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EVE Online: Retribution 1.0 Feedback

First post
Author
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1161 - 2012-12-09 14:11:58 UTC
1. Overall great job on the expansion CCP. Love the Algos, freaking cool looking ship. In fact I would really like to see some more of the design features added to other Gallente ships (like those sweet drone bays.)

2. Tristan not bad but think it needs a bit of a look at some increased grid/CPU. Its just too tight and most fits I've found useful require too much sacrifice in fitting mods. It just needs a tweak.

3. While defensive plexing in Faction War everything is great until I deploy drones as I see a potential PvP target about to enter. To my surprise my own faction rat (which of course is not shooting at me) suddenly shoots my drones? A bug I assume? (my standing with my own faction is good.)

4. Jukebox gone? fine by me, never used it. Good riddance, plenty other out of game music players that are better.

5. I like where you are going with the Thorax and appreciate the increased mobility but this concept of brawling ships that are squishy when it operates in everyone's optimal is just a bit off. It needs a bit more tank. Please don't kill the Mega's tank when the time comes and you try to make it more mobile. Makes no sense for brawlers.

6. Vexor is awesome.

Great job CCP. Really enjoying the game.
Seay Prime
Roll the Hole
#1162 - 2012-12-09 14:21:24 UTC
Cayle Deteis wrote:
Can you explain the new Bounty system logic?
Everyone putting bounty to anyone.
wtf logic is that?
I thought bounties are consequence of illegal actions,
instead
Could you find yourself with a bounty upon your head (as many pilot since expansion experienced).
Issue is not the prize but why is allowed.
I think there is a need of fixing that.
Security status and crime actions must be connected with this.
Not an open bounty system.....It's crazy



Guys guys... slow down... everybody know's that the new bounty system just simply sucks! The real difference it made was just ruining your portrait that's all... Carebear or not everyone in new eden now has a fixed "WANTED" script written below their portrait. The real issue is the hundreds of billions worth of isk just sitting there as frozen cash for the sake of profit maximizing by ccp. Imagine you put 100m on someones head and they fly around in a regular cruiser... How many times would they have to be killed for that pool to dry up? the real answer is "it will never dry up" it's just good jucy isk sitting there for nothing. CCP made a big pool of "unavailable" money so the isk making scheme became even harder. i had a friend who got 400m stolen from corp wallet by an untrustworthy person... In an attempt to get back some of the money or to make it hard for that person to play freely she put a 100m bounty on his head. What have happened since? totally "NOTHING"... so that's 500m isk now...

Conclusion: THE WORST PATCH EVER TO BE RELEASED IN EVE.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#1163 - 2012-12-09 14:24:29 UTC
Hopefully this isn't an additional report:

When you turn on the tracking camera option, and are using 2 screen with the camera offset option, it shifts your ship back to the middle of the two screens (or so), ignoring the offset.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

zero2espect
Space-Brewery-Association
#1164 - 2012-12-09 14:26:31 UTC
New crimewatch is broken.

Corp joins alliance. Alliance is in FW. Corp/Alliance retains required standings to be in FW. Corp info confirms "at war" with opposing factions. After DT (10 hours after) we have first FW skirmish. shooting at valid war target on overview on a gate. sentries take out the 2 corp ships in the fight. receive "suspect" status and take sec status hit. other alliance members not impacted.

petitions are in, but in the 5 weeks between now and when someone looks at petition, it will be all "the logs dont show anything wrong" so thought it best to post.

it's an edge case but still broken and not documented.
Tequila Breeze
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1165 - 2012-12-09 14:32:01 UTC
CCP my feed back

UNSUB

Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1166 - 2012-12-09 14:44:48 UTC
Chiro San wrote:
*snip*

(angel space) something "sparkling transmitter"

I had done this site many times before but now its like dam

Oh snap. I have seen those across a couple of pirate faction / regions. They could be accomplished solo if done smartly.

If the rewards for finishing the site have not been buffed, then they are probably not worth running any more.

This is exactly the scenario upon which CCP was questioned / warned when these NPC behavioral changes were first announced...

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

Dazire
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1167 - 2012-12-09 15:12:26 UTC
Great patch. But, why on earth u removed the jukebox? U know that music was a huge part of this game. All time im logged i turned on the sound bar just to hear that beutifull sound. Now this game is stone-deaf.
Reid Lutman
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1168 - 2012-12-09 16:56:17 UTC
Fix the borked faction/hauler spawns in drone space.
Voivod Bathory
First point of Aries
#1169 - 2012-12-09 16:56:57 UTC
59 pages of feedback already, why not add mine.

new ships, balancing frigs, new roles for obsolete ships: I'll have to adapt a bit but overall it looks good.

bounty system: something's wrong when so many of players have large bounties on them. The exception has become general rule. I hope some Einstein dude finds a way to abuse it, then it might be fixed. *shrugs*

drone AI: belt ratting is doable, very seldom I encountered NPC's switching target to my drones. Missioning and sites on the other hand... I assume the same problem arises for the lower level missions.

Jukebox: sad to see it disappear.
Challu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1170 - 2012-12-09 16:59:19 UTC
Yo CCP, generally, nice job! ECCM skills, new destroyers, bounties, etc. are good additions.

One thing bugging me is the new targeting system. Two issues with that:

- The circular layout and the mods applied being shown underneath is a phenomenal waste of space. If I'm in a logi with 10 locked targets, I have icons spread-eagled all over my screen over multiple rows. Circles waste much more space than squares, so I can see how making it more compact is hard. Would be good if you could do something about all that superfluous white space.

- Those flashing reds when you are targeted that are supposed to pulsate based on how hard you are hit - it's near seizure inducing when you fighting a large fleet of say 50 or more. Which in some professions is a daily affair. Given absolute lack of utility in these situations trying to sift through all those reds to find the strongest pulsater, and that it makes for a painful experience to keep watching the screen, I wonder if there is any way you can put in the option to turn it off.
Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
#1171 - 2012-12-09 17:05:41 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Syri Taneka wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Edit: And full room aggro - seriously - fix that


An unfortunate side effect of a) Sleeper AI (rats aren't dumb as posts anymore) and b) not refactoring npc numbers to account for this...

That said! Myself and 2 alliance mates ran the Angel Military Operations site in RR BS' (Rattlesnake, Machariel, and Tempest) today with no problems. None of us got more than 25% shield damage, no drones died.


Yeah but try it against NPCs with decent EWAR capabilities. Angels aren't scary, an entire room flooding at you with damps/ECM and drones being munched is insane. To the point I had to warp in and out simply to acquire targets.

The NPC EWAR is absolutely currently bonkers. Seriously, you're not warping out because of damage - its so you can even lock. Primary an ewar boat, warp out...rinse & repeat until such time as it becomes manageable.

It's not a challenge, it's daft.

Might as well just add another half dozen gates to each mission with a single ewar boat in each - because it's effectively that way now.


Okay, valid point. Too many EWAR NPCs for the new AI system. For now, spend a day or two putting levels in the proper racial sensor compensation skill for your mission boat, and we'll see what CCP does when they do it.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#1172 - 2012-12-09 17:22:46 UTC
Syri Taneka wrote:

Okay, valid point. Too many EWAR NPCs for the new AI system. For now, spend a day or two putting levels in the proper racial sensor compensation skill for your mission boat, and we'll see what CCP does when they do it.


Ok, so what do those of us who already have all of them at V do? Other than try to squeeze T2 sensors into our fits.

Some of these mishs hit you with enough of them that they're actually past the point of diminishing returns.
Kristof Atruin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1173 - 2012-12-09 17:37:32 UTC
I like the new music system. I miss being able to listen to below the asteroids out in null where I live, but the new music is very "spacey". I haven't put many hours in but so far the null music always sounds the same. A little more variation would be nice.

Some weirdness I noticed with the music in highsec though, where the number of tracks makes it more noticeable. Every time you jump through a gate it picks a new song to play. This is very jarring when you're quickly traveling through several systems. The music generator should remember the security status of the system you just left and compare it to the new one, if both are in the same "music class" then it should let the current track finish playing, unless some other event triggers a change.
Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
#1174 - 2012-12-09 18:13:14 UTC
I'm going to say this once, and then I'm unsubbing this thread and leaving it to burn (preferably with most of you still in it).

This is no longer a Feedback thread. It has not been a Feedback thread for some time. It is now a "Pour hate, abuse, and vitriol out at CCP because **** you, that's why" thread.

If you've got something to say about the patch, say it once, and walk away. It helps no one, least of all you or the devs, to say the same thing over and over - several times in one day, even (you know who you are). The devs are not reading this thread for vitriol and hatred, they are looking for constructive criticism. IE:

"The new AI causes NPCs to attack drones too aggressively, marginalizing or eliminating them as a source of primary DPS in mission environments. This nullifies the usefulness of X million SP I have invested my character in, and/or has resulted in the loss of y ships because I could not kill tackle rats, as my drones all died."

"The new AI no longer waits to be aggressed in groups, but makes a concerted effort to kill off the player(s) immediately on warp in. This increases the difficulty of certain missions many fold, often to the point where they can no longer be completed without extremely awesome fits and skills."

"The new AI uses available EWAR options much too aggressively. This, coupled with the sheer number of EWAR ships in some missions, renders these missions all-but-impossible, particularly combined with the new drone aggression mechanics."

"Heavy missiles have been nerfed to the point that they no longer compare to other medium-sized, long range weapons platforms, in terms of either range or damage potential."

"The new targeting system does not deliver additional information in a visually appealing or terribly helpful format. The colored "halos" obscure the ships they surround, especially at high zoom levels where the models themselves are all-but invisible anyway. The large circles create unnecessary clutter, and have a tendency to strobe. Additionally, the triple-blink on lock is visually disruptive and does not appreciably add to the combat experience. In addition, the while there is functionality for disabling most of these new features, there was no documentation for doing so released to the playerbase along with the patch."

"The new bounty system, while superior in many ways to the old one, is much too free-form, allowing any and all parties to place bounties on whomever they choose for little or no reason. While the incentivizing of others to kill problematic individuals is a positive outcome, making it profitable to gank 'carebears' in haulers/expensive ships - regardless of what they may be carrying - is worrisome, to say the least."

"The Jukebox system, while not particularly necessary for gameplay, was an important part of the immersive experience. We have music players in our cars; is it not altogether plausible that we would have similar systems in our spaceships? Even radio stations, which play a set list of songs over which we have no control, can still be selectively listened to. Tying music choice to area of space, with an extremely limited playlist, is counter-intuitive to player enjoyment. (As a side note, not everyone has a machine robust enough to handle EVE and external music systems, nor the ability to easily control their playlists while in game.)"

^That should cover most of the important points. Now, can we continue posting in a rational, constructive manner, or shall we continue with the hateful vitriol?
Hexatron Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1175 - 2012-12-09 18:13:34 UTC
New Destroyers: Wow they look amazing ;) - didn't get around to flying one yet though.

Frig and cruiser overhaul: Now we are speaking, looks sweet overall. Most ships got buffed up, or changed to fit their roles better. There may be little things that could be improved further. I think an overhaul of t2 and faction ships is in order now too. Take the new "scanning" frigs (like Probe), they are now really amazing. But compared to them, their "big brother", the t2 varaint (aka Cheetah) just lacks in comparison now. Why would i want to fly a ship that is worse in most cases than its t1 version? So i hope they get pulled along soon as well, so you get a real sense of "progressing up the ladder" when you are finally able to fly this new shiny ship that needs so many skills.

Drone aggro: No that one seems totally off. I have been using drones very carefully before already, calling them back, deploying only when i have aggro and so on.Hearing about the changes beforehand i have been even more careful than before, but my little ones got shot down so quickly after deploying, that i was unable to pull them back at all. Not happy about this, cause as Gallente i am using them as my primary weapons. This needs adjusting badly - there must be ways to buff up the AI to prevent AFK ratting/missioning, without screwing a races main weapons.
Compare it to making turrets and launchers destroyable, and the AI going for them at first. I would assume most pilots would be very very unhappy about this, and you'd lose their favour very fast.
So this needs some overworking really badly.

Heavy Missiles: As Gallente i rarely use rockets, let alone this specific heavy variant. So i am unable to report much about this. Also i heard rumors that tracking enhancers/computers are planned to work with them sometimes in the future? So may mean they get changed/balanced through this - without real opinion on this matter.

Hurricane: My alt is flying that one... or should i say was flying that one? I think my fit was quite "normal", yet i am unable to use it now, as my skills are too few to use it with the fitting it had. I noticed i can make it working again by learning some new skills. Inconvenient. I thought the problem were the energy neutralizers in PvP? But now my PvE Hurri is just as "limited". Well i will know more when i can fly it again in about ~10 days. Lots of time lost that i could have used to fly missions or check out how the hurri would do in them....

Sounds: I had a different expectation when i read the dev blogs about it sounding like "naval battles" - more "bang". Instead i get additional bleeps and alarms that start to get annoying after some time - and they are not even configurable. Same goes with the music. The many tracks you had got replaced by a few repeating over and over? Good plan to "modernize" the sounds, maybe it will get different over time if there is more content planned to the music queue? Otherwise i would say "the plans sounded way better than the actual outcome"

Bounty: That one confuses me some. As someone being friendly and helpful overall, staying in highsec pretty much all the time, i for never expected me to have bounty. But right on the first day i had quite some of it....
Doesn't look this well if you want to recruit some newbies to help them getting into the game, and first thing they see is a big red wanted all over you.. and your corp? Guess they will go look somewhere else. Not good for small corps who try to buff up their numbers some. But i also have no idea or suggestion on how to do this different for now


Overall: I like where you go, with the ships, the basics. Keep adding to it, fix the bugs, the problems that now surface, and you may go into a very good direction. Fix the Drone aggro, give those missleboats something back when you go over their hulls, maybe put your ideas about putting tracking enhancing/computers in effect for rockets, and they may be pretty amazing once again.
I am quite happy with the expansion overall, but it has some pressing issues, that needs to be addressed asap. Making a branch of ships that was quite popular for missioning useless is the wrong way, especially after adding even more ships in that are supposed to use drones. Make the Droneboats useful again, and you may be good to go - for now. I myself have a few t2 ships in my hangar already, that are based on drones as well. If they stay this useless, this is a way to make your customers very unhappy. Keep going forward, adding to it, more soundtracks, to have more variation again ;)

diazz69
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1176 - 2012-12-09 18:23:59 UTC
and no words from ccp about de aborded topics.... something arround 30 participations in 1175 posts??
so, what is this tread for?
Cpt Wildstar
Gemini Dawn
#1177 - 2012-12-09 18:37:03 UTC
robbyx wrote:
New mega skin is horrible, paint it "caldari colours" and it could easily pass as a caldari ship....gone are the voluptuous curves that was the hallmark of the megathron.

Jukebox seems to have disappeared, asked a couple of corpies who also said that couldnt find it....although i did read the patch notes i may have missed if is a known issue.




Please fix both of these issues My mega is not MEGA anymore and jukebox is miss very much. If JB is put back lets upgrade it so you can repeat eve or personal songs.
Dism0
Soul Takers
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#1178 - 2012-12-09 19:09:01 UTC
when scanning out anoms or ships i used to be able to click on the sun, or any other celestial (or probe even), and it would set my camera to that level. now i have to right click and manipulate it manually. truly annoying.
Garko Hekard
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1179 - 2012-12-09 20:04:55 UTC
Greetings,

I heard a lot of complaints about the old bounty system was broken. But at least you had to have been a bad boy for ppl to be able to put a bounty on your head. (Security status -1 or lower, wasn't it?) Congratulations on breaking it even more. Now anyone can put a bounty on anyone? WHAT!? You really need to fix this! At least put some kind of limitation on this guys!

I don't really get the impression that you know that not every player has a desperate need for PvPing. I've been in Eve since 2005. In the last few updates I feel that everybody is forced more and more into PvPing. If you continue that direction you are forcing me to consider unsubbing my 5 accounts. Hope I'm not the only one feeling this way.

Oh, and missiles are no longer working :-P
Leviathansoul
The New Federation
Shadow Ultimatum
#1180 - 2012-12-09 20:10:08 UTC
The new bounty system sucks bigtime ....Oops What were you thinking CCP????
Seay Prime wrote:
Cayle Deteis wrote:
Can you explain the new Bounty system logic?
Everyone putting bounty to anyone.
wtf logic is that?
I thought bounties are consequence of illegal actions,
instead
Could you find yourself with a bounty upon your head (as many pilot since expansion experienced).
Issue is not the prize but why is allowed.
I think there is a need of fixing that.
Security status and crime actions must be connected with this.
Not an open bounty system.....It's crazy



Guys guys... slow down... everybody know's that the new bounty system just simply sucks! The real difference it made was just ruining your portrait that's all... Carebear or not everyone in new eden now has a fixed "WANTED" script written below their portrait. The real issue is the hundreds of billions worth of isk just sitting there as frozen cash for the sake of profit maximizing by ccp. Imagine you put 100m on someones head and they fly around in a regular cruiser... How many times would they have to be killed for that pool to dry up? the real answer is "it will never dry up" it's just good jucy isk sitting there for nothing. CCP made a big pool of "unavailable" money so the isk making scheme became even harder. i had a friend who got 400m stolen from corp wallet by an untrustworthy person... In an attempt to get back some of the money or to make it hard for that person to play freely she put a 100m bounty on his head. What have happened since? totally "NOTHING"... so that's 500m isk now...

Conclusion: THE WORST PATCH EVER TO BE RELEASED IN EVE.