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High Sec Mining with a HULK ?
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General Zaroff
Venom Pointe Industries
#1 - 2013-01-01 12:33:28 UTC
As you may have seen from my other post, I am just getting back into the game after 5 years. As I recall I enjoyed multiple aspects of the game and since I am completely new again I figured I would put my mining skills to use in high sec while I made connections that would get me into low-null sec space where I can rat/mine for better profit.

After looking over my Hulk, it seems that I could do better than my basic strip miners if I were to skill to strip miner IIs and I used crystals, it seems that without crystals, my yields wouldn't be better than the basic strip miner I. Am I understanding this right? How long will a crystal work on a tech 2 strip miner?

I've already seen some useful links about how to judge good mining ores for high sec, I find mining rather enjoyable at times and with my second account I can haul for myself which is quite the luxury.

I've been reading around and am a bit confused on the safety of .5 and higher. How has the game changed as far as the safety of my Hulk in these areas? I believe I have read a couple tales of people being attacked and killed before Fed showed up and did anything, is this accurate?

I'm going to look into exploring and other aspect of mining but starting off with high sec is easy and will be a good way to get the dust off my brain. I was going to refine the ore at a local station and then transport everything to which ever hub has the best prices. I like the idea of efficient time usage instead of trying to haul and sell the ore.

Do asteroid fields still reset after server down time?

I will add my thoughts as they arrive, as for right now I am just excited to be back on EVE.
Merouk Baas
#2 - 2013-01-01 13:20:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Merouk Baas
Wow, excited about mining and making a whole art form out of it... Good for you!

Ok they changed the exhumers around so that they have an ore hold, and basically have similar yields but with different defense capabilitites and ore holds. You want to look at the stats of all 3 exhumers, and look at the size of the ore hold vs. the amount of shields/armor/hull/toughness vs. the yield bonuses on the ship, and pick the ship you feel will best work for you.

On crystals, I don't know how long they last, but they multiply the base yield of the T2 strip laser, so you have an 8-15% increase in yield.

Suicide attacks in high-sec still happen; Concord appears within a few seconds, but some of the mining barges have so little armor and shields that they can be taken out with the first shot by a small group flying cheap destroyers. Any ship can be suicide-attacked, not just mining ships, it's just that the high-yield-low-defense mining ships cost a lot and can be taken out by 10-15 million worth of cheap ships.

So, you can either fly the defended-but-with-smaller-yield ship, or you can take your chances and watch local channel and warp out at any spike in numbers or anyone appearing in your belt.

Not sure when asteroids reset, but in high-sec they're mostly mined out in a lot of places. With the current prices of minerals, anything just about equally worth it - we're talking minor differences scordite-omber, really.

Good luck.
Rams Trough'put
White Knight's Production inc.
#3 - 2013-01-01 14:51:32 UTC
I been making pretty good isk in high sec mining in my hulk and mack(I mostly use it to haul what the hulk mines) combo.

The t1(type ore skill to 3) crystals will last you a good while, maybe 2 or 3 weeks the way I mine and cost as little as 10,000 isk. 2-5 good 100,000 m3 loads a day. T2(type ore skill to 4) crystals will last half as long and cost 100,000.

(http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Mining_crystal)
A Tech 1 mining crystal gives a 1.625 multiplier to the yield per cycle for the ore it is attuned to. A Tech 2 mining crystal gives a 1.75 multiplier.

volume (m3) Strip Miner
360 Modulated Strip Miner II w/o crystal
540 Strip Miner I
585 Modulated Strip Miner II with Tech 1 crystal
630 Modulated Strip Miner II with Tech 2 crystal
(before ship bonuses are added)

(man I need pull out a stopwatch to see how long those crystals last)
T1 crystal will last 400 cycle activations and 200 cycle activations for T2 crystals.(I dont know for sure I found this in another thread, as good as any idea how long they will last)
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-01-01 15:08:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
the new improved barge/exhumer format is

venture --> gas harvesting or mining where its not advised to
procurer/skiff --> solo/fleet mining where a high defence is needed
retriever/mackinaw --> solo mining
covetor/hulk --> fleet mining with orca/hauler support



there isnt really a ice/specific ore split anymore, each base hull is equally capable of mining either asteroids or ice
i know the venture isnt a barge, but it's a useful litle mining ship and you should know what it does


[edit]
0.5 is still hisec and therefore only gets npc non-elite frigate spawns
5 light or medium drones will melt thier faces in short order
your biggest threat as ever is other players

find nice places to mine using this site
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#5 - 2013-01-01 17:04:50 UTC
Highsec miner ganking does occur. I've been known to gank a miner or two myself from time to time, actually, it's pretty fun. From a safety perspective, roids are safer than ice, because they are more widely dispersed. You can minimize the risk by tanking your barge as best you can. Mackinaws are a bit tankier than Hulks. You can also greatly reduce your risk by mining in quiet, out of the way locations. The average ganker doesn't stray far from the major trade hubs. Belts in these places tend to be richer as well. Back in my mining days, I had a friend that had it down to a formula for how many hours of mining he got in per gank, and it was enough that it was worthwhile for him. If you mine long enough in highsec, you probably will eventually be ganked, but with a little common sense it shouldn't happen often.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
gfldex
#6 - 2013-01-01 18:01:13 UTC
General Zaroff wrote:
I believe I have read a couple tales of people being attacked and killed before Fed showed up and did anything, is this accurate?


It does happen anywhere at any time about once every 15 minutes for exhumers. For barges the numbers are higher. As always, if you undock you are a target.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-01-01 18:49:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Kitty Bear wrote:
0.5 is still hisec and therefore only gets npc non-elite frigate spawns


In 0.6 and 0.5 you get sometimes those random faction frigate spawns (Dread Guristas, Dark Blood etc.). Not sure about 0.7.

Unless they have changed it recently...

Just remembered that I have to get that LG Crystal set completed at some point.
General Zaroff
Venom Pointe Industries
#8 - 2013-01-01 23:19:57 UTC
It seems that some people are using a two mining ship combo instead of one with a freight ship. Seems like there would be a decent amount of time spent hauling but I suppose two ships mining is better than one.
General Zaroff
Venom Pointe Industries
#9 - 2013-01-02 01:01:41 UTC
With two ships, it looks like I could run a Hulk/Mack combo with the Mack hauling? Thoughts on a two ship setup?
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#10 - 2013-01-02 01:05:42 UTC
General Zaroff wrote:
With two ships, it looks like I could run a Hulk/Mack combo with the Mack hauling? Thoughts on a two ship setup?

Simpler to run 2 Macks / Retrievers
General Zaroff
Venom Pointe Industries
#11 - 2013-01-02 01:14:49 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
General Zaroff wrote:
With two ships, it looks like I could run a Hulk/Mack combo with the Mack hauling? Thoughts on a two ship setup?

Simpler to run 2 Macks / Retrievers


I guess I'm not understand why I would not be using my Hulk. Sorry, it is taking way longer than I thought to get back into the understanding of all the attributes and bonuses to ships.
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#12 - 2013-01-02 01:39:22 UTC
General Zaroff wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
General Zaroff wrote:
With two ships, it looks like I could run a Hulk/Mack combo with the Mack hauling? Thoughts on a two ship setup?

Simpler to run 2 Macks / Retrievers


I guess I'm not understand why I would not be using my Hulk. Sorry, it is taking way longer than I thought to get back into the understanding of all the attributes and bonuses to ships.


The main differences are tank, ore hold, and yield.

The Mackinaw has better tank, a quite large ore hold (therefore less micromanagement required), but has one less high slot for strip miners, therefore less yield (if I'm not missing something).

The Hulk has paper thin tank (more easily ganked), a tiny ore hold (requires a hauler so you can deposit ore into the bay, unless you want to jetcan, ie micromanagement required), yet the Hulk has an extra high slot, so should get superior yields.

If it was me, and for some reason I was inclined to mine, and I already owned the Hulk, I'd probably go ahead and mine with it. The conventional wisdom is that Mack is better for solo mining, and Hulk is better for fleets.

So in conclusion, train for a Catalyst. Use it to gank Hulks and Macks. Steal their ore. You'll probably get lower yields, but have more fun.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#13 - 2013-01-02 04:36:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
The Mack's yield is lower than the hulk's yield.

By 2% per level in Exhumers. (it gets a 50% bonus to yield, thus having the equivalent of three strip miners.)

(I might be wrong on the percentage per level. I /think/ I'm right though. The basics are right.)

It has a substantially larger ore bay than the hulk (35k m3 vs <10k m3)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Rams Trough'put
White Knight's Production inc.
#14 - 2013-01-02 05:07:59 UTC
General Zaroff wrote:
With two ships, it looks like I could run a Hulk/Mack combo with the Mack hauling? Thoughts on a two ship setup?

The 2 ship mining combo hulk/mack. well the hulk's yield(with my current kill set)

hulk lv3 with T2 crystals
1466.01 x3 = 4398.03
ore hold 8,000(enough for 1 cycle plus, enough to pass the load to the jet can before the next cycle)
6 1/4 cycles to fill a can, 4 cans a hour(4th can half filled to save a extra trip for a light load)
27,500 m3 3 full cans and 20,000m3 in the 4th makes 3 loads

Mack with lv3 T2 crystals
1969.56 x2 = 3939.12
35,000 m3 ore hold
3 quick passes to pick a total 105,000m3.

I don't have a standard hauler nearly as big as my mack hold.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#15 - 2013-01-03 00:31:35 UTC
And T2 crystals last forever... I burn through less than half a dozen in a month, and that's as a full-time miner. One pass through a blueprint and you'll die of old age before you run out of crystals.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
#16 - 2013-01-03 21:41:04 UTC
Whatever you fly, tank it. In the New Order, we scan down miners and if you present a tough nut will evaluate against what we have in the fleet. If you have too much tank for what is available you will have a chance to live.

Mining in systems with ice fields or immediately ajacent will also increase your odds of receiving a visit from the Knights of the New Order. Its pretty simple though to go to www.minerbumping.com and see where the New Order is currently operating.

Now, we are only a part of the miner ganking community and the other guys have their own tactics and tendencies.

Don't afk, watch local as there is usually some smack talking and kill mail posting after some other poor schmoe gets ganked and, the obiligatory, buy a one year mining permit, only 10,000,000 ISK for a year of gank and bump free mining. Follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct, etc etc.

Highsec is worth fighting for.

Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable

Highsec is worth fighting for.

By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.  www.minerbumping.com
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-01-03 22:31:49 UTC
10m ISk for a permit Roll ...
If you pay these clowns your an idiot and deserve to be scammed out of your money.

Losec Gate Campers 'charge' to let people live too, and as soon as you've paid, they kill you.
Thier permit is only enforcable insomuch as they have to spend ISK to blow you up.
General Zaroff
Venom Pointe Industries
#18 - 2013-01-05 00:42:37 UTC
As I understand it, the Mack can pull almost as much ore but can carry much more ore without needing a hauler. The Hulk and pull a little more per cycle but can only hold one cycle without needing a hauler.

So if I run two macks, I can mine much more without having to haul it, where as the Hulks get the job done slightly faster but have no where to put everything?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#19 - 2013-01-05 20:41:57 UTC
General Zaroff wrote:
As I understand it, the Mack can pull almost as much ore but can carry much more ore without needing a hauler. The Hulk and pull a little more per cycle but can only hold one cycle without needing a hauler.

So if I run two macks, I can mine much more without having to haul it, where as the Hulks get the job done slightly faster but have no where to put everything?



About 10% difference, iirc.

Though MLUs can mess with that.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#20 - 2013-01-06 13:20:49 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
10m ISk for a permit Roll ...
If you pay these clowns your an idiot and deserve to be scammed out of your money.

Losec Gate Campers 'charge' to let people live too, and as soon as you've paid, they kill you.
Thier permit is only enforcable insomuch as they have to spend ISK to blow you up.


Pay for the permit. Or don't, I don't care. I understand that they are pretty good about honoring it. Of course, that doesn't protect you from anyone who isn't affiliated with the New Order.

It is worth the price to support these guys for generating high quality game content in highsec for all of us to enjoy.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
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