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New dev blog: Capital ship balancing

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ANGAL 2000
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2381 - 2011-10-28 02:09:32 UTC

Quote:
Dude its 2am in Iceland, maybe just MAYBE they have gone to bed?!! I mean they do work a 9-5 job


granted this thread was made close to 3 weeks ago but after the first 4 days it has been left without any word from anyone at ccp
time zone is not a issue for that amount of time and it shows the lack of commitment to the players.
ANGAL 2000
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2382 - 2011-10-28 02:39:01 UTC
Quote:
Sub-capitals are useless in fleet fights.

i think this is very Harsh , there is no useless ship in eve , every ship has its role and depends on how they are used.
maybe its not the ships but the people flying them, i have met the best of the pilots, Awsome in a vaga put them in a BS and they are just a number a drone.

Maybe the correct Fleet Make-up hasn't been implemented yet, there is a counterable fleet for any Fleet in the game they call


its not like in the last 24h 5 super carrier have fallen some to the hands of sub caps and we will see how many this week will be killed.

ok point is sub caps are able to kill a super carrier even if its in a fleet with other no ship is safe even in a blob.
goon/init/AAA have shown this using only sub caps tailoring the game for pure sub caps to takeout any ship without having to risk anything is not the sandbox we have learned to love.

taking the steps to balance super carriers in a way that will leave them unable to defend them selves when moving from point to point is just a way to kill them off and bring eve to a level where sub cap fleets own the sky.

small vent
the true problem that have been in the face for years in the blob which in turn cos lag over the last year we have seen lag cut down so much but the blob have been seen to get bigger and bigger at times to the point their has been over 3300 in one system trying to fight (i was their and black screen for 2hours after DT back in march). We lost the aoe DD the blob got bigger will we ever see a time where ccp will act on this try and implement restrictions on the blob (answer no) its not in the sand box and i agree with it on part until the blob gets to the point we have 5000 in one system possible how about 10,000 i will let you think about it and how the system will act.
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2383 - 2011-10-28 08:33:00 UTC
super hornet wrote:
Supercapitals are too hard to kill.
shouldnt they be hard to kill after all, they are the 2nd best ship in the game

Not by metagaming (logging out). Thats something that spoils the otherwise reasonable ideas of something huge and difficult to kill.

Quote:

ahh the good old power beast *first the Dooms day killed every thing on grid
and now the Super weapon is too powerful * ironic hmmmmmmm
the last nerf on the highest tier Ship was catastrophic changed the whole Fleet way of battle those that had them had an advantage. I used to get a chill when i saw one, now i just go mehhh

Have you imagined one going off every minute? How would you go on attacking such a grid? Thats what BoB used to protect their cyno jammer once.. 10 titans iirc. HF attacking that with a subcap fleet. Numbers do matter.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
HELIC0N ONE
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2384 - 2011-10-28 09:47:48 UTC  |  Edited by: HELIC0N ONE
ANGAL 2000 wrote:

Quote:
Dude its 2am in Iceland, maybe just MAYBE they have gone to bed?!! I mean they do work a 9-5 job


granted this thread was made close to 3 weeks ago but after the first 4 days it has been left without any word from anyone at ccp
time zone is not a issue for that amount of time and it shows the lack of commitment to the players.


Everything that needed to be said in this thread was covered in the first 5 or 6 pages.

Anything beyond that is just an echo, there's no point CCP taking time to respond to the same points over and over.

(having said that, never stop posting)
Charles Edisson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2385 - 2011-10-28 09:58:51 UTC
I wonder if a capital sized Smart bomb would be suitable compensation for the loss of the regular drones. and before I get flamed I'm not advocating it be anything like the doomsdaw was, it should be a similar step up in range and damage as the existing steps from small to medium and medium to large.
so something in the region of 13-16K range and 600-800 damage per burst with a cycle of 15-20 seconds. This would let supers deal with Dictors that they will have no counter to in current fleets but importantly leave HICs outside the damage range. HICs are disigned to tackle supers after all, Dictors were not.
HELIC0N ONE
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2386 - 2011-10-28 14:30:57 UTC
Charles Edisson wrote:
HICs are disigned to tackle supers after all, Dictors were not.


You realise that when supercaps lost their bubble immunity, Hictors hadn't even been introduced to the game yet?

Revelations II explicitly made regular Dictors the supercap-tackling hull.
Warrior Xena
Black Wormholes of Apocrypha
TOGETHER WE STAND
#2387 - 2011-10-28 15:10:16 UTC
I do not think that supercaps are too powerful. They are the biggest ships in the game and the most expensive. It is not normal to have a supercapital defenseless against a destroyer-size vessel, the same way that a real-life carrier cannot be stopped dead by a boat with a hook. Forcing a 15km-ship to kill a single interdictor ( 90m across ) with a doomsday device in order to leave is an idea stupid enough, removing even that possibility and it is well beyond belief.
Shadowsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2388 - 2011-10-28 20:41:38 UTC
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
Charles Edisson wrote:
HICs are disigned to tackle supers after all, Dictors were not.


You realise that when supercaps lost their bubble immunity, Hictors hadn't even been introduced to the game yet?

Revelations II explicitly made regular Dictors the supercap-tackling hull.


To be more precise, HICs were introduced in a large part because it was relatively easy for supercaps to get out of dictor bubbles by using their officer smartbombs.
Will DestroyYou
#2389 - 2011-10-28 22:17:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Will DestroyYou
Just a random idea. A possible fair way to balance out these changes...

Proposition:
Why not create a new FOF style high-slot mod that gives limited auto (subcap) defence to caps (sort of like automated battlestar flak turrets)?

How they would work:
Either one for dread size caps, another for supers, and another for titans - or just a single cap size one for all that shoots a group of BS guns. They could provide a short range blanket of fire around the vessels (and serve as a replacement for smartbombs and drones on these classes of cap ships as well). They can not be manually targetted, so are only a limited defensive weapon.

This would provide a limited defence to all classes of caps vs sub-caps (except carriers, they are fine as is)... They should also generate little lag.

Hell, why not do a version of multi-turret FOF mods for all weapon types on all (medium+) turret sizes?

(each works like a group of the smallest version of the weapon size below - eg: medium laser ver gives a group of small gattling and dual light beam turrets - say 3 + 3 - the 2 types of turrets could fire independently of eachother at indipendant targets if they exist). Note: they would only shoot ships (and possibly missiles/bombs), not structures.

Limit to 1 module (group of turrets) per ship and takes up a turret high slot.

A capital class ship *could* choose any size group to fit, they are not limited to the capital size - so they can customize who they want defence against. (also possibility to make the capital size ones be a group of varied size turrets?)

They would shoot based on standings (0 standings and below), but only when the module is online - so you can still use neut cyno alts.

This could be a creative replacement for the laggy drones, and smartbombs; and make up for the changes to SC's and DD's defences somewhat - so they have some defence, but not at the original levels vs subcaps. It is even possible that the spread fire from them could even make active tanking viable again in PVP.

In the future, it could maybe be even made possible to shoot the turrets on the cap sized versions. The technology could maybe then even be expanded to work on player outposts, TCU's, structures in some new missions/anoms/plexes, and other future structures.

.. just a thought ..
Don Kartel
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2390 - 2011-10-29 13:38:10 UTC
Can the Dev's explain How bubbling a super within a POS is going to affect the aggression timers of supers after the changes?

My fear is this new aggression timer mechanic will result in another ECM Burst style exploit that the likes of PL love to take advantage of.

e.g. Super is in POS and gets bubbled - this prevents them leaving the POS under current machanics but does that also mean they are aggressed ? And if they log off will it mean they will remain aggressed and on grid while bubbled in that POS ?
Space Ra
Blapnetar
#2391 - 2011-10-29 15:46:35 UTC
Lucky I don't fly a moros, whit rate of fire bonus there gone be even more cap hungry, it’s like dropping a low slot...
And if you chance capacitor leves, that would mean extra tanking.

For a mother ship/super carrier (master of drones) it will be a bit odd if they won't master most drones any more.

And better stop training for t2 drones if you just gone fly dread/super/titan. What a waste of skill training for so many...
Shadowsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2392 - 2011-10-29 19:32:49 UTC
Space Ra wrote:
Lucky I don't fly a moros, whit rate of fire bonus there gone be even more cap hungry, it’s like dropping a low slot...
And if you chance capacitor leves, that would mean extra tanking.

For a mother ship/super carrier (master of drones) it will be a bit odd if they won't master most drones any more.

And better stop training for t2 drones if you just gone fly dread/super/titan. What a waste of skill training for so many...


Haven't you looked at the hybrid changes? Their cap usage is cut by a good 40%.
HELIC0N ONE
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2393 - 2011-10-29 22:26:35 UTC
Don Kartel wrote:
e.g. Super is in POS and gets bubbled - this prevents them leaving the POS under current machanics but does that also mean they are aggressed ? And if they log off will it mean they will remain aggressed and on grid while bubbled in that POS ?


A bubble only aggresses you if you attempt to warp whilst inside it. Logging off without first hitting warp means you vanish after 2 minutes.
MacGardner
Dubai Space Falcons
#2394 - 2011-10-30 20:00:21 UTC
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
[A bubble only aggresses you if you attempt to warp whilst inside it.


What if the bubble starts after you hit "warp" but you were still aligning ?

Warrior Xena wrote:
It is not normal to have a supercapital defenseless against a destroyer-size vessel,.



I agree. Any ship in eve has the possibility to counteract the action of any other ship, either by having a couter-act module or by being able to engage and fight that ship. By making the supercaps unable to engage HICs it is a very big UNBALANCING.

How about making the supercaps immune to all current forms of interdiction ( bubbles included ) and invent a CAPITAL module that will allow only a CAPITAL ship to tackle a supercap ?
Jasperexty
Apple Industries Inc.
#2395 - 2011-10-31 00:02:23 UTC
can u make a fighter to mine then? since because of future nerfs of SC i cant mine in a nyx anymore
Naughty Fox
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2396 - 2011-11-01 14:53:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Naughty Fox
FHM wrote:
wanking monkey girl wrote:
ask ccp why titans where added to the game
their is fenfest vid from when they where shown and added about their main use in eve to be a flying epeen for us all to enjoy.

FHM YOU MAD BRO


Exactly a non cost effective big D I C K. ...useless for anything other than moving an alliance fleet from A to B. Thats why they were so-pose to be rare.

I really dont care they stated their final decision on nerfs because voice of 99% of game population is stronger than 1%. In the end i gain nothing either way.


There are alot of noobs appluading the overall fail winter patch notes, but this guy FHM really does take the biscuit,blind deaf dumb ********,spastic.....shall I go on doesn't quite cut what this guy is.I just LOL&LOL@him

He says 99% of eve want this,well hes' extreamly wrong, any1 with a brain an some sence doesn't want whats been introduced through the winter patch notes in the game. Evident to say a huge majority say its total Bull$hit, & these are the vets & people who care for EVE community, not just for themselves.
HELIC0N ONE
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2397 - 2011-11-01 16:33:41 UTC
Naughty Fox wrote:
Evident to say a huge majority say its total Bull$hit, & these are the vets & people who care for EVE community, not just for themselves.


Outside of your Elite Pee Vee Peer echo chamber, most people are saying its long overdue and/or that it doesn't go far enough.

Anyway CCP have listened to the majority and are implementing the changes, feel free to quit and give me all your stuff.
Tore Vest
#2398 - 2011-11-01 17:20:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tore Vest
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
Naughty Fox wrote:
Evident to say a huge majority say its total Bull$hit, & these are the vets & people who care for EVE community, not just for themselves.


Outside of your Elite Pee Vee Peer echo chamber, most people are saying its long overdue and/or that it doesn't go far enough.

Anyway CCP have listened to the majority and are implementing the changes, feel free to quit and give me all your stuff.


What majority ?
Those 1% whining on eve forum ?

Edit: Dont talk about mittens and co

No troll.
Xhondo Dhoru
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2399 - 2011-11-02 16:42:36 UTC
Changes are going to make the blob worse and the cry for nerf louder.
Everyone with half a brain can already see this coming.
Whatever.

Can we get an update on minmatar capital changes please.
Take silly torp launchers off the nag, give guns a damage boost to compensate.
(or give it a neut bonus or something cool, idk)

Give shield capitals (specifically: wyvern, hel) a shield hp increase, make them a bit more in line with the armor tanks.
From what I am seeing with new stats, the hel is basically a shield tanked archon with more dps. That is silly.
Brandon Tsero
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2400 - 2011-11-03 05:03:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Brandon Tsero
Super-carriers should honestly be able to carry 20 stealth bombers, 20 fighters, and at least have 5000 drone bay left to work with small anti sub-cap drones. Make them able to fight back in a Super vs. 100 sub cap fleet then be totally useless(maybe limit it to 10 drones(non fighter/fighter bomber), or give the Super a fighter tracking bonus? Making the super-carrier a sitting duck isn't the answerIdea, people will stop using themRoll. Dumbing them down, yes. The other changes are 100% great.