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EVE Online: Retribution 1.0 Feedback

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DarkestHeart
ItsMeCorp
#1521 - 2012-12-12 16:25:57 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Well, let me pose this reply to your question: as most players do not use eve's audio at all (seriously, there have been a staggering number of 'eve has audio?' jokes at this point, you guys should take a hint) why are you punishing those of us that do by taking away our control of it?
82% of EVE players play with sound on and has increased from 80% since the release of Retribution.


Two points I would like to make.

First of all, theres a certain thread about the JukeBox. It would be greatly appreciated that CCP responded to that thread and actually showed that players of the game are an asset to the company and not a hinderence.

Secondly, those statistics show that CCP have the ability to see client side logs, or generates client side logs for review by CCP.

Havn't we always been told that that is not possible and that CCP cannot view logs from the client?
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1522 - 2012-12-12 16:28:30 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
I Love Boobies wrote:
I will give any Dev 1 million isk if they respond in this thread!



Yay, CCP Explorer gets 1 million ISK! Kidding aside, thank you for addressing the full room aggro on missions. Really appreciate it. Big smile


Its not just for you:

The issue had been adressed days ago, but nobody was listening:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2284045#post2284045
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1523 - 2012-12-12 16:30:19 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Good point on the bounty system, so is there anything stopping me putting a bounty on the head of a miner in high sec and then ganking him to avoid concord etc. Just wondering.


Yes, there is.

Even with a bounty on his head, Concord will still kill the suicide-ganker.

Bounties DO NOT give you a right to kill somebody. People should really try reading. This has now been stated HUNDREDS of times.
JohnnyTheBloX
Pranking Pony Xpress
#1524 - 2012-12-12 16:33:39 UTC
When the splash/loading screen of eve client will be changed from inferno to retribution?
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1525 - 2012-12-12 16:34:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Karsa Egivand
Wigster Atild wrote:
Sister Lumi wrote:
Wigster Atild wrote:

Maybe if you start reading from post #753 instead of just a few pages back you will see i have in fact give a legitemate feedback/argument ... and until either my pet is give a real answer or CCP public explain how the bounty office could possibly be used for anything but exploiting non PVP players and legitimise disruptive behaviour...I'm sure any number of my corp will gladly 'clear the bounty' when the issue is finally given its due attention lol


I read your bad posts and you still don't give any arguments why placing a bounty on someone is in any way "exploiting players" or "legitimizing disruptive behaviour".



Good job the posts are aimed towards CCP not trollers... attacking my 'bad posts' is hardly constructive.

What constructive posts have you written? or your only reply's based on criticizing someone else's point of view?


If you remember me, we already had been discussing bounties. I am interested in an explanation of why you think that people should not be able to put bounties on people in this sandbox-universe.

After all, that was no accident, it was a deliberate design decision to allow ANY player to place bounties on ALL OTHER players for no ANY reason they think appropriate. I agree with that. You seem not to. You haven't explained WHY you disagree, though.
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1526 - 2012-12-12 16:40:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Karsa Egivand
For people looking for a somewhat better discussion on how you can still run your missions (incl. using drones), might I suggest taking a look at the comment section in this blog: No Retribution For Old Drones

More so than the particular tips (centering on generating threat by using ewar and remote repping your own drones to make the AI switch back to yourself), the actual constructive tone of the discussion is what I'd like to emphasize most.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#1527 - 2012-12-12 16:42:30 UTC
Karsa Egivand wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Good point on the bounty system, so is there anything stopping me putting a bounty on the head of a miner in high sec and then ganking him to avoid concord etc. Just wondering.


Yes, there is.

Even with a bounty on his head, Concord will still kill the suicide-ganker.

Bounties DO NOT give you a right to kill somebody. People should really try reading. This has now been stated HUNDREDS of times.



Thanks for the sarcasm... I was just wondering, not everybody can spend all day reading every forum. I actually spend my limited leisure trying to play eve.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1528 - 2012-12-12 16:45:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Karsa Egivand
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Karsa Egivand wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Good point on the bounty system, so is there anything stopping me putting a bounty on the head of a miner in high sec and then ganking him to avoid concord etc. Just wondering.


Yes, there is.

Even with a bounty on his head, Concord will still kill the suicide-ganker.

Bounties DO NOT give you a right to kill somebody. People should really try reading. This has now been stated HUNDREDS of times.



Thanks for the sarcasm... I was just wondering, not everybody can spend all day reading every forum. I actually spend my limited leisure trying to play eve.


Sorry. (honestly)

I've just read too many posts by people bashing the bounty system, while not understanding it, that my tone got a bit rough. Hope you didn't mind too much.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#1529 - 2012-12-12 16:50:08 UTC
Karsa Egivand wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Karsa Egivand wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Good point on the bounty system, so is there anything stopping me putting a bounty on the head of a miner in high sec and then ganking him to avoid concord etc. Just wondering.


Yes, there is.

Even with a bounty on his head, Concord will still kill the suicide-ganker.

Bounties DO NOT give you a right to kill somebody. People should really try reading. This has now been stated HUNDREDS of times.



Thanks for the sarcasm... I was just wondering, not everybody can spend all day reading every forum. I actually spend my limited leisure trying to play eve.


Sorry. (honestly)

I've just read too many posts by people bashing the bounty system while not understanding it, that my tone got a bit rought. Hope you didn't mind too much.


No I didn't mind too much, in game I'm pretty much law abiding and as of yet have not placed a bounty on someone's head. I do try to keep up with the forums but there's too many many that post too often so I just stick to one or two that I keep up with.

I personally don't mind the ability to put a price on someone's head, but it should be done through two channels, a lawful one and an illegal one that costs more if you really, really hate someone that's done nothing that is technically wrong. I think it should be open to people with the criminal connections skill. That's just my take:)

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Wigster Atild
Enderas's Holdings Corporation
#1530 - 2012-12-12 16:53:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Wigster Atild
Wigster Atild wrote:
Still have not seen a Dev response to my earlier post #753 so I would like to expand on my 'feedback'...

The way the new Bounty system works is in direct violation of CCP's own terms and should be suspended until CCP has reviewed the facts..

Allowing anyone in the game to place a bounty on anyone else anywhere in game regardless of weather said player has committed acts that are concidered 'Criminal' is - under the current terms, as listed @
http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/chatrules.asp under Rules of Conduct - to be disruptive and damaging, not just to the individual 'victim' but to the community as a whole.. please read your own terms again as clearly this was not considered during the development stage of updating the Bounty Office...

As Stated in post #753 i was bountied 12 times in 10 mins after a player - who I cant name Sad - decided to troll the 'help' chat - which in and of its self is a violation of the above linked terms and had his/her friends do the same this action may only have cost this group 11 mill to bounty me but frankly that pales in comparison to the 600+ mill isk my ship and clone are worth... and i stand to lose all and will not be compensated for my loses... this is harassment and bullying with intent to disrupt other players as laid out in the above linked terms...

Ok i have read the patch notes and yes I am fully aware that a bounty does not mean anyone and everyone can just kill me and that system sec lvl still applies to kill someone and such actions in high sec will result in concords intervention... the link below is to you tube and a video titled High Security Suicide Ganking and shows that even with the risk of destruction some players will high sec gank for fun... so when they see a target that is valued at 100 mill for ships and mods alone with a bounty that it would make sense to attack that target over a target that has no isk gain at all...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puiWUYxx2EE

So when a player or a group of players chose to break the rules of conduct and abuse the Bounty Office System they then open the door to further already documented harassment in the form of high sec ganking.. this will force 'carebear' players out of the game and the misuse of the help chat will defiantly be having very new players cancelling their memberships in frustration.

Further conflict between the way the Bounty Office is run and CCP's own terms can be found @ http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp paragraphs 1, 4, 16 and 23...







I am not telling anyone they cant have an opinion.. GM,s have directed this issue to this thread in pets. You may think my argument is flawed and insult the educational value of my posts thats your right, however those same rights to have an opinion apply to me.. Dev's have posted early on an opinion and no mention of whether the new system allows for exploits and in anyway break CCP's listed terms on player conduct was ever addressed... one way or another an official reply would end my need to keep posting...
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1531 - 2012-12-12 17:02:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Karsa Egivand
Wigster Atild wrote:
The way the new Bounty system works is in direct violation of CCP's own terms and should be suspended until CCP has reviewed the facts.

As Stated in post #753 i was bountied 12 times in 10 mins after a player - who I cant name Sad - decided to troll the 'help' chat - which in and of its self is a violation of the above linked terms and had his/her friends do the same this action may only have cost this group 11 mill to bounty me but frankly that pales in comparison to the 600+ mill isk my ship and clone are worth... and i stand to lose all and will not be compensated for my loses... this is harassment and bullying with intent to disrupt other players as laid out in the above linked terms..



Trolling new players in the Help Channel is a violation of the TOS and will be punished. I am sure putting bounties on new players asking questions in the Help Channel falls under that category and will be a punishable offense. If you witnessed who did that, I suggest writing a petition. The GMs will deal with that kind of harassment.

Otherwise, people putting bounties on other people (even for no reason at all) is fine - and working as intended. All I've tried to tell you... the way the bounty system works (no limit to placing bounties on people) IS AS INTENDED by CCP. Very much including the additional risk to "carebears" who get bounties placed upon them. It does not violate CCP's terms of service (otherwise suicide ganking itself would violate the TOS - but suicide ganking is a perfectly accepted profession in Eve).

Much regards,
Karsa.
Hardwick Johnson
Ouroboric Absolution
The Commonwealth.
#1532 - 2012-12-12 17:49:36 UTC
CCP Explorer:

Thank you (very sincerely) for responding here. As I'm sure you can see, frustrations by the players are kinda high at the moment. But at least you're listening and acting on some of the input.

I would implore you to review the HM debacle and my post about ships vs weapon systems. Most everyone involved in PvP actions knew the Drake was a bit overpowered, much like the Hurricane was acknowledged to be. However, taking two different approaches to solve the issue created two vastly different outcomes:

1) The Hurricane was slightly nerfed by adjusting its fitting. Autocannons and arty were left alone and players continued to use them in all aspects of EVE (both PvE and PvP)

2) The Drake was left alone, but had it's primary weapons systems nerfed. This impacted not only the drake. But also the Tengu, the Nighthawk, Caracal, Cerberus, Scorp and Raven etc etc etc.

Nerfing the HM's impacted not just one single ship, but an entire racial line. Most dual role ships of the Caldari Line are now severely hamstrung in PvP and even PvE combat.

I would strongly recommend (begging is also not out of the question here) that you de-nerf the HM's and address any ship-based balancing by tweaking the ship hull itself though it's various fitting spec's.

The user interface should be reverted back to the old style as well to conform with how people generally "read" information. Think of trying to read or write code where the lines are circular in nature. You could adapt I'm sure, but it would be a massive pain in the arse, no?

You fixed the room aggro (THANK YOU!!!!) and some other minor fixes. You fix the HM's and the user interface, and a lot of currently p!ssed off players will become very happy players again. Happy players stay in the game, buy plex, get their friends to play, all sorts of good stuff. Unhappy players b!tch on the forums, cancel their subs and tell their friends to play WoW/WoT. I would much prefer to be a happy player again.
Jules Deathbringer
Redemption or Retribution
#1533 - 2012-12-12 18:03:57 UTC

[/quote]

Sorry, but you are the childish douchebag here.

Notice the smiliey after the "bro"? It obviously wasn't a serious comment. Also he is right, he never threatened anybody. The rest of your comments... are even more strange and out of place.

And yes, most places you don't work on weekends unless there are some special reasons to do so. You know, familiy and life and all.[/quote]


LOL nice one ccp explorer has a ALT!

besides showing how self important and pompous ccp devs are (like we didnt already know that),
a point that i am making is that this is a enterteainment business, not a bank, most of us play weekends and nights
only.. soo being a entertainment business that keeps bankers hours those of us with real jobs and real lives have
to wait sometimes for days for a 2 minute answer... imagine if every bar and nightclub were only open from 9 to 5..
they are entertainment businesses and wouldnt last long.

-> clearly shows that ccp does not care about customer support, unless it's between 9 and 5.

eve has the potential to be the best game out there, its a great concept, my problem is that the company who
runs the game has absolutley no sense of how to inspire customer loyalty..



Wigster Atild
Enderas's Holdings Corporation
#1534 - 2012-12-12 18:29:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Wigster Atild
Karsa Egivand wrote:
Wigster Atild wrote:
The way the new Bounty system works is in direct violation of CCP's own terms and should be suspended until CCP has reviewed the facts.

As Stated in post #753 i was bountied 12 times in 10 mins after a player - who I cant name Sad - decided to troll the 'help' chat - which in and of its self is a violation of the above linked terms and had his/her friends do the same this action may only have cost this group 11 mill to bounty me but frankly that pales in comparison to the 600+ mill isk my ship and clone are worth... and i stand to lose all and will not be compensated for my loses... this is harassment and bullying with intent to disrupt other players as laid out in the above linked terms..



Trolling new players in the Help Channel is a violation of the TOS and will be punished. I am sure putting bounties on new players asking questions in the Help Channel falls under that category and will be a punishable offense. If you witnessed who did that, I suggest writing a petition. The GMs will deal with that kind of harassment.

Otherwise, people putting bounties on other people (even for no reason at all) is fine - and working as intended. All I've tried to tell you... the way the bounty system works (no limit to placing bounties on people) IS AS INTENDED by CCP. Very much including the additional risk to "carebears" who get bounties placed upon them. It does not violate CCP's terms of service (otherwise suicide ganking itself would violate the TOS - but suicide ganking is a perfectly accepted profession in Eve).

Much regards,
Karsa.



Oh for the love of god you moron... if someone gets shot you don't arrest the gun.. gankers are the gun in this case the players throwing down bounties in chats and on forums are the ones breaking the rules....

Rules of Conduct
We would like to direct your attention to the Website Terms of Use, particularly Section 6: Chat, Bulletin Boards and Other Submissions. In addition to the terms set forth there, patrons of our chat channels should also observe the following rules.

Be respectful of others at all times.
The purpose of our chat channels is to provide a platform for the exchange of information. Occasionally, there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Be courteous when disagreeing with others. It is possible to disagree without being insulting.

Be community-minded.
Express yourself in ways that are constructive and will help to foster the growth of the community. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and helpful in the development of the game.

Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as "flaming," personal attacks are statements which are designed to personally berate or insult another. Text of this nature is not beneficial to the community spirit and will not be tolerated. Corporation, faction members and other players are cautioned to avoid allowing an "in character" dispute become an "out of character" personal attack. The game is designed for role playing and/or portraying a role and it is sometimes easy for tempers to flare when the lines between the virtual world and the real world are crossed. Keep ingame disputes out of these channels, please.

Trolling is prohibited.
"Trolling" is the phrase used to describe a remark which is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting the members of the community. Comments of this nature are disruptive and will not be tolerated.


"Newbie" bashing will not be tolerated.
New players are encouraged to participate in these channels. Observing the conversations in Help Channel or #eve-chaos is a great way for those who are new to EVE to ask questions and learn more about the game. All patrons are expected to be polite and encouraged to be helpful and courteous in their responses.
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1535 - 2012-12-12 18:31:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Karsa Egivand
Jules Deathbringer wrote:
LOL nice one ccp explorer has a ALT!

besides showing how self important and pompous ccp devs are (like we didnt already know that),
a point that i am making is that this is a enterteainment business, not a bank, most of us play weekends and nights
only.. soo being a entertainment business that keeps bankers hours those of us with real jobs and real lives have
to wait sometimes for days for a 2 minute answer... imagine if every bar and nightclub were only open from 9 to 5..
they are entertainment businesses and wouldnt last long.

-> clearly shows that ccp does not care about customer support, unless it's between 9 and 5.

eve has the potential to be the best game out there, its a great concept, my problem is that the company who
runs the game has absolutley no sense of how to inspire customer loyalty..


I wish I worked at CCP... (well, honestly, I don't... Icelandic weather and supposedly they don't pay well - but i DO wish I was working on Eve Online)

BTW, you are still showing a somewhat insulting tone, just saying.

And if you think developer responses to the community of a gaming company is comparable to the working hours of a bar/nightclub.... okay... Shocked (BTW, there are plenty times when bars are closed, when I wish they weren't - my favorite bar closes 1 a.m.)

Name one other sizable gaming company (not a small indie studio), where developers are required to regularly post on weekends. I don't think you'll find one. You'd actually have to pay them overtime and weekend-pay for sth they can just as well do on monday.

If you live in a country where employers can enslave their employees, you have my condolences. Decent labor laws are a good thing.
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1536 - 2012-12-12 18:32:56 UTC
Wigster Atild wrote:

Oh for the love of god you moron... if someone gets shot you don't arrest the gun.. gankers are the gun in this case the players throwing down bounties in chats and on forums are the ones breaking the rules....


I prefer not to be insulted. And I agreed Attention that putting bounties on players who post in the Help channel is a violation of the TOS. At least notice where I agree with you.
Wigster Atild
Enderas's Holdings Corporation
#1537 - 2012-12-12 18:59:48 UTC
Karsa Egivand wrote:
Wigster Atild wrote:

Oh for the love of god you moron... if someone gets shot you don't arrest the gun.. gankers are the gun in this case the players throwing down bounties in chats and on forums are the ones breaking the rules....


I prefer not to be insulted. And I agreed Attention that putting bounties on players who post in the Help channel is a violation of the TOS. At least notice where I agree with you.


Quote:
by Karsa Egivand

Trolling new players in the Help Channel is a violation of the TOS and will be punished. I am sure putting bounties on new players asking questions in the Help Channel falls under that category and will be a punishable offense. If you witnessed who did that, I suggest writing a petition. The GMs will deal with that kind of harassment.
Quote:


My mistake you wrote your agreement in the form of attack by suggesting i should hop off and tell someone else if i had a real concern ...

As stated in other posts i was told by GM's - RESPONDING TO PETS - that all discussion of bounty office was to be put in this thread.. and now all issues of bullying or player victimization are being ignored by ccp both in pets and by public form..

Read through again and then check in game bounties.. everyone who has voiced concern has been bountied for it and wont now post.. thats gotta be a great way to exchange ideas in a constructive manor.. "i don't agree with you, so im gonna place 100 mill on all your clan mates cause you wont stop having an opinion" - thats sure to help foster a great community..

Thats why we need terms of player conduct... and definable uses for in game mechanics that can so obviously get abused..
Willie Arwontie
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1538 - 2012-12-12 19:09:12 UTC
not liking the new sound for when an NPC is killed or wreck is salvaged.

At first it was cool could look away and always know when to start firing at something new. However, when i went to salvage the mission it was insanely loud and annoying as i use a noctis and salvage 4 wrecks at once most of the time so that noise gets repeted in succession and i was wondering if the sound can be changed or volume lowered

otherwise loving the new content and displayLol
Wigster Atild
Enderas's Holdings Corporation
#1539 - 2012-12-12 19:29:27 UTC
On the subject of high sec ganking... several times it has been claimed that ganking is a legitamite part of the game...
How so??

null sec space = free for all.. can do what you want so long as alliance leaders dont force you to sit in fllets doing nothing day in day out..

low sec = well not really sure tbh :) you shouldn't kill players cause its still got a sec standing you just not likely to get a recue fleet of concord ships in 0.1 to 0.4 - players who play here know full well that gankers will come play pirate..

high sec = attacking other players is guaranteed to get concord jump in and blow you up.. because you shouldn't be attacking other players here....

With activities already available to PVP in high sec like corp wars and faction wars why do players need to attack players who have no desire to PVP? this just a cowardly way of screwing with someone else's enjoyment of the game?? offering an isk Incentive to attack players who just want to play socially (chat with players and play co-operatively) and play in areas of the game that have for over ten years been considered a haven against unwanted PVP...

High sec gankers are by definition disruptive players....
Mak YuTsai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1540 - 2012-12-12 19:33:07 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Well, let me pose this reply to your question: as most players do not use eve's audio at all (seriously, there have been a staggering number of 'eve has audio?' jokes at this point, you guys should take a hint) why are you punishing those of us that do by taking away our control of it?
82% of EVE players play with sound on and has increased from 80% since the release of Retribution.

'Sound On'. No doubt. We depend on the important sound cues that EVE provides. Much of our current frustration focuses on having to play with diminished customisation and one particularly nasty new sound - the Klang- in order to receive these useful ingame cues.

But this discussion is about Music, about the Jukebox, is your data a responce to that issue?

Since there appears to be data available from user activity, what percentage of change has there been regarding music specifically?

If it is true that music can only be turned down and not turned off, does collected data reflect how many customers set that volume slider to 'silent'.

Is your comment a red-herring? Does 'Sound On' really mean 82% of EVE players are listening to the music?
In the context of the valuable feedback given on these many pages, can you be confident that the player experience really is of a higher quality than before?