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POS's Flogging the Dead Horse

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Leskit
Pure Victory
#201 - 2013-03-02 01:27:17 UTC
Ciar Meara wrote:
Updated POS by Evilgrivion, basicly the sum of the parts of the years of discussion:

Here it is: [EDIT]: I remember that In another iteration everything of the POS was placed on the bottom as low as possible to allow for more movement of ships and capitals without being bumped by everything. But this summary should do:

Evelgrivion wrote:
[edit]Edited by: Evelgrivion on 04/11/2009 14:37:42[/edit]
For the past three years, there has been a tremendous show of support for the old “Flogging the Dead Horse” post regarding a proposed re-design of the Player Owned Structure system. The two biggest reasons for support are that players hate what they look like – a bunch of scrap floating in space, and they hate the interfaces that are used to interact with them on a daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly basis.

Enter the Modular Starbase

Aesthetically, people want to see an end to the era of junk floating inside and in the immediate vicinity of force field bubbles. A series of geometrically interconnected structures, such as squares or hexagons, make up the design of the proposed replacement system. The abilities of the facility are enhanced with each newly attached component. Weapons would be placed on extensions to the top and bottom or even the sides of the tower, emerging from the force field. These weapons systems would remain vulnerable to attack like they are today.


I like this idea quite a lot. I've lived in a wormhole for over 2 years, and the most annoying thing about it is the POS system. I've heard that the pos bubble is a particularly nasty piece of code and CCP really wants to get rid of it, but living in a wh, it's something that I find is actually essential. Being able to do things as beneign as fleet alaign, look at our ships (orbiting the pos with a MWD is our version of ship spinning), bump each other when bored, and look at our ship and the space that we live in is something that I see as tied to living in a WH.

Living in a wh, information is the single most important thing, and the current pos setup (read: seeing ships in the bubble and not being able to dock) is great for gathering information. I'd hate to see the day when docking games enter into WH life. I love the modularity of this idea, and hopefully the modularity will help with pos security and role dilineation. A pos upgrade would probably be the single biggest thing you could do to improve WH life. I think pos thefts should be a result of weaseling your way into a corp and getting roles, not because we have to lump access to things together like some mutilated tool.

Also, fuel use based on the # of modules would be great too.
Cealis Naarker
Legitimate Business Syndicate
#202 - 2013-03-05 11:09:39 UTC
Please make this come true!

Pretty please, with sugar on top, revamp the [redacted] POS-system!
Remnant Madeveda
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#203 - 2013-03-05 12:18:59 UTC
"Soundwave commented, the POS system itself would only affect a small portion of the community..." from the CSM minutes. I'd like to check into this thread stating this small portion of the community for more years than I've been playing is still waiting Soundwave. The POS system affects anyone who lives in WH's, Null, and anyone who likes the idea of doing industry. You should really consider that more people are affected by POS's than I believe your metrics to indicate.

I'm a newish character, living in Null, and I support POS changes for everyone.
Banana1x
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#204 - 2013-03-07 02:09:18 UTC
Just came across this. Such a clever and expansive idea.

+1
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#205 - 2013-03-07 14:39:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Carniflex
I remember supporting this thread back in 2006 (post 97 in the original thread and many many after that) up through years thereafter in the old forums. When the old forums went down it was the single thread I regretted most of losing.

It has been close to 7 years now, CCP. Perhaps it would be a time to let the poor hore rest a bit? eh ? So coould you please take, for example, the group working on walking in stations and put em to work on this thing until its done.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#206 - 2013-03-07 16:39:34 UTC
Since the concept of "anchor anywhere" has been broached, what would appropriate anchoring rules be for these beasties?

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#207 - 2013-03-07 17:19:28 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Since the concept of "anchor anywhere" has been broached, what would appropriate anchoring rules be for these beasties?

1) Not near an NPC station or stargate, say at least 1000 km away.
2) Some other keep out distances from moons, customs offices and planets.
3) Not to near each other
4) Only the smaller sizes in high sec, (up to about a large POS) and the largest size can only be in player held space.
5) The current standing based requirement is a pain. You essentially buy a corp with the standings, put up the structure, then invite your members. If you want to do another structure, you kick everyone but a no-standings CEO and a "shill" member who has standings. This sort of meta-gaming is not nourishing game play. I propose you just pay a one time anchoring fee to the NPCs, maybe reduce-able with standings.

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Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#208 - 2013-03-07 18:17:24 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:

1) Not near an NPC station or stargate, say at least 1000 km away.
2) Some other keep out distances from moons, customs offices and planets.
3) Not to near each other

One of the CCP devs mentioned a vision of effectively "villages" of these. That implies a clearance of some tens of km but not more than that.

Combined with some heavy grid-fu that could lead to some interesting (and possibly server-breaking) results.
Vincent Athena wrote:

4) Only the smaller sizes in high sec, (up to about a large POS) and the largest size can only be in player held space.
5) The current standing based requirement is a pain. You essentially buy a corp with the standings, put up the structure, then invite your members. If you want to do another structure, you kick everyone but a no-standings CEO and a "shill" member who has standings. This sort of meta-gaming is not nourishing game play. I propose you just pay a one time anchoring fee to the NPCs, maybe reduce-able with standings.

The standing based requirement is a pain, but it does put a rather effective brake on planting POSes in 0.7 systems since the normal procedure is to only have one cycle of tower planting for a corp due to the immense pain involved in replanting.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#209 - 2013-03-11 22:46:28 UTC
+1 for the dead horse/POS

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#210 - 2013-03-12 01:59:42 UTC
I'm definately not one to let a good horse flogging pass me by so here's my +1 Lol

Despite my concerns over moving high-sec industry to player-owned structures, I too am fascinated by the idea of the modular POS. In fact, I think maybe interlocking several of these together could become the future of starbases. There would have to be a set number able to be added to a single structure, (or would they?) but in a modular system we are only limited by our own imagination. Instead of a single modular POS, if a corp attached all their anchor-anywhere POS's together, players could build modular cities. And that intrigues me. Does the future hold player-run casinos, brothels, and merchant shops? Under the current system, it's not really feasible as your investment can be taken down by just about anyone. The average high sec resident may wonder who wants to live permanently in a POS if you can lose all your stuff at any time? But if multiple POS's were anchored together in a giant space cityscape, amplifying their ehp, and thus their relative safety, the idea moves into the realm of possibility. I think even risk-averse industialists would be more likely to inhabit such a dwelling. And just imagine shopping at a massive player-built city anchored above a red giant star. If WiS ever becomes reality, would you dock in that city - spending all your isk on poker, booze and hookers? Or dock there to assassinate someone else who is playing poker with a hooker? Fun ideas to play with ffs. But if this were made reality, I'd like to see cities able to be attacked without warning in exchange for their massive ehp.

Attention citizens! Evacutate New Mos Eisley! This is not a drill.

Sounds like fun.

YK

Oh, and I totally enjoyed the shield impact effects and flaming ship demonstration in the link provided by CCP Phantom earlier in the thread. Very, very cool!
Angelic Resolution
The Arcanum
#211 - 2013-03-12 13:53:39 UTC
Bump!

+1 for POStarbase/Outpost Industry to rival/be on par with Stations.

Labs are better, why not refineries etc?
KiithSoban
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#212 - 2013-03-12 16:03:02 UTC
+1

I want to see logi appear on killmails! (by just repping)  See CSM "reasonable things"
Metellus Titurius
Lone Sword Production
#213 - 2013-03-12 16:14:59 UTC
Angelic Resolution wrote:
Bump!

+1 for POStarbase/Outpost Industry to rival/be on par with Stations.

Labs are better, why not refineries etc?


Because cost. That's why. Stations eggs are billions and billions of isk to purchase, not to mention you need to titan bridge a freighter out to where you need to deliver it just to set it up (without the staggering amount of risk of jumping a station egg through gates in null sec). POS's are meant to be small outposts not something that makes stations irrelevant.

The modular idea definitely gets a +1 but all this nonsense on making the POS's as good as stations is ridiculous.
Infinite Force
#214 - 2013-03-12 17:51:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinite Force
okay .. deleted .. seems i can't read today.

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Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#215 - 2013-03-26 20:14:51 UTC
CSM candidates are out and looking for votes. The only CSM candidate who campaigned on fixing the POS is Nicholas Becker. http://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/candidate?id=1212008

Unless I missed something, it seems voting for Nicholas Becker is the best candidate we can endorse to get the pos issue resolved before I get too old for this.

If anyone else sees another candidate making promises about pushing the pos issue, please feel free to add them, but until then, I am behind CSM candidate Nicholas Becker.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#216 - 2013-03-26 20:18:47 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
CSM candidates are out and looking for votes. The only CSM candidate who campaigned on fixing the POS is Nicholas Becker. http://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/candidate?id=1212008

Unless I missed something, it seems voting for Nicholas Becker is the best candidate we can endorse to get the pos issue resolved before I get too old for this.

If anyone else sees another candidate making promises about pushing the pos issue, please feel free to add them, but until then, I am behind CSM candidate Nicholas Becker.

Or you can just wait till this winter when the POS changes will be taking place.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#217 - 2013-03-26 20:27:27 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Andy Landen wrote:
CSM candidates are out and looking for votes. The only CSM candidate who campaigned on fixing the POS is Nicholas Becker. http://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/candidate?id=1212008

Unless I missed something, it seems voting for Nicholas Becker is the best candidate we can endorse to get the pos issue resolved before I get too old for this.

If anyone else sees another candidate making promises about pushing the pos issue, please feel free to add them, but until then, I am behind CSM candidate Nicholas Becker.

Or you can just wait till this winter when the POS changes will be taking place.


Please link that article. They promised big changes last Spring (about March 2012) and here we are today with nothing but an uninformed comment (last December-ish) about few people caring about poses.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Grigori Annunaki
#218 - 2013-03-26 20:36:11 UTC
As part of the Odyssey teaser page:

Quote:
Continued development towards raising accessibility without removing functionality will bring dozens of changes to player-owned starbases, game UI and beyond.

Looks like we'll be getting something this summer. Who knows how far it'll go to fix things, but I'm anxiously waiting for the first devblog.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#219 - 2013-03-26 21:32:30 UTC
Odyssey teaser page:

Quote:
.. will bring dozens of changes to player-owned starbases, game UI and beyond.


great. maybe we'll get fireworks and snowballs for poses too. a whoo hoo [circles finger up in the air] yeah. We need CSM pushing this! Vote Nicholas Becker

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Anthar Thebess
#220 - 2013-03-27 14:54:16 UTC
Remove the current pos size.
Let separate modules add simply to pos running price.
( of course with some limitations)
Why i cannot have one pos with (for example) 20 laboratories - that is consuming fuel like 10 normal poses that i need currently.

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