Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Itty mk3 with the align speed of a frig. Itty mk4 with the tank of a BS. Itty mk5 with half the cargo of a freighter... etc.

It was to mining barges.

Amarr and Minmatar industrials don't really have any problems with tiericide; Caldari and Gallente do, because of their naming conventions: Marks are synonym with progressive improvement.

This seems to be something that could be done relatively quickly - tweak each hauler to be good agility, good cargo or good EHP. The only sticking point then is the 5 different Iterons and how to differentiate between all of them.

Yes but industrials pretty much just haul. Honestly I never understood why there were so many to begin with.

Take the freighter as an example. When you get to freighters, there is just one. All the skill does is make that freighter be able to haul more etc.

I never really got why there isn't just one T1 industrial as well. Do we really need an Iteron 1-5? Or just an Iteron, where the cargo scales the same as you train the skill.

Also the entire concept of Tiers is different.

For example, take battlecruisers. AT BC2 you unlock all of the battlecruisers you can fly (within your race etc). So at that point you are simpy picking the BC based on how it performs, right now by Tiers, and soon by roles.

Similar with barges, you unlock all mining barges at Mining Barge 1. So it makes sense then you will be picking the barge by role.

Industrial skills dont work that way. Gallente Industrial 1 or 2 doesnt unlock an Itty 5, or 4 or 3 for that matter.

Lastly, unlike most skills, there is no compelling reason to max out your industrial skill. If you are a miner you will want o make your mining barge work to its fullest, so you will want to train that skill up. If you fly battlecruisers, you will want to also train that up as high as possible.

Industrials on the other hand are only as needed. As an example, this toon of mine is mostly combat oriented. I did train up gallente industrial, but only to 2. The only need I have is to haul mission loot to a hub, and for that need an itty 2 is plenty big. So I have no need to train it any higher.

I think it would be great if CCP can figure out cool new roles for industrials. I'm not holding my breath though.



Way to completely ignore everything i wrote however. The "Tier" system as is stands now doesn't really apply the same way to the industrial class of ships.




Ugh. These are the kinds of replies that make one want to bash their head into their desk. Yea if you NEED a T2 industrial or freighter you max out your racial skill. No S**T Sherlock. But that wasn't my point.

Pretty much anyone who flies a Battlecruiser would never leave the skill at level 1 or two and say, "well it performs good enough". But LOTS of people will leave their industrial skill at level 1 or 2 if the cargo capacity is "good enough" for their needs.

The other problem as I had mentioned is that with the current setup, Tiers and roles don't really work with industrials because there is no choice. What do I mean?

Almost every other T1 ship class I have tons of choices at low skill. For example, using Gallente as it is what I fly:

Gallente Frigate 1 unlocks ALL Tech 1 frigates.
Gallente Cruiser 1 unlocks ALL Tech 1 Cruisers
Battlecruisers 3 unlocks all Tech 1 Gallente BC's, including the Talos
Gallente Battleship 3 unlocks all Tech 1 Gallente BS
Mining Barge 1 unlocks all Tech 1 mining barges.

So with all the above ships, I can pick from all available ships based on their role (or tier if they haven't been balanced yet) with about 1 day of training for that class (on average each of these skills can be trained from 1-2 in about 24 hours once you meet the prerequisites).


BUT

I have to go to Gallente industrial 5 to unlock all of the Tech 1 industrials. It gets even worse if you look at all races.

Amarr only has 2 industrials (Bestower, Sigil), both of which only need amarr industrial 1 to unlock.
caldari only has 2 industrials (Badger Mk1 and 2) which need Caldari industrial 3 to unlock all
Minmatar has 3 industrials (Hoarder, Mammoth, Wreathe) which need Minmatar industrial to 4 to unlock all.

Roles aren't going to work until they first clean that mess up. There is no way they can give all 5 Iteron's varying role for example, if they also require you to train the skill to 5 just to be able to choose that ship.

Personally, its boring, but IMO I think they should just change all industrial classes to just 2 ships, and make them T1 counterparts to their T2 varieties. 1 faster and smaller, one larger and tankier. And be done with it. They both get unlocked at Racial industrial 1, and their bonuses scale so that they reach the same point at level 5 for cargo etc.

Simply having the haulers have an inverse relationship between EHP and Cargo Space would be a good start. An Itty 1 with very little cargo room, but high EHP and the itty 5 with high cargo space but low EHP. I believe that 2 of the gallente industrials can be eliminated (itty 2 and 4), and additional haulers added to amarr and caldari so that all races have 3. This way you can have a system similar to the mining barges. All haulers should then be accessable thru racial industrial level 1. All industrials would then get a 5% per skill level agility bonus, and each one would get a second boost based upon the role of that hauler like 2.5% ehp per level for the small cargo variation and 5% per level to cargo space per level for the large cargo spaced hauler.

Had more of the hopes of seeing the hulls involved for combat support roles, but it is too extreme for many. Likewise, I want to see more involvement of PI-consuming modules for the Industrials.

One main role I want to see is a decent PI-commodity vessel, so you have standard cargo bay but also a decently-spacious hold for P0 to whatever mats.

Other than that, the industrials really need a bumload more of HP. Even if they are paperthin and have not-so-great resists, their size and mass should clearly be more than that of a wet poodle frigate (yeah yeah, they have a bit more hp). Whatever, something has to be done there too, hopefully in a style like with the Barges' tiericide.

Tiericide is about getting rid of some old rulesets that were in the way for some ~x years, so let's not narrow down the possibility by trying to stick to shiddy old stuff. Old school + nostalgia of whatsoever is nice, but in the end its always "evolve or die".

Hauling stuff is very close to grinding isk. It has to be done, but it shouldn't become a pain.

I'm fine with additional mixed hauler / combat roles as niches. But a dedicated hauler needs flexibility in the first place to adapt to different situations while he's traveling through space over large distances and multiple stops.

Creating fixed roles for dedicated haulers will make hauling feel even more like a grind. Wouldn't be a good solution in my opinion.