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Pulling the Plug on WiS

First post First post First post
Author
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#921 - 2013-01-17 18:45:45 UTC
It's funny because I actually totally agree with Ghazu.

We just disagree on the method of implimentation.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#922 - 2013-01-17 18:49:23 UTC
So WIS and Social ? does that have to be mandatory?
maybe for some ,but not for all.

R.S.I2014

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#923 - 2013-01-17 18:53:09 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
So WIS and Social ? does that have to be mandatory?
maybe for some ,but not for all.

I think that there's some confusion.

Station exploration isn't walking in stations. It's a NEW idea. They decided instead of going from the bottom up they would be better off going top down.

Station exploration would be like the "end game" of WiS. It's what they originally expect to be the progression of the small iteration process. They would start with social enviroments, and eventually we'd end up shooting each other.

They stopped the iteration process and started prototyping what would have been the end results of that iteration process.



Ghazu
#924 - 2013-01-17 18:58:19 UTC
christ I told you, no starting with social environments.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#925 - 2013-01-17 18:58:40 UTC
Ghazu wrote:

You guys keep on forgetting that I want wis, but on my terms


Your constant replies with the emoting thing made me think you don,t want to have WIS at all.
So maybe instead making the emote replies ,you could add your ideas and terms you are referring to .
And who knows ,maybe i could actually agree with you.

R.S.I2014

Ghazu
#926 - 2013-01-17 19:05:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghazu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpevWBx5ees this is a complicated game, it has lots of factors, each factor could be a skill. you really need a ton of skills like in fis and a lot of depth.
but for application in eve wis, it needs to be zoomed in, and presented 3rd person style (and not turn based) or something and beefed up with carbon graphics, i don't even know.
this is what i mean about for wis to work meaningfully, ccp basically needs to invent it's own archetype, basically a new kind of game.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#927 - 2013-01-17 19:08:31 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
christ I told you, no starting with social environments.



That is the problem with anything added to EvE ,is it.
In case of WIS some want combat ,others want social stuff .
some just want to get out of that hull and walk around .
i want a little bit of everything.
But to abandon a feature bc it is not as expected or not entirely on your terms?
If we do that, EvE does not evolve ever and even DUSTcrap would not exist

R.S.I2014

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#928 - 2013-01-17 19:13:13 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpevWBx5ees this is a complicated game, it has lots of factors, each factor could be a skill. you really need a ton of skills like in fis and a lot of depth.
but for application in eve wis, it needs to be zoomed in, and presented 3rd person style (and not turn based) or something and beefed up with carbon graphics, i don't even know.
this is what i mean about for wis to work meaningfully, ccp basically needs to invent it's own archetype, basically a new kind of game.



No ,when CCP invents another game in WIS ,it will have no meaning with the FIS action of this game.
It will be another DUST ,were you have to have approval to shoot
WIS could be tied into EvE a lot more,being it is social and/or combat

R.S.I2014

Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#929 - 2013-01-17 19:26:03 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpevWBx5ees this is a complicated game, it has lots of factors, each factor could be a skill. you really need a ton of skills like in fis and a lot of depth.
but for application in eve wis, it needs to be zoomed in, and presented 3rd person style (and not turn based) or something and beefed up with carbon graphics, i don't even know.
this is what i mean about for wis to work meaningfully, ccp basically needs to invent it's own archetype, basically a new kind of game.



No ,when CCP invents another game in WIS ,it will have no meaning with the FIS action of this game.


I don't get why so many people insist FiS and WiS are separate things. Go play Pirates of the Burning Sea (MMO from early 2008). You sail ships around the Caribbean (FiS), ships shoot each other, etc., just like in EVE. BUT if you manage to slow down the enemy enough to get grappling hooks going, you can board his ship and duke it out crew vs crew (WiS), where captains are player controlled and the crews are NPCs that obey basic commands, all in real time. Captains can be trained in various fencing styles (3 at launch). So instead of sinking the ship, you could board it and just stick your sword into the other guy's gullet and win that way, keeping the ship intact. If you were a pirate or a privateer class, you could even take that ship for yourself ("trade" it for your current one) and sail away in it.

Though boarding was always risky because either of the ships could be destroyed while melee was happening, and thus led to a loss. But with line of sight mechanics (which EVE doesn't have) and other features (such as wind and sail configuration affecting ship speed depending on direction) you could set up grappling action in such a way that your victim's friends couldn't really help (their friends' ship body would block you from their fire, and it would take too long to sail around against the wind). There were tactics involved. Unlike EVE where you can shoot through other ships, stations and stuff without any issues.

It was an MMO in which WiS and FiS worked beautifully together. Back in 2008. Why can't the same be done in EVE?
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#930 - 2013-01-17 20:09:28 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpevWBx5ees this is a complicated game, it has lots of factors, each factor could be a skill. you really need a ton of skills like in fis and a lot of depth.
but for application in eve wis, it needs to be zoomed in, and presented 3rd person style (and not turn based) or something and beefed up with carbon graphics, i don't even know.
this is what i mean about for wis to work meaningfully, ccp basically needs to invent it's own archetype, basically a new kind of game.



No ,when CCP invents another game in WIS ,it will have no meaning with the FIS action of this game.


I don't get why so many people insist FiS and WiS are separate things. Go play Pirates of the Burning Sea (MMO from early 2008). You sail ships around the Caribbean (FiS), ships shoot each other, etc., just like in EVE. BUT if you manage to slow down the enemy enough to get grappling hooks going, you can board his ship and duke it out crew vs crew (WiS), where captains are player controlled and the crews are NPCs that obey basic commands, all in real time. Captains can be trained in various fencing styles (3 at launch). So instead of sinking the ship, you could board it and just stick your sword into the other guy's gullet and win that way, keeping the ship intact. If you were a pirate or a privateer class, you could even take that ship for yourself ("trade" it for your current one) and sail away in it.

Though boarding was always risky because either of the ships could be destroyed while melee was happening, and thus led to a loss. But with line of sight mechanics (which EVE doesn't have) and other features (such as wind and sail configuration affecting ship speed depending on direction) you could set up grappling action in such a way that your victim's friends couldn't really help (their friends' ship body would block you from their fire, and it would take too long to sail around against the wind). There were tactics involved. Unlike EVE where you can shoot through other ships, stations and stuff without any issues.

It was an MMO in which WiS and FiS worked beautifully together. Back in 2008. Why can't the same be done in EVE?


If WIS had nothing to do with the FIS part ,WIS will fail
Or CCP has to come up with some gameplay ,we only want to connect bc of WIS and i hope this is not going to happen.
WIS could be social,but other actions in WIS must have consequences like in EvE

R.S.I2014

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#931 - 2013-01-17 20:48:26 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


Yes indeed, I feel like one day WiS will be EVE: Walking in stations (the game).

As apposed to the virtual sci-fi simulator they always touted it to one day be.
A bunch of seperate games, connected by a chat box, and maybe a gameplay connection that can be ignored, in the "EVE universe".



I think there's a possible layer to integrate WiS impelementation. New POS system, Dust integration.
When I saw that "eve universe" logo I had similar thought.
Maybe could be an option for CCP: developing a collection of separate games more flexible and upgradable sharing the same eve universe/background.

However this would also mean that they're giving up EvE as their main market option to move the focus to other models more inline with the mainstream market and more conventional.

And yes, also that they are givin up any project to implement a compelte sci-fi simulator.


Arduemont
The State of War.
#932 - 2013-01-18 00:02:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
I think it's frankly disgusting how CCP get their player base so excited about very close to promised features and then once the player base is riled up by the idea, they drop it.

I'm not just talking about Avatar based content here. I was very much looking forwards to seeing a new POS system. A POS system that would make me want to actually invest time and ISK into one, and that I saw as a potential stepping stone to meaningful WiS content. The CSM minutes show that CCP are very much interesting in pursuing their own goals with a complete disregard for the feelings of their players. They can't just raise and dash out hopes like this.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#933 - 2013-01-18 00:29:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Arduemont wrote:
I think it's frankly disgusting how CCP get their player base so excited about very close to promised features and then once the player base is riled up by the idea, they drop it.

I'm not just talking about Avatar based content here. I was very much looking forwards to seeing a new POS system. A POS system that would make me want to actually invest time and ISK into one, and that I saw as a potential stepping stone to meaningful WiS content. The CSM minutes show that CCP are very much interesting in pursuing their own goals with a complete disregard for the feelings of their players. They can't just raise and dash out hopes like this.

I'd like to echo this.

At least with things like atmospheric flight, the PoS revamp, an the station exploration, they ddin't give us anything.

It wouldn't matter to me so much if there had never been an incarna. If they had just showed us stuff, but never gave us anything. Unfortunately they gave us something, and then said never mind.

THAT pisses me off.

WoW players have been bugging sinse '04 for Blizzard to put in housing. What CCP did would be the equivilent of Blizzard saying, OK, and releasing a patch that had houses you could by, never enter, and then a year later saying, Meh we changed our mind.

It's actually pretty ****** up. CCP jumped her slutty ass on my lap, started grinding around to get me all excited and then ran home laughing. Horrible way to treat someone.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#934 - 2013-01-18 01:02:03 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
I think it's frankly disgusting how CCP get their player base so excited about very close to promised features and then once the player base is riled up by the idea, they drop it.

I'm not just talking about Avatar based content here. I was very much looking forwards to seeing a new POS system. A POS system that would make me want to actually invest time and ISK into one, and that I saw as a potential stepping stone to meaningful WiS content.


I think we talked of this just in this same thread; the point is not simply WiS, point is the lack of vision in the last 2 years. The last 3 expansion show this.

After the greed is good debacle EvE was set in a maineinance state, any major development suspended, WoD stopped, part of CCP employee fired and all the resouceses focused on delivering Dust.
And they sold to players the idea (supported in this propaganda by CSM) that adjusting some ship stats was a main feauture (like you have to call NASA engeneers to work on this). But, again, it's only an update in a SQL table.

And this lack of a vision for a game evolution will affect all, now the new PoS system we'll see what else.

I'm surious to see what will be the next expansion strategic focus; laser turrets rebalance? Afterburner overhaul?

Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#935 - 2013-01-18 01:26:30 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


It's actually pretty ****** up. CCP jumped her slutty ass on my lap, started grinding around to get me all excited and then ran home laughing. Horrible way to treat someone.


Am I the only one who remembers the terrible uproar against WiS when it came out? Yes, it was due to the monoclegate, but the public also marched agains anything that smelled even a tiny bit as 'Incarna'. For one I will not blame CCP if they are cautious about coming back to the topic.


Sura Sadiva wrote:

After the greed is good debacle EvE was set in a maineinance state, any major development suspended, WoD stopped, part of CCP employee fired and all the resouceses focused on delivering Dust.
And they sold to players the idea (supported in this propaganda by CSM) that adjusting some ship stats was a main feauture (like you have to call NASA engeneers to work on this). But, again, it's only an update in a SQL table.


Because new destroyers, Venture, FW rework, bounty system rework, crimewatch, frigates, cruisers and mining barges revamp (a total of 40 ships), war system rework and the new ship models are "an update in a SQL table" or never happened.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#936 - 2013-01-18 01:30:59 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


It's actually pretty ****** up. CCP jumped her slutty ass on my lap, started grinding around to get me all excited and then ran home laughing. Horrible way to treat someone.


Am I the only one who remembers the terrible uproar against WiS when it came out? Yes, it was due to the monoclegate, but the public also marched agains anything that smelled even a tiny bit as 'Incarna'. For one I will not blame CCP if they are cautious about coming back to the topic.


Sura Sadiva wrote:

After the greed is good debacle EvE was set in a maineinance state, any major development suspended, WoD stopped, part of CCP employee fired and all the resouceses focused on delivering Dust.
And they sold to players the idea (supported in this propaganda by CSM) that adjusting some ship stats was a main feauture (like you have to call NASA engeneers to work on this). But, again, it's only an update in a SQL table.


Because new destroyers, Venture, FW rework, bounty system rework, crimewatch, frigates, cruisers and mining barges revamp (a total of 40 ships), war system rework and the new ship models are "an update in a SQL table" or never happened.

Yes you are.

Because no one was mad about "incarna" they were a litle pissed about years of development only a jail cell to show for it.

No one had a problem with WiS. Pretty much everyone had a problem with implimentation.
Stop trying to rewrite the past. Believe it or not, pot does not impact your memory to such an extent.
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#937 - 2013-01-18 01:49:25 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Yes you are.

Because no one was mad about "incarna" they were a litle pissed about years of development only a jail cell to show for it.

No one had a problem with WiS. Pretty much everyone had a problem with implimentation.
Stop trying to rewrite the past. Believe it or not, pot does not impact your memory to such an extent.


We have been reading different forums then sir.
All I saw were rabid guys cursing at anything they could think about as related to Incarna. And this days you still can find people who hate WiS with all their soul (although if they do hate the idea or that CCP may be wasting precious resources on it is an interesting discussion), just take a look around.

Anyway, fine with me, I'm all for more WiS. Specially if they add casinos. I really want mini-games.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#938 - 2013-01-18 01:56:24 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:

Am I the only one who remembers the terrible uproar against WiS when it came out? Yes, it was due to the monoclegate, but the public also marched agains anything that smelled even a tiny bit as 'Incarna'. For one I will not blame CCP if they are cautious about coming back to the topic.


Yes, you are. Also because you started to play EvE after Incarna.



Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:

Because new destroyers, Venture, FW rework, bounty system rework, crimewatch, frigates, cruisers and mining barges revamp (a total of 40 ships), war system rework and the new ship models are "an update in a SQL table" or never happened.


Yes. What you listed would been only a sidenote or a patch in a true EvE expansion. And the last "true" expansion was Apocryphia.

But, again, you don't have a direct experience of this cause you started to play only after Incarna.

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#939 - 2013-01-18 01:58:42 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Yes you are.

Because no one was mad about "incarna" they were a litle pissed about years of development only a jail cell to show for it.

No one had a problem with WiS. Pretty much everyone had a problem with implimentation.
Stop trying to rewrite the past. Believe it or not, pot does not impact your memory to such an extent.


We have been reading different forums then sir.
All I saw were rabid guys cursing at anything they could think about as related to Incarna. And this days you still can find people who hate WiS with all their soul (although if they do hate the idea or that CCP may be wasting precious resources on it is an interesting discussion), just take a look around.

Anyway, fine with me, I'm all for more WiS. Specially if they add casinos. I really want mini-games.

I want to clarify.

WiS was fine, incarna was a piece of ****.
What was expected of incarna no one would have been mad about, what they gave us most certianly was worth being pissed at.

Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#940 - 2013-01-18 02:05:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Qvar Dar'Zanar
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


WiS was fine, incarna was a piece of ****.
What was expected of incarna no one would have been mad about, what they gave us most certianly was worth being pissed at.



While I disagree on the statement that noone would have been mad at it, judging by the presence of 'space barbies' kind of comments, which may not be many individuals but surely they are quite vocal, I agree with you in EVErything else.

Sura Sadiva wrote:

Yes, you are. Also because you started to play EvE after Incarna.


So? Did people stop talking at all in the forums after the Incarna release? Were they abduced by Sansha, and angry anti-WiS zombies placed in their stead?