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Pulling the Plug on WiS

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Author
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#961 - 2013-01-19 13:38:07 UTC
Typherian wrote:
Star citizen is going to end up being another carebear paradise Star Trek online type failure. Any game with a PvP switch cannot compete with eve simple as that. Speaking of Star Trek it had wis and look how it turned out. If wis isn't PvP related its not worth it. PvP is what makes eve different not more carebear PvE stuff.


The game is just world of warcraft in space, it's just trash.

The Tears Must Flow

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#962 - 2013-01-19 14:07:40 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Typherian wrote:
Star citizen is going to end up being another carebear paradise Star Trek online type failure. Any game with a PvP switch cannot compete with eve simple as that. Speaking of Star Trek it had wis and look how it turned out. If wis isn't PvP related its not worth it. PvP is what makes eve different not more carebear PvE stuff.


The game is just world of warcraft in space, it's just trash.

another remark about a game that is still in development .
Why would any game developer make a game to be as EvE?
Would be a dumb idea to get those few away from EvE.

R.S.I2014

Irya Boone
The Scope
#963 - 2013-01-19 14:26:36 UTC
maybe because people like copy success eve is a success old game with a stable playerground.
So maybe the'll copy it and make it more like a park theme to resolve the only issue in eve Not being alone alone in the galaxy

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#964 - 2013-01-19 14:29:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Typherian wrote:
Star citizen is going to end up being another carebear paradise Star Trek online type failure. Any game with a PvP switch cannot compete with eve simple as that. Speaking of Star Trek it had wis and look how it turned out. If wis isn't PvP related its not worth it. PvP is what makes eve different not more carebear PvE stuff.


The game is just world of warcraft in space, it's just trash.

another remark about a game that is still in development .
Why would any game developer make a game to be as EvE?
Would be a dumb idea to get those few away from EvE.



I only enjoy sandbox mmo-rpg games, that game is a themepark mmo-rpg advertised as a sandbox game. So it is trash.

The Tears Must Flow

Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#965 - 2013-01-19 16:59:06 UTC
Competition will come in the form of an open-world sandbox experience. Whether it will be Star Citizen, Elite, Pathfinder Online or Everquest Next does not matter. Sooner or later one dev will get it right, and it will be a massive loss for EVE.

But as I said before. CCP still holds all the cards. They have the game already, they just need to expand it. They've got the time. Just need to stop exploring stupid sidepaths like console shooters and vampire games. Stuff like that cannot keep leeching on EVE developer and funding resource base much longer.

We are paying for them to keep EVE developing at a good pace. Frankly, I cannot say the last three expansions have been a good pace.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#966 - 2013-01-19 17:41:06 UTC
Thomas Gore wrote:
Competition will come in the form of an open-world sandbox experience. Whether it will be Star Citizen, Elite, Pathfinder Online or Everquest Next does not matter. Sooner or later one dev will get it right, and it will be a massive loss for EVE.

But as I said before. CCP still holds all the cards. They have the game already, they just need to expand it. They've got the time. Just need to stop exploring stupid sidepaths like console shooters and vampire games. Stuff like that cannot keep leeching on EVE developer and funding resource base much longer.

We are paying for them to keep EVE developing at a good pace. Frankly, I cannot say the last three expansions have been a good pace.


Opinions...

For me the last three expansions were amazing, and CCP should continue on that path.

The Tears Must Flow

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#967 - 2013-01-19 17:53:34 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:

Opinions...

For me the last three expansions were amazing, and CCP should continue on that path.


You started to play few months ago; the last expansion is also the only one you lnow :)
So, yes, better than nothing.
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#968 - 2013-01-19 18:42:38 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
[quote=Vera Algaert]
I couldn't care less if it's spaceships, ogres, smurfs or even pink ponies.

What matters the most is the ruthless pvp centric sandbox.


I think this is true for a larger part of palyers. We are here cause it's a persistent universe sandbox more than for the sci-fi setting. Then if somoene is also a sci-fi fan this is an added plus but not a decisive element in case of competition.


I'm a big sci-fi fan. However if tomorrow they say "we releasing a modern version of Ultima online" or a sandbox eve-style with fantasy setting I think I'd go there. Also because I'm sure in that case I could bring all my old group of friends. Thing that I cannot do with EvE.


They did make one and it hasn't done too well it's called Mortal Online so the CSM is WRONG
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#969 - 2013-01-19 18:54:35 UTC
Typherian wrote:
Star citizen is going to end up being another carebear paradise Star Trek online type failure. Any game with a PvP switch cannot compete with eve simple as that. Speaking of Star Trek it had wis and look how it turned out. If wis isn't PvP related its not worth it. PvP is what makes eve different not more carebear PvE stuff.


im pretty sure i've seen people getting killed by goons on deck in a ship before lol
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#970 - 2013-01-19 18:59:39 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
"Violent opposition" huh? On internet forums we have "violent opposition?"

Laughably and demonstrably false.


Really? You just block out the frothing hordes of bloodthirsty people screaming for the death of everyone who doesn't PvP? Or are you being intentionally dense here?

You never see carebears saying all PvP players have no right to exist, but frequently the opposite is said. You're all finally going to get the carebear free game you've always wanted. I hope it matches your expectations, and also hope you trained your mining and industry up.


mortal online is care bare free, it's also empty lmao
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#971 - 2013-01-19 19:09:23 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Just to answer a couple of points:

  • Team Avatar doesn't exist anymore. As per the thread linked earlier our prototype has been shelved for the time being. Please read both my post and the one from CCP Unifex for the full picture on what's happening with WIS development at the moment. The team members are off working on a whole bunch of stuff from the launcher, through to new game features.
  • WoD is definitely still in development and development is split off from EVE so that they can concentrate on their game and making it awesome.



So the end times are in fact upon us now...

Despite all the money and resources CCP has, their offices continue to look like relaxing vacation spots to me. Why can't CCP do what BUNGIE did and really buckle down until something gets done.

Does CCP need more people?
More money?
Better People?

All of these things can be provided if only they are asked for.


they are too comfortable with their position and I hate to say it but their cultural lifestyle is much more laid back than ours in the U.S. sooooo yah If all of CCP was managed in the U.S. we probably would be 10 years further in this game today than we actually will be in 10 years lmao
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#972 - 2013-01-19 19:14:06 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
I can only hope WiS gets axed forever.

FPS style play has no place in space simulation combat game.

If you want FPS play, then play dust that is what it is for.



I would if I could login to Dust on my PC through the EVE client and play the game that way because consoles are less than 1/8th of my PC's processing power and Dust looks like crap. you have a simple mind. what's wrong putting gameplay styles in a game that don't impact yours if you choose not to participate.

it is these kinds of attitudes that rot this community that EVE has, simple minded bigots
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#973 - 2013-01-19 19:17:33 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
I can only hope WiS gets axed forever.

FPS style play has no place in space simulation combat game.

If you want FPS play, then play dust that is what it is for.




WiS isn't "FPS", it's a 3rd-person avatar engine.


That is where you are so wrong. The very next thing for WiS is to give players guns to shoot at each other in stations.

That is what ships are for in eve. Why do we encourage WiS players? What good can it add to eve?
What roll can it play? All it does is eat system resources that are needed already elsewhere.

WiS adds nothing to the economic model of eve. It adds nothing to PvP unless you add guns and that is what dust is for.
It is only a distraction to the game. Hey already we have so many threads about nerf high sec because the PvP players want more targets. If you add WiS to eve a whole lot more players will become unavailable for PvP because they will be WiS!
WTF! It is so backwards to what eve is about.

The whole idea of WiS is detrimental to eve game play. It eats sytem resources, it occupies players that should be elsewhere, it occupies CCP employees that should be doing eve programing fixes instead.


it adds nothing if you lack VISION, CREATIVITY and IMAGINATION
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#974 - 2013-01-19 19:30:30 UTC  |  Edited by: arcca jeth
If I was a new player in this game, when players are usually the MOST critical of a game, the 1st impression. My impressions would be:

I am a bit confused as to why I have to create this avatar, choose it's clothes and take a picture. If all I can do is walk around in this room by myself and watch tv, sit on a couch or go hop in my ship. WHY did I go through the whole process of making them just right thinking it was going to matter?

I'd have a lot of questions about that and wonder if the game was "incomplete"

CCP did bring these ideas and visions to us too long ago and have failed to deliver because certain people in this game think for some self-absorbed reason that their opinion is the only one that matters. What they like in a game only matters. What they don't want in a game only matters. In reality, tons of content can be added to expand on the game that literally would not impact nor infringe on the current gameplay model nor anyones ability or enjoyment of the game as it is now.

This is the way to make EVERYONE happy. Too often the argument is me, me, me while the people who actually support WIS and additional AVATAR gameplay are all inclusive with what they want for EVE. These are the people who are thinking about everyone. We are not asking for others enjoyment to be ruined. We are asking that EVE GROW as a game. WIS FPS through PC is the only way to do it and do it correctly in a way that would impact EVE in EPIC proportions.

A Sci-Fi game that caters to a good portion of gameplay styles in one shared universe wtih consequences is the Sci-Fi gamers dream, especially if it is a sandbox and shiny to look at.

those people on the CSM said that they would go play a sand-box game in a fantasy world if it offered all the key components are so well "informed" that they don't even know that one already exists and it has already gone FTP because it's not catching on.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#975 - 2013-01-19 21:47:16 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Typherian wrote:
Star citizen is going to end up being another carebear paradise Star Trek online type failure. Any game with a PvP switch cannot compete with eve simple as that. Speaking of Star Trek it had wis and look how it turned out. If wis isn't PvP related its not worth it. PvP is what makes eve different not more carebear PvE stuff.


The game is just world of warcraft in space, it's just trash.

another remark about a game that is still in development .
Why would any game developer make a game to be as EvE?
Would be a dumb idea to get those few away from EvE.



I only enjoy sandbox mmo-rpg games, that game is a themepark mmo-rpg advertised as a sandbox game. So it is trash.


Again ,it is a game under development ,nothing is for sure yet.
lets wait and see ,what this game will be offering.
at least it got me interested and maybe it will be great and maybe it does not.
who knows ,time will tell .

R.S.I2014

Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#976 - 2013-01-20 11:20:51 UTC
arcca jeth wrote:
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
[quote=Vera Algaert]
I couldn't care less if it's spaceships, ogres, smurfs or even pink ponies.

What matters the most is the ruthless pvp centric sandbox.


I think this is true for a larger part of palyers. We are here cause it's a persistent universe sandbox more than for the sci-fi setting. Then if somoene is also a sci-fi fan this is an added plus but not a decisive element in case of competition.


I'm a big sci-fi fan. However if tomorrow they say "we releasing a modern version of Ultima online" or a sandbox eve-style with fantasy setting I think I'd go there. Also because I'm sure in that case I could bring all my old group of friends. Thing that I cannot do with EvE.


They did make one and it hasn't done too well it's called Mortal Online so the CSM is WRONG


The reason MO didn't do well had nothing to do with it's concepts (which were amazing) and everything to do with excecution (which was and still is horrible). It's like UO with ****** 3D graphics and one percent of the content.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#977 - 2013-01-21 16:07:11 UTC
Eve is almost definately the most complete multiplayer sci-fi simulator on the market. It's frankly laughable to try and argue otherwise. That said, it's a title worth holding onto, and there is only really one area of the game where that complete sci-fi experience falls down hard. And that's our Avatars.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Lothix VSX
#978 - 2013-01-22 05:36:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Lothix VSX
I'm perplexed as to why CCP added a solo captain quarters experience, a clothing store to go with it but then decided not to add the interactive social experience of actually walking out of the quarters and interacting with other players. How could the potential or success of WiS be evaluated when WiS was never properly implemented? CCP just half-assed WiS and then gave up on it.
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#979 - 2013-01-22 06:42:07 UTC
Lothix VSX wrote:
I'm perplexed as to why CCP added a solo captain quarters experience, a clothing store to go with it but then decided not to add the interactive social experience of actually walking out of the quarters and interacting with other players. How could the potential or success of WiS be evaluated when WiS was never properly implemented? CCP just half-assed WiS and then gave up on it.


Well their implementation was crap, took way too long time and was bundled up with a shameless cash grab scheme, so it's no wonder the customers went apeshit. CCP was dropped down from their clouds and now they are afraid of trying anything similar, because they think it's the WiS itself people were angry about.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#980 - 2013-01-22 07:59:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
You know, one of the issues that puzzle me about EVE and CCP is how unproductive their developers appear to be. How long it takes for them to do so little. Unofficially, I blame it to complexity, how everything you do in EVE is going to tie and interwine to so many other factors that balancing takes away most of the development effort.

Think of it, does it really take 500 people to deliver a expansion like the ones we get? Mostly revamped 10 years old sh*t?

I can't help to compare to Star Citizen and how a little team of some 30 people is planning to do in 2 years a whole new game. Of course, they're taking shortcuts: Chris Roberts is a producer, he knows his trade, and so much of the SC development has been outsourced to a established studio with expertise in Cry engine 3 and Dx11 graphics. Hired talent is cheaper and faster than to train and establish it yourself, and surely helps Robert's vision of an evolving universe.

Meanwhile, CCP is using not less than 3 separate graphic engines for their 3 products, and only one of them (DUST's Unreal Engine) can be developed by industry standards. in that sense, CCP still thinks like a tiny studio who can't afford to license an engine and must do it itself. With the manpower and hubris of a bigger studio, they're doing it twice at the time and even dared to trash an unfinished engine and develop a new one for what would become Incarna. But now... sure they have good reasons to not use EVE's Carbon for WoD, but that still is crappy resource allocation unless EVE Carbon engine is becoming a "spaceships only" engine.

The existence of a WoD Carbon casts a serious doubt on wether EVE Carbon is going to be used for avatars. Some time ago I already wondered wether CCP had the inhouse talent to create avatar content: with l all those guys doing spacehips all day, who in EVE could make avatar content without some "reskilling"?

It would be easier if they knew what to do and what to say about it, becasue it pretty much looks like they painted themselves in a corner. EVE is a spaceships game and they wouldn't be able to develop it further throguh avatars even if they figured or wanted to.

Just they don't dare to say it openly. Remove the CQ, the NEx and evertyhing but the bare character creator delivered with Incursion. If they won't make it, then should break it and stop the pain.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you