different resolution / graphical settings with it's own hard-link path. That way EVE stores the settings in different locations for each client.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Multiple_clients#Method_1_-_Junctions

Basically, one hard-link for the 1024x768 client window, another for the 1400x900 window and a third for that 1920x1080 window.
Endeavour Starfleet
#178 - 2013-03-13 23:50:17 UTC
The launcher should do that for you in my opinion.
The Groundskeeper
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#179 - 2013-03-14 08:40:51 UTC
Kronanius wrote:
My problem lies with something mentioned earlier called the "Pando Media Booster". Getting that product running under WINE is a gigantic nightmare.
~Kronanius


I didn't spot that Pando was being considered. If it's that dross then definitely count me out.
Hosedna
FumbleFamily Corp
#180 - 2013-03-14 09:44:52 UTC
BigDaddyMcFatSacks wrote:
Phext wrote:
BigDaddyMcFatSacks wrote:

1) Security. IP being able to be known by others


Not an issue at all. Generally speaking, without the other side knowing your IP, the Net would be a boring place...


I think you misunderstand. As stated a few posts above someone could find out your ip thru P2P and then flood you rendering your connection basically useless. Maybe that is extreme, but it is certainly an issue.


You know, if you have absolutely no knowledge of how a network works and network security, you just shouldn't speak of it. Otherwise you appear as a superstitious medieval peasant speaking of technology...