Player Features and Ideas Discussion

While I don't fully agree that roles for industrials would increase the 'grind' factor, I see how it could.

I think the idea of a ratio of EHP and cargo space could work. And right now, the idea of skilling higher to get a bigger hauler goes against the whole point of tiericide. Something needs to change.

Some suitable roles could include dedicated cargo, (ore, pi, moon goo, etc...) speed/agility, (faster aligning over cargo capacity,) smuggler, (small scanproof cargohold, minimal tank,) robust hauler, (tank over capacity, raw ehp over resists too I imagine,) oversized general hauler or just a jack of all trades.

The important thing is not to step on the toes of the T2 variants. Making them redundant is ultimately self defeating. No cloaky bonuses, no warp core strength, (even if there is now T1 precedence...)

If dedicated cargo bays are deemed inappropriate, (although an ORE hauler should be available as a dedicated ore mover IMO,) then cans with specialised capacities should do the job and would allow even the humblest cargo runner to specialise of required.

Was to be a unique and flexible take on the roles.
Basically, industrial hulls would be cloned to a seperate class - introducing the "Vessel" term, to clearly differentiate it from standard ships like cruisers, BS etc.. Fittings would rely mostly on modules that consume some 1k or 2k etc of m³ as a fitting requirement. These would be alike subsystems, but only for industrials.
The ships would be beefy with raw HP, so while it may be easy to tackle, they would still be able to hold out for quite some time - nevertheless, they require fleet buddies. Keep the vessel alive, it'll help keep you alive as well as pewing on others.

But not to be misunderstood already, the player has the choice to fit his/her vessel with versatile things that are unique, making them quite unpredictable. This does not make any other ship or t2 obsolete (and that was not the plan to begin with).
There would be modules that could support alinging and warping faster, making slowboat for chubby ships faster - this of course would be balanced by "only one of x type and the cargo hold space requirements".
- and I want to see these hulls in space battles and not just as paper boats.

One major focus somewhat was also the use of PI-goods as ammo for special modules that also apply special debuffs/buffs.

There would be several things a player could fit it. Be it an AoE buffer/support, or taking along Large Turrets, and much more. It is too vague to explain here, but if you're interested, here's the thread.
It is a bit hard to read and understand though, and I had to focus more on explaining the itty bits as there was a frequent misunderstanding. Nonetheless, maybe it can spark better ideas. It was all around Industrial Tiericide as well as introducing something really "new" .

It is hard to grasp for those who only want to fly Vagabonds or whatever tactical kickass boat. This idea here is more for "strategic" purposes.
Sorry for thread hijacking but it's for a good purpose.

Yes, cloned hulls are not necessary actually. The reason why I suggested that was because many could not grasp the idea (for whatever reason) of the current industrial vessel also having access to modules and even participating in combat , so I just said "fine, industrials on the left, combat variant on the right". It would much easier of course to have the tiericide'd Industrial Ship be an industrial but could also be refitted to an actual combat vessel.


And yes, it is the modules that make the ship in this case. I did not go as far yet suggest the new basic bonuses.
However, there is one thing that supports the idea of cloning the hulls, namely having an industrial that has the designated bays for Ships (to help corp logistics transport stuff through hisec); PI (because there is no ship for this) and perhaps-perhaps Ore as well. On the other hand, this all could be regulated by the special modules. So if you want to transport ships, you'd fit this mutually exclusive module that designates your special cargo as ship/PI/ore.


The other thing is that the ships require other ship bonuses. This would interfere a lot with Industrial Ship specific bonuses that are likely to come with tiericide. I stumbled over that issue because it would have been some ~six bonuses and that is way too much for a ship that is actually intended to be T1. I do not want this as T2 just yet, even if certain things may be calling for it.

So it doesn't really matter of Badger gets cloned - or not. After all, there is the Rifter, there is the Wolf too, disregarding their Tech levels.

That's just one idea to get rolling.

Yes, it can come close to Command Ship, but it should actually do more a mixed role of ongrid buffer/booster - with SPECIAL buffs and not offgrid stuff. Indeed, modules define the ship here too.

A bit extensive but here are the PI-modules I mentioned: Other thread

One I was hoping more for was non-Command Ship bonuses. And as you proposed, Tracking Links/ECCM/Counter-Ewar are featured too. There are also modules suggested so that this "Aux Command Vessel" can lower Sig Resolution of turrets of those on the field, improving their to-Hit chances. Tie that with a few other small bonuses that the Command Ship doesn't have and it could get interesting.

However, there has to be something done about off-grid boosting on Command Ships/T3 -- but in this case, this ship is all about ongrid close/med range support buffs.

I also had the idea of a module that raises the RoF on missile launchers with FoF missiles to give tacklers a small scare. It comes with a FoF Expl Radius penalty and a FoF missile lifespan bonus so you can't really kill, but you're certainly going to be helpful on the field if lots of frigs are around.

Just to keep in mind:
As I said, these are to be solely for the Industrial Ship, because Command Ships are already powerful. They deal extreme dmg, can take for ages, can buff on/off grid etc etc.
These ships are to be the last to die on the field. They cannot kill anything really much on their own as they are cumbersome (depending on specific modules to counter that) but they will likely be destroyed as last and won't blow up the second you yellow box them.

TL;DR
I just want to see this hull in battle too. But not as it currently is.
And I don't want this big tiericide thing to end up like what happened with Rifter or Vigil -- or the upcoming Cyclone and other ships.

We hear "yay it has been tiericided" and it is rather obsolete now.

Yeah.

But somewhere, that is what I wanted to see for all ships. Stuff that for instance specific ones can use while others can't.

I'm mixed in emotions about the upcoming Cyclone. Missiles are a new route, but there is little to that specfic part as the rest of the to-be-tiericide'd portion of it. Current discussion is going rampart with wannabe Drake fits and the dreaded (yet plausible) demand for more DPS.
Here too, I wish there'd be more weapon systems or whatever modules so that the ship could define itself. But that's just me.