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EVE Online: Retribution 1.0 Feedback

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Oraac Ensor
#1041 - 2012-12-07 15:15:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Rek Seven wrote:
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
The feature is working as intended.

I very much doubt that it was intended that players should create bounties just because they can in the purely random way that's happening now. (See above ^^^)


Obviously it is as the system was designed specifically in this way.

I as again - why shouldn't someone be able to incentives someone to kill you if you have wronged them?

Out of interest, how many times have you been killed for your bounty since the expansion?

No reason why you shouldn't put a bounty on someone who has wronged you.

I'm saying that they shouldn't be able to do that unless you have wronged them, which the new system allows them to do.

Example: I've wronged nobody and yet a bounty was placed on me an hour after your post, presumably a childish gesture by someone reading my posts in this thread, since I haven't undocked today.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1042 - 2012-12-07 15:54:37 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
I agree with OP; it's a bit stupid. Bounties should be on criminal and dangerous people, not innocent industrialists.


Lilly Becky
Miner in a Venture


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So stupid


How are you defining who is innocent? Is an alliance leader that's never fired a shot but orders thousands of players to go out and kill others innocent? How about the industrialist that builds guns? The definition of innocence is one that I don't want to tie to a single mechanic. You people decide who you think are innocent and who you think are not.



The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#1043 - 2012-12-07 16:12:54 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:

No reason why you shouldn't put a bounty on someone who has wronged you.

I'm saying that they shouldn't be able to do that unless you have wronged them, which the new system allows them to do.

Example: I've wronged nobody and yet a bounty was placed on me an hour after your post, presumably a childish gesture by someone reading my posts in this thread, since I haven't undocked today.


How do you want to define "wrong"? Only in terms of what the server code can police? What about:

- I'm providing logistics help by moving assets of your enemies?
- You're out mining in a belt and I horn in on your action and strip the belt?
- I bump you at station undock so you can't warp off?
- I follow your shiny ship from gate to gate and provide a warp-in for the gank squad?
- I keep undercutting your prices in the market?

None of those can be detected by the server code in a reliable fashion. None of those cause a suspect or criminal flag or a kill right. All of them are possible reasons for putting a bounty on someone.

What is broken with the bounty system is:

- Not being able to filter out low-value bounties from your overview / local window. We need some way to say "only show the bounty tag if they have more then X million bounty". My choice would be to default that to 10 million ISK minimum before the tag shows up. This setting would also apply to the wanted tag on the portrait (and give us different tag sizes based on ISK amount).

- No limits on the # of bounties you can place. It's far too easy to place dozens or hundreds of bounties, which waters down the system and makes the tag useless. CCP should have placed a reasonable limit on this (say a maximum of 10 outstanding bounties) and added a skill to let you place more. Then you would have to make a decision of which 10 people / corps / alliances you hated the most and stick to putting bounties on those people.

- Bounties should expire after 30 or 60 days.

- There should have been filing fees (100k individual, 1M corp, 10M alliance) and taxes (2-5% of bounty amount) to add another small ISK sink to the game.

What CCP did get right is that if the corp/alliance disbands, you only get back 80% of the remaining bounty amount. Not sure if this applies to bounties placed on individuals. (Confirmed by a dev posting yesterday or the day before.)
DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#1044 - 2012-12-07 16:35:15 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
The feature is working as intended.

I very much doubt that it was intended that players should create bounties just because they can in the purely random way that's happening now. (See above ^^^)


Obviously it is as the system was designed specifically in this way.

I as again - why shouldn't someone be able to incentives someone to kill you if you have wronged them?

Out of interest, how many times have you been killed for your bounty since the expansion?

No reason why you shouldn't put a bounty on someone who has wronged you.

I'm saying that they shouldn't be able to do that unless you have wronged them, which the new system allows them to do.

Example: I've wronged nobody and yet a bounty was placed on me an hour after your post, presumably a childish gesture by someone reading my posts in this thread, since I haven't undocked today.


Nothing ever stopped anyone from following someone around and personally violencing their boats. I don't see why incentivising boat-violencing against someone should be limited to "wrongdoing". How would you define wrongdoing, even?
Hardwick Johnson
Ouroboric Absolution
The Commonwealth.
#1045 - 2012-12-07 16:56:11 UTC
Well, I notice they no longer put the link to the forum on the log-in screen. Guess that means CCP's response to all the complaints so far is "Sod off and go away, we're tired of hearing your ****."

Shame I paid for a 1 year subscription. But that was back when things were cool, before they turned FW into a giant isk hole, before they screwed over the Cal/Gal pilots and made their primary offensive weapons skills useless.


CCP, I implore you: Take note of these posts and FIX crap. You're shooting yourself in the foot by screwing over the players. Stop pissing on our heads while telling us it's just the rain. You're worse than those ivory-tower idiots who ran PirateGalaxy into the ground.
Wigster Atild
Enderas's Holdings Corporation
#1046 - 2012-12-07 17:06:15 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Methelic Mahyisti wrote:
I agree with OP; it's a bit stupid. Bounties should be on criminal and dangerous people, not innocent industrialists.


Lilly Becky
Miner in a Venture


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So stupid


How are you defining who is innocent? Is an alliance leader that's never fired a shot but orders thousands of players to go out and kill others innocent? How about the industrialist that builds guns? The definition of innocence is one that I don't want to tie to a single mechanic. You people decide who you think are innocent and who you think are not.




I define Innocent as players who do not grief others and live the high sec carebear life... players who have a positive security standing based on the fact they dont choose a criminal career path or career paths that lead to low standings like podding and or high sec ganking, stealing and generally grieiffing for fun..

players should not be free to bounty another based on a view point on the forums or for bumping while undocking or for asking a question the troller thinks is too n00bish - as happened to me...

If CCP feel like carebearing is not a constructive and nessesary style of play then maybe they should remove the video shown to new players advocating carebear careers and they should just remove system security lvls and concord standings altogether and let anarchy exist.... see how many paying members new and old stop paying membership under those terms..
Liandri Jenquai
Doomheim
#1047 - 2012-12-07 17:30:17 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Quickly coming here to let you guys know the reports mentioning NPCs using tracking disruption too often are being looked at.


Wait what do you mean? As mentioned before Sansha Blockade has 6 TD elite cruisers. Surely you had reports of TDs being used too often before? I have meagre drone skills (barely able to use tech 2s) and that mission took FOREVER before. I would just sit there tanking because my Abaddon would have a range of 4km. Now with drone changes it is IMPOSSIBRU!
Wigster Atild
Enderas's Holdings Corporation
#1048 - 2012-12-07 17:38:26 UTC
Liandri Jenquai wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Quickly coming here to let you guys know the reports mentioning NPCs using tracking disruption too often are being looked at.


Wait what do you mean? As mentioned before Sansha Blockade has 6 TD elite cruisers. Surely you had reports of TDs being used too often before? I have meagre drone skills (barely able to use tech 2s) and that mission took FOREVER before. I would just sit there tanking because my Abaddon would have a range of 4km. Now with drone changes it is IMPOSSIBRU!


I agree with everyone who has voiced upset over the changes to drones but still feel that AI intelligent enough to go 'hey i'm getting murked by that drone maybe I should kill that 1st ' still feels like a general improvement... maybe the solution to this issue is to increase the amount of drone bay space that is available esp to droneboats. Doesn't mean we stop losing drones just means we dont need to lose so many ships if we become warp jammed and give us at least a fighting chance of successSmile
Glarbl Blarbl
Orion-Glarbl Mining Bureau
#1049 - 2012-12-07 17:54:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Glarbl Blarbl
Guess I missed the balancing post about the Osprey. Guess it was too awesome an entry-level mining cruiser... TBH, one turret mounting point makes it a ****** support boat too.

Not happy about this.

EDIT:
So apparently there are no Cruiser-class mining boats? That was a **** move CCP. I had trained one of my alts to fly an osprey so I could do the L4 mining missions which involve gas harvesting. Guess that was a big waste of time.
Glarbl Blarbl
Orion-Glarbl Mining Bureau
#1050 - 2012-12-07 17:57:14 UTC
Also, Market Deliveries should be a global window -- not saving settings per-station.
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
#1051 - 2012-12-07 18:05:24 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Cordo Draken wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


Hello,

I am not even so much daring.

I'd be happy to be able to start 4-5 clients and only 1 of them running the music. No can do as of now, I get all musics played overlapped => a pain.

Since apparently I am the only multi-client player, I'd settle for having an option somewhere to let me turn off the in game music but still listen to the new and beautiful log in screen music.

No can do either.

So, what am I meant to do? Just play a silent EvE?


LOL what? Dude, you do realize that after you log all ur alts in that you can hit 'Esc', go to Audio and use the music slider to silence the music on all but ur main account... Right? Was that so difficult to do? To figure out? If that was too hard for you, you have a lot more issues in Eve than just sound.


Don't troll 'em, took me 15 minutes to figure out how to end in-game music which will probably never be turned on again. In fact it took me that long, using the in-game search help feature which told me to click the jukebox icon on the left ui bar (still!), then looking again and again for the icon, wondering where it was moved to. They didn't even bother to update the help system, just ripped out the jukebox forcing us to listen to their in-game music and when to listen to it or find a way to turn it off. Too many trolls in this thread, arguing against any good concern.


How is stating the facts Trolling? The 'ESC' Menu has always been there and the different Audio slider controls have been there for the 5 years I've been playing. Maybe it's just me, but reducing music volume on the extra accounts was the obvious solution. True though, they should indeed clean up their Help guide and the Wiki too.

Whomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my Autocannons 
Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
#1052 - 2012-12-07 18:14:41 UTC
Ra Jackson wrote:
Syri Taneka wrote:
Yunii wrote:
Add a setting to remove or at the very least remember my choice on the Safety Light.
Prefer Diasable and hide choice TBH. PlzKThx.


QFT! Getting sick of resetting disabled safety every login! (FFS, I live in Null, there is no "safety" = P)


The safety setting makes no difference in null (or shouldn't).


Ahh, I see you are correct, sir.

*shrugs* I still don't like having to reset it every login.
Wigster Atild
Enderas's Holdings Corporation
#1053 - 2012-12-07 18:15:44 UTC
Would be nice if a Dev would take the time to look at the issues raised in the last 15-20 pages...

They were capable of making multiple replys per page before then....



So why not now????
Mikaila Penshar
SISTAHs of EVE
#1054 - 2012-12-07 18:21:27 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
The feature is working as intended.

I very much doubt that it was intended that players should create bounties just because they can in the purely random way that's happening now. (See above ^^^)


Obviously it is as the system was designed specifically in this way.

I as again - why shouldn't someone be able to incentives someone to kill you if you have wronged them?

Out of interest, how many times have you been killed for your bounty since the expansion?

No reason why you shouldn't put a bounty on someone who has wronged you.

I'm saying that they shouldn't be able to do that unless you have wronged them, which the new system allows them to do.

Example: I've wronged nobody and yet a bounty was placed on me an hour after your post, presumably a childish gesture by someone reading my posts in this thread, since I haven't undocked today.



Read your post today and added 10mil to your bounty as per your thinly veiled request... you sir are indeed going places. Bravo! I applaud your need for attention and the tasty sweetness of your tears.

PS- Bounty System seems legit now - Thanks CCP!
Marginal Utility
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#1055 - 2012-12-07 18:49:28 UTC
RE: Hurricane Nerf [20121206-3059631-8DC7EE04]

support@eveonline.com
05:33 (5 hours ago)

to me
Petition: Hurricane Nerf

2012.12.07 13:33:00 GM Dagon
Greetings, GM Dagon here.

Thank you for contacting EVE Online Customer Support and we are very sorry to hear that the recent changes to the Hurricane have made you angry.

Regrettably we in Customer Support are not able to discuss or make any decisions in regards to game design such as the changes that were made to the Hurricane's powergrid. Therefore I'm afraid the petition system is not the right place for your issue and we suggest that you post your thoughts in the Retribution Feedback thread on our forum. You can find the thread through the link provided below.

URL: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=178379&

Best regards,
GM Dagon
EVE Online Customer Support Team.


2012.12.06 05:32:00 Marginal Utility
Hello,

The hurricane nerf has made me so angry, that I learned how to swear in Icelandic to fully convey my anger and frustration with your crack-addled production staff.

Þú ert ormur í slaurslettu á endaþarmi djöfulsins!

Sincerely Yours,
M.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#1056 - 2012-12-07 18:51:47 UTC
Too bad we can't put bounties on devs. I'd love to drop a few billion on the bounty of whichever one of them thought that taking jukebox out was a good idea.
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
#1057 - 2012-12-07 19:08:35 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Webvan wrote:
Cordo Draken wrote:


LOL what? Dude, you do realize that after you log all ur alts in that you can hit 'Esc', go to Audio and use the music slider to silence the music on all but ur main account... Right? Was that so difficult to do? To figure out? If that was too hard for you, you have a lot more issues in Eve than just sound.

Don't troll 'em, took me 15 minutes to figure out how to end in-game music which will probably never be turned on again. In fact it took me that long, using the in-game search help feature which told me to click the jukebox icon on the left ui bar (still!), then looking again and again for the icon, wondering where it was moved to. They didn't even bother to update the help system, just ripped out the jukebox forcing us to listen to their in-game music and when to listen to it or find a way to turn it off. Too many trolls in this thread, arguing against any good concern.


Took me 1 minute to find it.

Does not change the fact it sucks.

Does not change that the big mouthed guy you quoted is a brown noser AND can't undestand something as simple as what a "feedback" thread is here for.


LOL, Brown noser? Hardly, I call it how I see it, wether it be a player or CCP. Someone whines that they can't do something when in fact they can... I merely pointed out the obvious solution, I didn't say that it didn't suck to do it if that's your preference... But I'd wager that toggling a music slider per client isn't that Big of a deal compared to a number of issues in this expansion. I'm pretty sure Mission runners everywhere would love to have an option to slide down the mad aggro of the AI in missions now. Pick your battles. The jukebox and music aren't gameplay breakers, and there are easy solutions to those music "issues."

Whomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my Autocannons 
Furtiva
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1058 - 2012-12-07 19:11:37 UTC
Axloth Okiah wrote:

This change makes no sense at all and serves only to make wh-farming carebears safer.

God knows that carebears who farm wormholes are entirely too safe. Big smile
Glarbl Blarbl
Orion-Glarbl Mining Bureau
#1059 - 2012-12-07 19:32:17 UTC
I am glad that the UI knows to put ships in the ship hangar if I drag them to the item hangar again :)
Oraac Ensor
#1060 - 2012-12-07 19:41:07 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
How do you want to define "wrong"? Only in terms of what the server code can police? What about:

- I'm providing logistics help by moving assets of your enemies?
- You're out mining in a belt and I horn in on your action and strip the belt?
- I bump you at station undock so you can't warp off?
- I follow your shiny ship from gate to gate and provide a warp-in for the gank squad?
- I keep undercutting your prices in the market?

None of those can be detected by the server code in a reliable fashion. None of those cause a suspect or criminal flag or a kill right. All of them are possible reasons for putting a bounty on someone.

What is broken with the bounty system is:

- Not being able to filter out low-value bounties from your overview / local window. We need some way to say "only show the bounty tag if they have more then X million bounty". My choice would be to default that to 10 million ISK minimum before the tag shows up. This setting would also apply to the wanted tag on the portrait (and give us different tag sizes based on ISK amount).

- No limits on the # of bounties you can place. It's far too easy to place dozens or hundreds of bounties, which waters down the system and makes the tag useless. CCP should have placed a reasonable limit on this (say a maximum of 10 outstanding bounties) and added a skill to let you place more. Then you would have to make a decision of which 10 people / corps / alliances you hated the most and stick to putting bounties on those people.

- Bounties should expire after 30 or 60 days.

- There should have been filing fees (100k individual, 1M corp, 10M alliance) and taxes (2-5% of bounty amount) to add another small ISK sink to the game.

What CCP did get right is that if the corp/alliance disbands, you only get back 80% of the remaining bounty amount. Not sure if this applies to bounties placed on individuals. (Confirmed by a dev posting yesterday or the day before.)

I don't disagree with any of that, although I'm not bothered about the level at which the tag shows up.

I define "wrong" as exactly what it says. All of the examples you give can be defined as wrong. I would rather focus on those things which are demonstrably not wrong.

I don't wrong anyone by posting in this thread.

I don't wrong anyone by entering a chat channel.

(Unless I insult them in either of the above - and I mean insult, not merely disagree)

I don't wrong anyone by arriving on a gate at the same time they do.

Etc, etc, etc.

What is needed is some way of distinguishing the genuine from the frivolous, but I'm clueless as to how that could be achieved.

I wholeheartedly support your suggestion of a time limit - otherwise many players will spend the rest of their EVE lives with a bounty on their head.

I would also like to see an option to remove the bounty. There must be many cases where players have a disagreement but later settle their differences. If either set up a bounty at the beginning of the spat they should be able to retract it.