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EVE Online: Retribution 1.0 Feedback

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Korinne
The Partisan Brigade
#1381 - 2012-12-11 16:10:59 UTC
Karsa Egivand wrote:
Korinne wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Shinzhi Xadi wrote:
Korinne:

The T2 ships haven't been redone yet. They are doing all the T1 ships first, after that the T2's will be done. That is why the T2 logi seem out of balance now, the T1's were super buffed, and the T2's haven't been updated to match.

Just be patient.


I also hope this is true. I also assume, or hope, that this is a deliberate and rather wicked scheme by CCP. They are buffing cheap T1 ships so extremely that the disadvantage of even very new players compared to veteran players is all but wiped out. That way they hope to get a massive influx of new players.

Then after a few months, the T2 ships are rebalanced and hopefully buffed, and the overpowered T1 ships possibly toned down again a bit. That will appease the veteran players, and the now-not-so-new newbies have had time to catch up on skills and will also be happy that the T2 ships they will now be able to fly shortly are becoming useful again.

That's what I hope is the logic behind it. Of course I could be wrong and they just screwed all vets for no reason :)


A few MONTHS? How about you just let me play eve for free then for those months, since that's about how much training time was invalidated in this patch.


How as it invalidated? T2 ships are still better than T1. (even if the gap has significantly narrowed, but your T2 logi still reps more than your T1 support cruiser and will be more survivable to boot.


I've tested it with 3 races now. With the exception of the Onieros (maybe, that's being generous), there is no justification to use the T2 logis. Sure they rep a bit more, about 30% give or take, but they also require an extra lvl 5 skill, an extra 100mil+ isk, have about the same tank, and about 5km extra range. Sorry, but that's just not worth the difference. On top of that, Heavy Missles are kind of **** now. Sure they took the debuff off of the T2 ones, but the range and damage nerfs kinda negate that. Really I could make an argument to where all Caldari sp is worthless now, since the few good things the Caldari had going are less effective or downright ****.
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1382 - 2012-12-11 16:26:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Ribikoka
Korinne wrote:
Ribikoka wrote:
Karsa Egivand wrote:
Ribikoka wrote:
I never understand, why nerfing a complete weapon system when just two ship was unbalanced (Drake,Tengu).


Actually, Heavy Misisles WERE too good for a long-range weapon system. It wasn't just the Drake or Tengu. It was the Heavy Missiles. Compare the Heavy Missiles of old with Artillery, Railguns, Beam Lasers. They deserved their nerf.


Never was better, just too many 0.0 alliance used drakes fleets (the real problem was the drake blob). The drake have more than 25% HP than other BCs. Have ridicuolus passive shield recharge. Was easily manage their cap. (infinity cap management with standard CFC drake fit)
A good management HAC fleet easily can kill them, i saw many times if the two fleet numbers is same. But the real problem was for the smaller alliances, their enemies brought there much 3-4 times bigger fleets there and 2-3 times bigger drake fleet can manage any enemy fleets.
I know, i fought with drakes there at least 3 years long Branch to Delve and did thousand kills with drakes.


The problem was that giant alliances could put a horde of mouthbreathers into a legion of drakes and have it still be remotely effective because the drake and alot of caldari ships are easymode. That doesn't mean they're op, almost every other race has similar ships that perform way better at their assigned task, they just require skill.

Edit: That and Heavy Missles weren't op, 100mn tengu's were, and guess what STILL ARE.


And dont forget CCP still didnt resolved the Drake problems.
They just think that, but i dont think so. The big alliances will be using them with alnost same effectiveness if they change the Fury to Caldary Navy missile.
Thats right they will lose 10% dps but still can shot to almost 63km, which is more than enough to manage ranges against hac,short range BS etc fleet.
When the big alliances realize this, the drake fleet blob wont be disappear from 0.0
Wigster Atild
Enderas's Holdings Corporation
#1383 - 2012-12-11 16:31:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Wigster Atild
@ DJ P0N-3

Not sure what i linked to in game but it say'ed 36 bill.... just checked and its diffarnt info sheet than before.. You are right no bounty it was a complete error on my part... as for me making a miss quote originally oops never noticed it but if i'd been called on it at the time I would have made some effort to change it ..

My lack of quality grammar or spelling or sentence structure aside the issue I'm making is as valid as any other and no player has right to say I should just drop it without getting the answers being sought from CCP. If GM's are to lowly (as another expressed) and Dev's deal with programming only that kinda of leaves no other options i'm aware of to voice my concern..
Lukas Rox
Aideron Technologies
#1384 - 2012-12-11 16:36:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lukas Rox
Colonial Burton wrote:
The mission 'The Assault' is practically un-doable in its current state. Using a Vargur with all level 5 skills, and deadspace fitted, still couldn't do it. Why? Because of a number of things.

1) Whole 1st room now auto-aggros on warp in, dealing well over 2.5k DPS.
2) Serpentis now damp to hell. Most I've been dampened to by Serpentis was to 17km, couldn't even lock the frigates 2km from me.
3) When I could actually lock the frigates scramming, the drones were practically insta-popped by the NPC's.

It's probably the same with all Serpentis missions. So be careful on them.

CCP, fix this issue, little rediculous don't you think?


I had exactly the same kind of issues in that mission this morning (flying Kronos)

* whole room instantly aggroed
* dampened to 18km / 120 sec lock on frigs
* drones got wasted once they started hitting NPCs

Things I *could* do to finish the mission was:

* use an alt with remote sensor booster and remote reps
or
* use a missile ship with FoF missiles
or
* gimp the webs/recharge and use two or three sensor boosters - but I have reports in this thread, that double sensor boosted ships are still dampened under 20km

I am not saying Retribution changes are bad, to the contrary: it gives a fresh perspective as you have to think much more about the tactics now when doing missions. Unfortunately right now even when you're taking scram frigs into account, NPCs counter your every counter so to speak.

This mission was quite tough as it was. Currently it is extremely hard to solo (due to excessive E-WAR it is IMHO harder than some L5s)

Proud developer of LMeve: Industry Contribution and Mass Production Tracker: https://github.com/roxlukas/lmeve | Blogging about EVE on http://pozniak.pl/wp/
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1385 - 2012-12-11 16:49:29 UTC
Ribikoka wrote:
Karsa Egivand wrote:
I disagree. (not with the Drake thing, that'll get looked at with the other BCs).

But that the problem was ONLY the Drake.

Heavy Missiles truly were too good. Far too much damage for a long-range weapon system. All the other weapon systems that could project damage so easily over long range had significantly less damage output than the short range weapon systems. Not so with Heavy Missiles.


I used them not just see numbers in EFT.
I dont care you disagree or not, the truth is, the CCP chop down a whole wood for a toothpick.
Too much damage when a 720 arty overdamage them, but the cane fleet cant manage drake fleet because their HP pool is too short compared with drakes ? LOL
Dont wrote stupid things.
CCP wrote, the tengu missile distance is too far. LOL they used 10%.lvl bonus to offensive subs and they wonder if a tengu could shot to 117km ?
They wonder when a drake can go to a lvl4 mission and their passive shield recharge almost 240hp/sec which is 2.5 times bigger than a two medium armor repairer setups ???

Fix these things, not ruin a compact weapon system. Maybe they are thinking about it, the Caldaris have so much PVP shiptypes ?
They dont have, They are the worst in the pvp line. They have just some useable pvp ship, but much fewer than other factions.


I DO have practical knowledge of Heavy Missiles.

Actually, the reason many people think projectiles "overdamage" missiles IS by judging the damage only via EFT. Missiles apply more of their theoretical dmg then projectiles due to tracking and falloff. (while explosion radius/velocity come into play somewhat less)

And again, I am not comparing Drakes and Hurricanes (both will be rebalanced soon). I am only comparing the weapon system, and I think that NOW Heavy Missiles and the others are more in balance.

Some other missile ships were too weak, which contributed to the perception that it was the Drake, not the HM that were the problem. They are now buffing those ships (the Caracal being a good example, try Heavy Missile on Caracal now, its well balanced).
Wigster Atild
Enderas's Holdings Corporation
#1386 - 2012-12-11 16:49:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Wigster Atild
Rek Seven wrote:
Wigster Atild wrote:

Spoken like a true troll.... i'm not surprised you like the bounty office in its current state, it's a trollers dream now you have even less restrictions on being a bully! and CCP have turned a blind eye just so they can claim this was a good idea..

there are plenty of ways the bounty Office could work... however you don't fix a hole by tearing it wide open and stating it's fixed!!

As for rage quitting... at no point have i said i will.. if opinions and feedback are not wanted why bother having a forum... just save the staffing costs and site management fees and write a sodding news letter instead...


You have made your point multiple times but you don't appear to be able to accepts that the majority of people don't agree with your point of view... So you spam more crap posts.

In case your corp wonders why I've placed a bounty on them, tell them they have you to thank Blink


LOL I'm sure your right the majority may disagree with me, however posting an opinion is about receiving a reply not winning popularity contests..

Edit
If players quote me or miss quote me and use question marks its kinda asking me to reply, its not like I have ramdomly thrown up posts or just trolled another player for over 45 pages just because i disagree with them..
Edit

As for placing a bounty on my entire clan will be sure to have the impact you desired of alienating me from my clan and thank you for misusing the forum to make my point for me..

Good work keep it up, the more ppl misuse the chats and forum to flame/troll other players with bounties the sooner CCP will get the message.. and see the gaping great exploit for bullying that the bounty office is now...

correction clan = corp lol slipped in to wrong game lingo Oops
Seay Prime
Roll the Hole
#1387 - 2012-12-11 16:50:47 UTC
2 Questions I have...

1- Is there a way for ccp members to reply for some posts here?

2- If the answer for question one is "yes" then the real question is: WHY ADD A NPC TIMER WHERE IF PLAYERS GET DISCONNECTED IN ANY WAY, THEY LOOSE THEIR SHIPS BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THEY STAY IN SPACE?
WHAT IS THE MAIN LOGIC IN THIS? (if there is any).
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1388 - 2012-12-11 16:50:48 UTC
Lukas Rox wrote:

* whole room instantly aggroed


CCP response to that
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1389 - 2012-12-11 16:54:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Karsa Egivand
Korinne wrote:

I've tested it with 3 races now. With the exception of the Onieros (maybe, that's being generous), there is no justification to use the T2 logis. Sure they rep a bit more, about 30% give or take, but they also require an extra lvl 5 skill, an extra 100mil+ isk, have about the same tank, and about 5km extra range. Sorry, but that's just not worth the difference. On top of that, Heavy Missles are kind of **** now. Sure they took the debuff off of the T2 ones, but the range and damage nerfs kinda negate that. Really I could make an argument to where all Caldari sp is worthless now, since the few good things the Caldari had going are less effective or downright ****.


It may (or not) amuse you: I've just started skilling a bit into Caldari and HAMs because I've got a few plans for the the revamped Caracal (for lowsec solo fun)
OkaskiKali
Aussie Carebear OverLords
#1390 - 2012-12-11 17:00:48 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
Please can you take a look into the new AI.

I currently feel that you have killed a gaming style since now hunting ratters means you have to choose ships that can handle a dps from NPC's.

This means an indirect result of the new AI is that recons and SB's have become obsolete when it comes to hunting ratters.

Edit: Merged your thread with the main Retribution feedback thread - ISD Suvetar
Borlag Crendraven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1391 - 2012-12-11 17:04:22 UTC
As someone who has hunted in wormholes both before and after the AI changes, with actual sleepers on grid that are without a doubt meaner than anything in kspace.... Just learn to adapt, seriously. You don't have to attack the guy with everything on grid, time your attack right and it's much easier. Other tactics work too, I'll leave it to you to figure them out, it's not exactly rocket science.
Jenavee De'amore
New LIfe corp
#1392 - 2012-12-11 17:08:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenavee De'amore
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:
Thanks for the info about how things work.I read the blog on release and what they are basically saying is we cant be bothered to upkeep the music player any more sort it out your self. I would be fine with this if i got a reduction in subs but that's not the case.

The reasons they gave make no sense what so ever .its only redundant for the people who never used it that's a fact.For those who did use it its a removal of a major feature in game .Why not remove the calculator notepad web browser as well ? they are all features that are available outside of eve

Fact is they cant give one good reason for its removal ,The only people that defend them on this are the people who never used it.So its easy to come on here and belittle people and say they are ranting .But i know for sure that if a major in game feature was removed that they enjoy they would do the same ,Any paying customer is entitled to do such a thing and by the way when i payed for my subs i never seen and Notice about a plan to remove the jukebox.I dislike 20% of the tracks in game and i don't want to alt and tab are use a separate programme .CCP just ruined the immersion and music for me


I'm hoping they'll patch it back in too Scaramanga. I'm well aware it's available on Soundcloud, but like you say you don't want to alt/tab in and out of game.

Anyway I'd hope people aren't going out their way to belittle other people for their opinions when it's the CCP Dev's that asked for feedback on Retribution.

As a side note also for the lab boys/ girls at CCP I think the new bounty system is too easily abused, may require tweaking?
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#1393 - 2012-12-11 17:22:56 UTC
Look into a heavy 'dictor. Infinipoint high frees up the mids. It's not a bad hunting ship. Broadsword/Onyx

BCs are cheap... just sayin'

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#1394 - 2012-12-11 17:26:57 UTC
As a counterproposal, I'm jumping on the "randomized mission spawn" bandwagon. It's probably easier to reformat existing missions anyway (as opposed to new content - which hopefully we will see updated one day - wth happens to the damsel?) I agree that one of the biggest factors making pve unexciting is predictability. I'm as guilty as anyone of initially reading the eve-survival guides to pick pve ships off in order until I memorized the triggers. I think randomized spawns (an occasional suprise) with randomized triggers (mucho importante!) would've been a much better way to manipulate the high-sec isk faucet than making missions a group task. On the one hand, I understand why they made the change. Any solo activity in a game completely based on pgc is counterproductive to the overall quality of the game. But the individual doesn't see it that way. We all start out solo and the capitalistic, cutthroat nature of the game doesn't always lend itself readily to cooperation. It doesn't even bother me that npcs switch targets, making drone use more difficult, nor am I bothered by randomized, multi-spawn aggro. I don't mind either so much. Make missions more challenging. I just dislike that after nearly a year of training with this new character I'm being TD/EW'ed to 5km (virtual irrelevance) from 100km away in a faction BS with faction tracking modules. Others are welcome to disagree, but imo, a single npc frig shouldn't be able to take me out.

Yonis Kador
Dervinus
Sunny Weather Mercenaries
The Initiative.
#1395 - 2012-12-11 17:27:00 UTC
your first whine thread wasnt enough m8? Its not even off the first page yet.

o7 toonies
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#1396 - 2012-12-11 17:27:48 UTC
Im trying to come up with some kind of clever troll for this thread...but im laughing too hard at OP.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#1397 - 2012-12-11 17:29:36 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
OkaskiKali wrote:
Please can you take a look into the new AI.

I currently feel that you have killed a gaming style since now hunting ratters means you have to choose ships that can handle a dps from NPC's.

This means an indirect result of the new AI is that recons and SB's have become obsolete when it comes to hunting ratters.


The forums are not an appropriate venue for writing love letters to CCP.

Best Regards,

Petrus Blackshell

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Joseph Dreadloch
Dread Space Inc.
#1398 - 2012-12-11 17:38:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Joseph Dreadloch
Borlag Crendraven wrote:
As someone who has hunted in wormholes both before and after the AI changes, with actual sleepers on grid that are without a doubt meaner than anything in kspace.... Just learn to adapt, seriously. You don't have to attack the guy with everything on grid, time your attack right and it's much easier. Other tactics work too, I'll leave it to you to figure them out, it's not exactly rocket science.


The difference is Local. In W-Space you have all the time in the world assuming you hold cloak or stay outside 14.3AU. In Nullsec/Lowsec the second you enter the system you're on the clock.

Anyone who gets caught in an anomaly/plex in low/null despite having the most powerful intel tool on in the game on their side is not smart, now on top of that those who would hunt these idiots have to spend more time in the area. The more time you spend waiting, the more likely the idiot in the anomaly is to notice, or if you're in a nearby system waiting on a gate, to be called out in the local intel channel.

We'll adapt, pirates have always adapted to the additional hurdles placed before them beginning with the day Sentry Guns were added and many more times since.

TL;DR: Your comparison is unfair, FIX LOCAL.
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
#1399 - 2012-12-11 17:42:50 UTC
Yonis Kador wrote:
As a counterproposal, I'm jumping on the "randomized mission spawn" bandwagon. It's probably easier to reformat existing missions anyway (as opposed to new content - which hopefully we will see updated one day - wth happens to the damsel?) I agree that one of the biggest factors making pve unexciting is predictability. I'm as guilty as anyone of initially reading the eve-survival guides to pick pve ships off in order until I memorized the triggers. I think randomized spawns (an occasional suprise) with randomized triggers (mucho importante!) would've been a much better way to manipulate the high-sec isk faucet than making missions a group task. On the one hand, I understand why they made the change. Any solo activity in a game completely based on pgc is counterproductive to the overall quality of the game. But the individual doesn't see it that way. We all start out solo and the capitalistic, cutthroat nature of the game doesn't always lend itself readily to cooperation. It doesn't even bother me that npcs switch targets, making drone use more difficult, nor am I bothered by randomized, multi-spawn aggro. I don't mind either so much. Make missions more challenging. I just dislike that after nearly a year of training with this new character I'm being TD/EW'ed to 5km (virtual irrelevance) from 100km away in a faction BS with faction tracking modules. Others are welcome to disagree, but imo, a single npc frig shouldn't be able to take me out.

Yonis Kador


About new players: I just think their newbie course should be extended to include fleet operations ( I don't know how), then everything will be ok. I pe4rsonally hate solo playing and don't even undock without having a fleet (at least don't want to).

About "single npc frig"... They're just a little-little closer to pvp than before. Missions seem to become challenging the way I wished them to be.
Xavier Holtzman
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#1400 - 2012-12-11 17:44:10 UTC
OkaskiKali wrote:
Please can you take a look into the new AI.

I currently feel that you have killed a gaming style since now hunting ratters means you have to choose ships that can handle a dps from NPC's.

This means an indirect result of the new AI is that recons and SB's have become obsolete when it comes to hunting ratters.


It is important that you continually make thread after thread relating to this subject. People will listen more. Roll

I do not like the men on this spaceship. They are uncouth and fail to appreciate my better qualities. I have something of value to contribute to this mission if only they would realize it. - Bill Frug