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EVE Online: Retribution 1.0 Feedback

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Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1301 - 2012-12-11 01:22:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara
Dograzor wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I Love Boobies wrote:
It's funny how capsuleers are being directed to this thread from the other forum sections so the "devs are sure to see it" here. Only Dev to post anything here in the past couple of days was Punkturis responding to people about devs not posting. Really is starting to look like the devs don't want feedback at all with their lack of response to some of the questions being asked. Kind of disheartening really.


It's called "let them vent off for some weeks". It's a much used tactic in the industry when they want to tell you to HTFU in a kind way, but also by some housekeepers: "sweep dirt under the rug".


Last time they did that things turned real ugly... Bear

Lets hope they learned from that point.
Nope. CCP usually checks in on these feedback threads a week or two post-release and then leaves their customers hanging with open defects and poorly designed functionality. Been that way for the past few years as CCP's game design has gone down the crapper.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1302 - 2012-12-11 01:56:24 UTC
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
Nope. CCP usually checks in on these feedback threads a week or two post-release and then lets their customers hanging with open defects and poorly designed functionality. Been that way for the past few years as CCP's game design has gone down the crapper.


I don't know what exactly happened nor I recall any developer in particular (only Punkturis because she's so cool!) but my EvE experience had been precisely split in two:

1) One old phase when they produced LOADS of fun, new content including practical features (i.e. corp hangars for Orca) but those features often were half broken. Instead of fixing them "in the background", CCP just proceeded throwing a next patch with more fun and new content (some of it broken again). I'd say the apex has been Apochrypha.


2) A new phase when they started producing much less new and sometimes less fun content, lots of fixes but half of them are for stuff that worked or nobody felt it needed a fix. So it really looks like a waste of half a year.
So we get new pizza aiming reticles nobody asked for (like in the past we got "fixed" Ugh inventory and before that we got a fixed overview) but the L4 missions are not adjusted to function with the improved NPCs AI. We get new lots of cool new drone boats and AI instapopping drones instead of posing proper challenges for every race.

It makes no sense, not for a player. If you dig enough and understand jargon like "refactoring" and similar then it may have a sense but not for a regular player who just want to see the game advance.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Serious Desire
Annoyance.
Darwinism.
#1303 - 2012-12-11 02:27:13 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Galmas wrote:
Dograzor wrote:
Dear CCP,

Due to me having to switch off safety every single time when I log in I have already missed a few kills. Please let the client or server save my safety settings.

The only safety I use when shooting stuff is my trigger finger, and I have been happy with that for years. Now I'm disappointed. Pirate



Seems to be quite a task to code that, otherwise i would have expected CCP to have it fixed by now.

Certainly massively annoying... considering one might have more than one char Cool


Yeah it's as complex as at login execute the following single line:

if (current_system_sec < 0.45) disable_security();

in Python.



Really wondering why any "new" change CCP dreams up can't be options by the player community. Most are pretty frick'n stupid.
raskonalkov
Tie Fighters Inc
#1304 - 2012-12-11 02:34:09 UTC
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
Dograzor wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I Love Boobies wrote:
It's funny how capsuleers are being directed to this thread from the other forum sections so the "devs are sure to see it" here. Only Dev to post anything here in the past couple of days was Punkturis responding to people about devs not posting. Really is starting to look like the devs don't want feedback at all with their lack of response to some of the questions being asked. Kind of disheartening really.


It's called "let them vent off for some weeks". It's a much used tactic in the industry when they want to tell you to HTFU in a kind way, but also by some housekeepers: "sweep dirt under the rug".


Last time they did that things turned real ugly... Bear

Lets hope they learned from that point.
Nope. CCP usually checks in on these feedback threads a week or two post-release and then lets their customers hanging with open defects and poorly designed functionality. Been that way for the past few years as CCP's game design has gone down the crapper.


To be fair, most of this thread is people spamming the same problems, don't have to read much of it to know what people are complaining about. Not much real reason to read this as in what improvements. They already are releasing patches to improve some problems. The drone one easily seems a bigger one harder to fix. The rebutton pushing one seems easier, but who knows.
Sven Viko VIkolander
In space we are briefly free
#1305 - 2012-12-11 04:26:20 UTC
If I could make just one complaint about retribution, it is this: I've always played eve with some of the sound on--usually so I can hear my sweet missiles fire. But since retribution I've had to shut the sound off permanently, because of the freaking steel door that slams shut whenever the tinniest thing pops. In RVB frig swarms it is especially bad, like Odin himself is making steel popcorn. Please get rid of this awful explosion noise.
Hardwick Johnson
Ouroboric Absolution
The Commonwealth.
#1306 - 2012-12-11 04:40:20 UTC
Damasa Cloudwalker wrote:
Hardwick Johnson wrote:
Edit: Discussion of moderation removed - please raise a petition if you wish to discussion actions taken by the moderation team. - ISD Suvetar


Don't worry, Hardwick. I've taken that action for you.

Petition filed.



They're gonna have to edit down a few more by the time I'm done. I've yet to meet anyone else who can string together more 4 letter words questioning someone's parentage into a coherent sentence than I.... Doubt they'll really notice though. Spelling and grammar are clearly not within their higher skill sets.

Typical response from them. To paraphrase:
"We hear you, we don't f*cking care what you have to say. Vent away and if your calling us out gets too close to home, we'll simply edit/remove your posts until everything in the forums conforms to our predetermined goals."


I logged in today. And to be perfectly honest, I wasn't even sure why I did. I had nothing to do.
Mining produces random buzzing noises, the sound of someone dropping a pipe on a concrete floor, etc.
Missions suck for at least another 3-6 months until I can cross-train into gunnery skills, but my account will expire long before that.
PI doesn't take long to cycle, production is cooking.
But honestly, aside from spinning my ship, there's nothing to do.
Even scanning is a royal pain in the arse now since it's harder than hell to re-center ****.
And the sounds... My God. I'd rather be locked in a room full of 8yr olds learning to play the clarinet than listen to half of them.

Faction warfare is dead. Sure, there's some epic battles to be had if you have a ship that's not missile dependent, but we all know how the Caldari/Gallente fight is going to end. The ninja patch 2 months early screwed that to hell and gone when they handed the frogs T4 zone control. FW is going to be a shadow of it's former glory, multiple major alliances have already left and more and more players are heading for the exits. There's just no isk to be had there anymore. Yeah, it needed a tweaking, but CCP severed the arm to take care of a hangnail.....


The good news is the wife's happy: I'm spending a whole hell of a lot less time on this game. Even after spending some extra time to play with my clan on the xbox regulating amateurs on BO:II
Fumika Karusaka
Karusaka Family
#1307 - 2012-12-11 06:00:30 UTC
I would like to state that I know nothing about all the changes except one....

My beloved Music Player is gone, now I read the post on why you removed it and all, however I would implore you to put it back, since it is the only thing to distract me while playing EVE (ie: mining).

It is not the ability to play music in-game that makes the jukebox a great idea it is the ability to on the fly maintain your playing songs without having to alt-tab out of EVE to do so.

I understand that it requires you to do more things to keep it going but personally I would be ok with you sacrificing that time to keep it in the game.

So once again I ask you to PLEEEEEASE bring back the music player.Cry

Thank you
Dante

Evil is not just an alignment, it's a perspective
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#1308 - 2012-12-11 06:06:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Himnos Altar
Hardwick Johnson wrote:


Faction warfare is dead. Sure, there's some epic battles to be had if you have a ship that's not missile dependent, but we all know how the Caldari/Gallente fight is going to end. The ninja patch 2 months early screwed that to hell and gone when they handed the frogs T4 zone control. FW is going to be a shadow of it's former glory, multiple major alliances have already left and more and more players are heading for the exits. There's just no isk to be had there anymore. Yeah, it needed a tweaking, but CCP severed the arm to take care of a hangnail.....


No ISK? Poor baby. guess it'll have to be all about the fights.

That, or you could try and organize the squids yourself. Like we did back when Damarr and cronies held every. single. Gal/Cal FW system.

But isn't that what happens when power blocs organize to make ISK by swapping zone control....only until one side decides they want to own the space?
Skullmonkey X
Forge Trilogy Incorporated
#1309 - 2012-12-11 06:32:44 UTC
JUKEBOX, what has happened to my jukebox. I enjoyed the ability of having an in-game music player so now I have to run itunes in the background and mute Eve music to be able to listen to the epic space concertos I have. Bull I say, I'm not very happy with the removal of the jukebox, it was a great little feature in the game and why was it removed in the first place, apparently spaceships can't have media players installed???
Sister Lumi
Doomheim
#1310 - 2012-12-11 07:05:30 UTC
Lowsec is full of people flying the new ships, cruiser gangs are go <3

Good times, CCP, good times Cool
Zevv Kal'Jael
Bluestar Enterprises
The Craftsmen
#1311 - 2012-12-11 07:54:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Zevv Kal'Jael
Well i am not complaining :) but CCP ask what we think about the new patch. So ... i tell em.

I HOPE this patch is the Start of a complete recalibration of weapons. If it is a start.. ok then we have to live with unusual things atm until its balanced. If this should be the End..... Holy Moly.

1 Missiles. Well.. Its ok to reduce HM range.. dmg isnt realy reduced in reality :) Less dmg against BS but more against small ships now. Is a good thing. Tengu and other HM ships where overpowered.

2 TD effects optimal and Fallof. Well... the Amount is MUCH to high. BS arent made to fly to 10km and shoot there.. most arent even fast enough to get there. Autocannons are now complete useless against sanshas and that is crap.
( Machriell 500m optimal 9km fallof after 3 TDs and i have max skills and 4 Modules ) its a joke guys.

3 UI the new target Pictures are much much to big. Realy and i would like to get the old one back as no one NEED this information about an NPC ship lol. You dont look at it you just target and klick...

4 JUkebox gone cause it needs to much Programming time to adapt it... LMAOROFLHAHAHAHA.. guys dont tread us like Mules.. its a bad joke lol.

5 I overall like the AI of Sleepers but you implemented it without adapting the missions... NOW I can fliy lvl 3 - 4 but no New player can without plöpping alot.. stage agg even in lvl 3 missions.. what kind of new player with poor fittings can now make ll 3 and 4 missions ? Guys you made it much to hard for new players now to make isk in highsec with normal missions and you will see the result soon.

Well just my 2 cent


AH btw.. last patch yesterday broke a lot of stuff and fixed nearly non of what you wrote.. Looks like a Shot from the hip hehe



EDIT well i read this post that Tengu now is crap against all other t3 cruisers in missions LMAO... you never played one it seems. Tengu was the ONLY mission runner T3 for lvl 4 and 5 until this patch as all others DO NOT make enough dmg nore they ever had enough range to be a mission runner ship. So now tengu isnt OP against the other T3s anymore.. still better but not OP.. thats a fact. No one ever can make lvl 4 missions with medium autocannons or lasers as fast as you STILL can do with HM... think before you post :)
Rancor Kane
Geuzen Inc
#1312 - 2012-12-11 08:37:26 UTC
Zevv Kal'Jael wrote:
Well i am not complaining :)


1 Missiles. Well.. Its ok to reduce HM range.. dmg isnt realy reduced in reality :) Less dmg against BS but more against small ships now. Is a good thing. Tengu and other HM ships where overpowered.




You might want to reread the changes.

HM,s do less damage as a whole and even less damage to smaller ships, it's against the larger ships the damage isn't that big a difference.
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
#1313 - 2012-12-11 08:41:50 UTC
My First impressions of the new expansion are good. I love the new shader - it is faster: I now can run the CQ on my laptop and turn effects on in space! - Also my GeForce rig is stable - and my Radeon main multi-box rig is quick. My Radeon Rig will also now permit me to open a client on a secondary monitor AFTER a client on the Primary is opened without a driver crash. This is a big improvement!! Thanks.

Because I multi-box three accounts I obviously don't struggle with missions. And I like the increased difficulty. However I do worry that the increased difficulty of these missions might make the game more inaccessible for new solo players, (esspecially as we are looking to get lots off the back of Dust!). It seems that the missions are frustrating for some people which is prehaps bad. However it might do something to reduce inflation.

Selfishly - because I'm industrial biased - I like the fact PvE people are also going to start losing equipment. And maybe people will accept this now - just as they accept losing ships in PvP!!! I doubt it - but drones becomming consumables, to some exptent, must be a good thing. I just think you might now want to make drone bays much bigger.

I also love the fact I can use my Freighters as mining support vessels!

Thanks
Maikahn
Kahn Inc
#1314 - 2012-12-11 09:01:44 UTC
I love Retribution a lot! I do have a few remarks on some of the changes:

1) Has been said a lot, but level 4 missions are a tad too harsh at the moment. Drones are targetted by the AI a bit too readily, leaving the large battleships defenseless against frigates. Also, droneboats (dominix, rattlesnake and so on) are rendered nearly obsolete in this change. At the same time, most of the missions give full room aggro upon entry, in some missions that is a LOT of dps to handle.

2) too much detail and information in the new targeting system. When you have 10 targets on your screen, it feels like half your screen is filled with just those targets. They seem a bit big, due to the amount of text added to each target. The new health bars are devided into little blocks, which can be a bit distracting. Making them clear lines would make for a nice tweak there possibly? As for the text under the target icons, could add a feature so we can modify the amount of text being shown and adjust the size of the targets to our liking (the icon/picture and overview already says what kind of ship I am fighting, doesn't have to be added there for a third time...)
Additionally, even though we now are able to stack rows of targets (lovely feature!), the rows do not stick when you get a full fresh set of targets; when you completely unlock your targets and relock afterwards, you have to remake all rows of targets ( which is a bit of a hassle when you fly logistics for example).

3) Sounds. Loving the new sounds overall. But again a little too much detail has gotten into them. Every little change in outer space seems to have gotten a little sound. Though this is nice the first hour you play Retribution, it gets easily on your nerves when you play a bit longer. A possible change here would be to add a feature where you can modify the amount of blips and beeps that are given in battle. Parallel to this: 2 sounds for completing a skill seems a bit...

my 2 cent on retribution for the moment. Keep it up ccp, good stuff being made!
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1315 - 2012-12-11 09:18:06 UTC
Zevv Kal'Jael wrote:
Well i am not complaining :) but CCP ask what we think about the new patch. So ... i tell em.

...Less dmg against BS but more against small ships now. Is a good thing.


WTF you talking about ?
More damage on small ships now ? Man i lost almost half of damage on smaller ships.
Decreased from over 800dmg/salvo to 449dmg/salvo on serpentis HACs.
Lost 14million ISK in every hours with a 2 billion worthy Tengu.
Whisky Galore
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1316 - 2012-12-11 09:35:08 UTC
Full room aggro in missions is crazy.
NPC ewar needs to be toned down.
New drone rules would be fine if there wasn't full room aggro.

Were these changes implented to deliberately kill solo missioning?
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1317 - 2012-12-11 11:17:34 UTC
Whisky Galore wrote:
Full room aggro in missions is crazy.
NPC ewar needs to be toned down.
New drone rules would be fine if there wasn't full room aggro.

Were these changes implented to deliberately kill solo missioning?




Maybe a single battleship taking on an entire fleet was undesirable gameplay.

Many of my corpmates have started missioning in pairs. It works extremely well.

Why should you be able to solo a level 4 mission anyway?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1318 - 2012-12-11 11:22:31 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:

Why should you be able to solo a level 4 mission anyway?


Because the reward doing it in more than 1 tends to become too similar to mining?

What's the excuse for a new player: "why should you be able to solo a level 1 mission anyway?"

Hey let's impose the same "must always be in group or DIE" garbage that is so trendy for null sec, it'll certainly bring in the new players!

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Wigster Atild
Enderas's Holdings Corporation
#1319 - 2012-12-11 11:27:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Wigster Atild
Rek Seven wrote:
Wigster Atild wrote:
As i thought....not one real reply from a Dev and monday is a normal work day.. prity sure its not a bank holiday too... maybe tomorrow the weekend hangovers will have subsided enough to do some work...


Are you still here banging on about the bounty system? FFS get either unsub or get on with your life.

It's a non issue. The bounty system needed fixing and this is as good a fix than i could think of. CCP are not about to completely undo all the work they have put into this.

So what do you exactly do you want from CCP now? That they tell you something you don't want to hear just so you can ***** and moan more?!



Spoken like a true troll.... i'm not surprised you like the bounty office in its current state, it's a trollers dream now you have even less restrictions on being a bully! and CCP have turned a blind eye just so they can claim this was a good idea..

there are plenty of ways the bounty Office could work... however you don't fix a hole by tearing it wide open and stating it's fixed!!

As for rage quitting... at no point have i said i will.. if opinions and feedback are not wanted why bother having a forum... just save the staffing costs and site management fees and write a sodding news letter instead...


http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/chatrules.asp

Quote:
Be community-minded.
Express yourself in ways that are constructive and will help to foster the growth of the community. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and helpful in the development of the game.


well maybe CCP need to amend that one... cause it seems if you voice an opinion its now gonna cost you something in game..

Its clearly against CCP's own terms.. still don't see it?? try reading it carefully or getting a grown up to explain it...


the game runs 23.5 hour a day on avareage.
7 days a week..
356 days a year..
So after adding an update that was known to have major issues regarding drones Everyone gets a nice long weekend and the pets and forum thread go unanswered and building up so even when they do come back to work there's a huge delay in replys... hmmm not very community minded is it??

Quote from Stormchyld post #1155
Hi CCP Alt/fanboi/troll, maybe people are posting about the insane drone hatred because it's a KNOWN BUG, as per CCP Foxfour in the testserver feedback thread regarding this and WENT AHEAD WITH IT ANYWAY??

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155703

CCP FoxFour wrote:
Just as a heads up guys you should be getting a post from one of us soon giving some details about what plans we have for the AI going forward. Sorry we have been so quiet, we have been trying to nail down a few things and figure out exactly what changes we want to make.


A major part of this update BTW with all the drone boat rebalancing - and then to not have staff work more than mon - fri 9-5 seems to me like a pisstake.. I pay to play not get paid to work!! I think that gives me the right to voice my opinion until given a legitimate answer instead of a boozy hungover Monday morning snipe from a paid employee..

As for the Bounty Office with players misusing the bounty office to place bounties on players for some of the reasons expressed so far are clearly in violation of the chat rules on player conduct..
a few given upsets
1. trolled and bountied for asking for help in the help chat
2. bountied because your name is in the same local chat as the troller
3. voicing legitimate feedback on the forums
4. just because a friend did it too
5. because its funny to watch a player rage in frustration

Not one of these reasons live up to chat terms and use of forum terms.. Its time we were given a reply to both the above issues. here read this paragraph again...


Quote:
Be community-minded.
Express yourself in ways that are constructive and will help to foster the growth of the community. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and helpful in the development of the game.

None of the above reasons are constructive none of them help foster the growth of the game when new players with zero in game knowledge are targeted and to freely exchange ideas and feedback get you bountied this is gonna stop players wanting to use both ingame and out of game channels of communication...

http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/chatrules.asp
http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp


I have petitioned the bounty and after 6 days without a reply and no public reply in the forum it's my opinion that CCP have failed its community especially those of us who got to take the brunt of ship (nurfing) rebalancing and find our efforts to play the game by CCP terms and conditions to have been a pointless waist of effort..
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1320 - 2012-12-11 11:29:05 UTC
Just wanted to say that I am very impressed with Retribution so far.

Only a few minor issues (like the new camera feature still having issues at times, causing your viewing angles to wildly bounce about...), but nothing major.

Like the bounty system, like the crimewatch changes (no longer waiting for ages for GCC to run out in lowsec), LOVE the changes to the T1 cruisers (Omen, Caracal and Thorax will be a lot of fun for me, I think).

/expansion approved