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New dev blog: Ship-troduction: The Minmatar Tornado

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Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#461 - 2011-10-26 04:42:52 UTC
Gods Coldblood wrote:
I dunno about you guys but faction battlecruisers sounds pretty sweet to me, if only..




This is what I was thinking myself too. Why always jump to well lets just give Battle Ship Weapons to smaller faster ships when you can add in Faction Battlecruisers.Big smile

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
CybrKnyf
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#462 - 2011-10-26 04:53:50 UTC  |  Edited by: CybrKnyf
I think a solution to the reduction of PVP and Manufacturing would be to require ALL cloaks to use Stront as fuel... Calculating the average cloak-time ability by adjusting stront usage per minute cloaked so that you could stay cloaked for only about an hour before running out of stront. An hour gives a cloaky ship plenty of time to actually DO something (scout, recon, cyno, make bookmarks, etc.) but doesn't fully stop a corp or alliance from making isk or require a miner or ratter to have a support fleet present at all times.

Think about it - This would increase PVP engagements as well as give the miners a little breathing room so that a red couldn't come into your system and just cloak-up and go AFK for days on end. This type of 'hostile action' only slows production of ships as well as burdening players who may be relatively new to nullsec operations. If you want to engage in tactics that reduce the isk income of a corp or alliance, there are better and more effective ways - namely those that lead to more ships needing to be built and more PVP.

If this game is to be about PVP and the struggle to succeed, then go for it...i'm all for it. I enjoy both winning and losing at PVP and that is the primary attraction to this game. Nobody I know that plays the game really enjoys it when you have a cloaked red in your systems for extended periods. Isn't this game supposed to be about having fun while playing? I know a load of you will call this whining, but the truth is that it only frustrates players and slows the burn of the economy.
Darod Zyree
Doomheim
#463 - 2011-10-26 06:16:40 UTC
CCP Konflikt wrote:
Just going to chime in here, these stats are a 1st pass taken from a chaos build, it hasn't been balanced in any sense and it's going to change before they go out to TQ.

There will be a dev-blog with final stats before they hit TQ.



What ever, deploy the changes, let chaos happen, and take my money as I re-sub all my accounts :D
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#464 - 2011-10-26 07:13:32 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
CCP Konflikt wrote:
Just going to chime in here, these stats are a 1st pass taken from a chaos build, it hasn't been balanced in any sense and it's going to change before they go out to TQ.

There will be a dev-blog with final stats before they hit TQ.


Aren't you supposed to make a blog before they hit SiSi? Sounds suspicious.


This is what I thought too. How are we supposed to test the changes and provide meaningful feedback if we don't know what we are testing?

As for the ships - huge dps, paper thin tanks, low speed and agility, no drones - can anyone think of a use for them APART from high sec ganking?
Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#465 - 2011-10-26 07:21:17 UTC
Imryn Xaran wrote:

As for the ships - huge dps, paper thin tanks, low speed and agility, no drones - can anyone think of a use for them APART from high sec ganking?


Pos Bashing
TCU Bashing
Killing Supers
Killing Carriers
a.s.o....

btw: low speed and agility? Hurricane: 165 / Tornado 225.0 (current stat)

DISSONANCE is recruiting Members: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=706442#post706442 Black-Mark Alliance Recruitment: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6710
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#466 - 2011-10-26 07:33:59 UTC
Neo Agricola wrote:
Imryn Xaran wrote:

As for the ships - huge dps, paper thin tanks, low speed and agility, no drones - can anyone think of a use for them APART from high sec ganking?


Pos Bashing
TCU Bashing
Killing Supers
Killing Carriers
a.s.o....

btw: low speed and agility? Hurricane: 165 / Tornado 225.0 (current stat)


I think current BS do all of those things as well or better, and provide much better survivability and utility when the sh1t hits the fan.

Personally, I am training for Destroyers V, not BC V, and stocking up on Thrashers.
Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#467 - 2011-10-26 07:43:13 UTC
Imryn Xaran wrote:
Neo Agricola wrote:
Imryn Xaran wrote:

As for the ships - huge dps, paper thin tanks, low speed and agility, no drones - can anyone think of a use for them APART from high sec ganking?


Pos Bashing
TCU Bashing
Killing Supers
Killing Carriers
a.s.o....

btw: low speed and agility? Hurricane: 165 / Tornado 225.0 (current stat)


I think current BS do all of those things as well or better, and provide much better survivability and utility when the **** hits the fan.

Personally, I am training for Destroyers V, not BC V, and stocking up on Thrashers.


They are desinged for a "Hit and run" concept. so when the **** hits the fan, you should be long gone.

but lets discuss that, when we know the real stats. and again 5 month after that. than we will see, if they are used for anything else apart from High sec ganging. (BTW: WTS Tengu T2 fitted. when those BC hit Trianquiliti those High sec gankers will kill Tengus just for the LOLs)

DISSONANCE is recruiting Members: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=706442#post706442 Black-Mark Alliance Recruitment: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6710
Kmelx
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#468 - 2011-10-26 08:11:05 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
CCP Konflikt wrote:
stuff.



Jesus, CCP Kornflake using monocles !!

Go get em !


That's some pro trolling of the community Blink
Nahnil
Zawa's Fan Club
#469 - 2011-10-26 09:11:13 UTC
Kalmanaka wrote:
The base tank of these new bc's is about halfway between a cruiser and the tier 1 bc. They fill an entirely different role than the current BC's and must be flown in an entirely different way,



They will be used to kite, a groundbreaking new concept unheared of with current bcs.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#470 - 2011-10-26 13:11:56 UTC
Kmelx wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:
CCP Konflikt wrote:
stuff.



Jesus, CCP Kornflake using monocles !!

Go get em !


That's some pro trolling of the community Blink


First troll best troll Lol
Someone needed to initiate him to this wordefull game "Forums On Line"
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#471 - 2011-10-26 13:17:15 UTC
Neo Agricola wrote:
Imryn Xaran wrote:

As for the ships - huge dps, paper thin tanks, low speed and agility, no drones - can anyone think of a use for them APART from high sec ganking?


Pos Bashing
TCU Bashing
Killing Supers
Killing Carriers
a.s.o....

btw: low speed and agility? Hurricane: 165 / Tornado 225.0 (current stat)


The pro of station/gate hugging is still the gallente version, web bonus is an excellent improvement for gallente pilots who can find in fleets some serious job to do now -like protect the 60/80km +short range fellah's

Doesn't change the paper thin tank proper to those hulls and the armor speed drawbacks cumulated to such short range of blasters, stil slight improvement.
Kern Walzky
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#472 - 2011-10-26 13:17:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kern Walzky
cant see the need for theess BS Wannabe BC. a new role already owned by BC and low tier BS.

Why dont you just fix this broken game. Fix POS and Sovreignity etc. all this new **** we dont need...

BS wannabe BC. omg.. really?!? Ugh
Digital Gaidin
Manetheren Rising
#473 - 2011-10-26 15:28:38 UTC
What the hell is with all this bitching?

These ships look awesome, and there are many of us who are excited to see what the remaining 3 are going to look like. These ships are likely going to pack *near* BS firepower, be *near* their price, but be flimsier and faster. I've been around long enough to know that whatever CCP releases causes some to irrevicably feel the need to whine, *****, and moan... but seriously? This type of stuff is great, and if you can't get excited about this then what?

Calling it now, these ships end up with either Marauder style double weapon bonuses and 3 turrets, or normal 6 turret setups. Minmatar will probably be a split weapon system. Caldari is a toss up between another gun platform or a missile platform, though a high end Railgun platform with the new changes might be interesting (a pocket Rohk maybe?). At least one will probably be min/maxed to have some crazy tank and at least 2 of them will likely be generally ignored by the masses due to inherent weaknesses in the tank. Odds are, they will relatively invalidate current Tier 2 BC's for all but throw-away setups, but not stand up to properly fit Battleships.

If you really are interested in getting these ships properly balanced, wouldn't the best way to be to log in to SiSi when these ships go up, grab some data, maybe analyze it a little, and then provide feedback to CCP in a clean, non-emo manner? I know everyone has their emo button stuck lately, but isn't the time to rage when an inbalanced feature is planning to LEAVE SiSi and go live, not when it goes ONTO SiSi for initial testing?
Phantomania
Lonely Trek
#474 - 2011-10-26 15:47:56 UTC
Digital Gaidin wrote:
What the hell is with all this bitching?

These ships look awesome, and there are many of us who are excited to see what the remaining 3 are going to look like. These ships are likely going to pack *near* BS firepower, be *near* their price, but be flimsier and faster. I've been around long enough to know that whatever CCP releases causes some to irrevicably feel the need to whine, *****, and moan... but seriously? This type of stuff is great, and if you can't get excited about this then what?

Calling it now, these ships end up with either Marauder style double weapon bonuses and 3 turrets, or normal 6 turret setups. Minmatar will probably be a split weapon system. Caldari is a toss up between another gun platform or a missile platform, though a high end Railgun platform with the new changes might be interesting (a pocket Rohk maybe?). At least one will probably be min/maxed to have some crazy tank and at least 2 of them will likely be generally ignored by the masses due to inherent weaknesses in the tank. Odds are, they will relatively invalidate current Tier 2 BC's for all but throw-away setups, but not stand up to properly fit Battleships.

If you really are interested in getting these ships properly balanced, wouldn't the best way to be to log in to SiSi when these ships go up, grab some data, maybe analyze it a little, and then provide feedback to CCP in a clean, non-emo manner? I know everyone has their emo button stuck lately, but isn't the time to rage when an inbalanced feature is planning to LEAVE SiSi and go live, not when it goes ONTO SiSi for initial testing?




If your interested, this is the latest clue to what looks like the New Gallente BC "Talos" ! "
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#475 - 2011-10-26 16:14:31 UTC
Quote:

Calling it now, these ships end up with either Marauder style double weapon bonuses and 3 turrets, or normal 6 turret setups. Minmatar will probably be a split weapon system. Caldari is a toss up between another gun platform or a missile platform, though a high end Railgun platform with the new changes might be interesting (a pocket Rohk maybe?)


You really need to read back a few pages.
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#476 - 2011-10-26 16:17:10 UTC
Digital Gaidin wrote:
What the hell is with all this bitching?

These ships look awesome, and there are many of us who are excited to see what the remaining 3 are going to look like. These ships are likely going to pack *near* BS firepower, be *near* their price, but be flimsier and faster. I've been around long enough to know that whatever CCP releases causes some to irrevicably feel the need to whine, *****, and moan... but seriously? This type of stuff is great, and if you can't get excited about this then what?

Calling it now, these ships end up with either Marauder style double weapon bonuses and 3 turrets, or normal 6 turret setups. Minmatar will probably be a split weapon system. Caldari is a toss up between another gun platform or a missile platform, though a high end Railgun platform with the new changes might be interesting (a pocket Rohk maybe?). At least one will probably be min/maxed to have some crazy tank and at least 2 of them will likely be generally ignored by the masses due to inherent weaknesses in the tank. Odds are, they will relatively invalidate current Tier 2 BC's for all but throw-away setups, but not stand up to properly fit Battleships.

If you really are interested in getting these ships properly balanced, wouldn't the best way to be to log in to SiSi when these ships go up, grab some data, maybe analyze it a little, and then provide feedback to CCP in a clean, non-emo manner? I know everyone has their emo button stuck lately, but isn't the time to rage when an inbalanced feature is planning to LEAVE SiSi and go live, not when it goes ONTO SiSi for initial testing?


In the current SISI client they are all set up to have 8 highs with hardpoints for 8 weapons and bonused to allow a full set of large turrets (or siege launchers for the naga, which has dual bonuses for large hybrids as well). I expect that this configuration won't survive to get to TQ, but at the moment there is no "nearly" about the firepower; it is equal to a T3 BS and far superior to the T1 & 2 BS's. As for "flimsier and faster", yes and hell yes. As someone pointed out to me the Tornado is over 40% faster than a Hurricane.

I agree that it's early days, but speculation is fun yes?
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#477 - 2011-10-26 16:30:36 UTC
Neo Agricola wrote:
Imryn Xaran wrote:
Neo Agricola wrote:
Imryn Xaran wrote:

As for the ships - huge dps, paper thin tanks, low speed and agility, no drones - can anyone think of a use for them APART from high sec ganking?


Pos Bashing
TCU Bashing
Killing Supers
Killing Carriers
a.s.o....

btw: low speed and agility? Hurricane: 165 / Tornado 225.0 (current stat)


I think current BS do all of those things as well or better, and provide much better survivability and utility when the **** hits the fan.

Personally, I am training for Destroyers V, not BC V, and stocking up on Thrashers.


They are desinged for a "Hit and run" concept. so when the **** hits the fan, you should be long gone.

but lets discuss that, when we know the real stats. and again 5 month after that. than we will see, if they are used for anything else apart from High sec ganging. (BTW: WTS Tengu T2 fitted. when those BC hit Trianquiliti those High sec gankers will kill Tengus just for the LOLs)


I see what you are saying about hit and run - the real world BC's were supposed to outgun anything that could catch them and be faster than anything that outgunned them. The problem is that the concept of "outgunning" in the real world does not translate to EVE. In EVE a large turret (or a torpedo) shooting at a cruiser sized hull is at a disadvantage that a real world 15" naval gun firing at a cruiser just does not experience. A T2 fit HAML Tengu will orbit at 20km and laugh at the pitiful amount of dps you can apply to him in the short time it takes him to tear through your pitiful tank.

I do like the idea of them being Cap killers - fast enough to give capital guns big tracking problems, enough dps to get the job done, and cheap enough so you don't mind losing a few.
Phantomania
Lonely Trek
#478 - 2011-10-26 16:55:16 UTC

So can we also look forward to BattleShips that carry capital weapons??? Ugh
JackStraw56
Run Like an Antelope
#479 - 2011-10-26 17:17:58 UTC
This is the type of work CCP devs need to be doing, +1 for the readjustment of priorities :)
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#480 - 2011-10-26 20:06:10 UTC
Just been looking through that change file for SISI and I noticed something - the CPU and PG values for the new ships:

Oracle: CPU 370, PG 1375
Naga: CPU 470, PG 895
Talos: CPU 400, PG 1150
Tornado: CPU 350, PG 990

Am I reading it wrong? Those numbers (in particular the PG values) will probably make it impossible to fit 8 large turrets.

Have they really do this? Given them the potential for T3 BS levels of firepower and then taken it away by limiting the CPU and PG?

Someone please tell me I read it wrong