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EVE Online: Retribution 1.0 Feedback

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Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#921 - 2012-12-06 23:08:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Angsty Teenager
Once again, just going to reiterate how much more difficult the new targeting UI is for me to use.

I didn't like it from the start, I rageposted about it, and now I've gone and used it for ~2 days in active combat situations flying t1 cruisers (which are great btw, nice job), and I still don't like it.

My issue is that number one, it's very difficult to see at a glance how much hp they are missing. particularly the shield and hull bars becuase there is very little contrast between that bar and whatever you are looking at on screen. I.e. if you're looking at the sun, it's harder to tell. The armor bar is ~ok~ because it has bars of white around it, but overall it's significantly harder to see how much damage somebody has at a quick glance than the old interface.

This is further compounded by the fact that the damage appears in a circle. I've said this before and I'll said it again--humans read in straight lines, not in a circle. When my eyes see the point between the white and the red, I first try to look for a horizontal bar, not a circular bar. It's simply much more difficult to do a quick check on how much damage they have taken--this is especially annoying and relevant when they are active tanking. This is already difficult for just looking at one client, but we all know that many people run more than one at once--and I personally regularly run 3 clients in combat situations all at the same time and being able to alt-tab quickly through them and gather quick information is a must. On that note, I've also noticed the damage seems to lag sometimes on the new targeting ui--not accurately showing how much damage they have taken--sometimes lagging out for a couple of seconds.

My other main issue with the UI aside from the fact that it is less readable than the old UI is that it is also bigger. It takes up a significant amount of room and in a game like eve where I need to have my chat window, my local window, my d-scan, my overview, my fleet window, my drone window, my watchlist, and my hud all setup on the screen, this increase in space taken is not helpful. It is most noticeable when doing targeting ui intensive activities like salvaging in a noctis.

CCP, it is extremely frustrating for me to use the new UI. I will grant that yes, it looks cooler, but in function it is worse than the old UI. It probably works fine for people that don't fight in combat situations where they have to manage ranges on multiple enemy ships, watch multiple ewar situations while taking quick glances at the targeting icon to see damage, but for people that do this, it is simply subpar.

Please don't let your pride of your new system get the most of you, please give us an option to use the old one, it's frustrating to login to the game, excited to play and then have my excitement slowly wane as I keep having to double check and triple check my targeting icons because I couldn't manage to see the damage or the shiptype (as noted in other people's posts, the ship icon is harder to see as well).

I would really appreciate a CCP response on this.
Rayray Xiang
Rayray Xiang Corporation
#922 - 2012-12-06 23:13:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Rayray Xiang
Well I don't have much time because I need to go back to work in a few minutes, but I read through the first few pages of replies and never saw anything on this.

I'm a new eve player, and as soon as retribution hit, a guy put a 10,000,000 million bounty on me and started to demand ransom money in a private chat. I honestly don't have anything to give because I started a few days ago so I don't know what he was thinking. I kind of made fun of him a little bit for that, so he put a 210,000,000 isk bounty on me because I guess he was mad. But I did the math and figured out that I could lose everything I have over 30 times and still not be rid of the bounty lol. So it's pretty much guaranteed I'm stuck with a bounty for at least a few months.

I understand that this game wants to protect its "sandbox" but you need stronger protections on legitimate new players for this kind of stuff, seriously. Maybe the first character created on an account cannot have a bounty placed on them until a certain number of skill points? I mean, I don't care about the bounty personally, but a loooooot of people would just quit in my situation. You guys gotta watch your design more carefully.

~ and more importantly, the veteran players need to stop whining and let CCP actually make some smart design decisions for the sake of their game. I've seen a lot of selfish and narrow minded "demands" in just the first 10 pages of this thread.

One of the comments from earlier regarded can-flipping being harder or impossible to do without being able to be podded. Now I'm new to EVE but I do have a pretty good intuition for design. I've looked at the market, and ore is expensive, my guess is because there are not enough miners to bring down the price. So what does that mean? People don't want to be miners~ and why might that be? Because it's not fun or rewarding enough to do so. So obviously CCP would be taking actions to promote more mining players, starting with the obvious things that **** miners off the most. My advice to that guy?

~ Deal with it. *Sunglasses*

-Brandon Alexander

Vancouver Film School
Game Design Program
Bianca Byun
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#923 - 2012-12-06 23:35:15 UTC
Yea, the bounty idea is fail also. Everyone in Eve has one. I use to blow up haulers in HS often enough and I never got one, the first day of the patch, I got a personal bounty. Oh also how about killrights? Dont even get me started!
GaiusAlexander
Starcorp Heavy Industries
#924 - 2012-12-06 23:48:01 UTC
I know a lot of people are upset about the new AI, but Some ninja just jumped into my mission and got arg by half the room. Including a warp jam frig. I laughed my ass off as his poor ship was blown up. Kinda made my day. Twisted
Toi Algaert
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#925 - 2012-12-06 23:48:28 UTC
Angsty Teenager wrote:
Once again, just going to reiterate how much more difficult the new targeting UI is for me to use.

I didn't like it from the start, I rageposted about it, and now I've gone and used it for ~2 days in active combat situations flying t1 cruisers (which are great btw, nice job), and I still don't like it.

My issue is that number one, it's very difficult to see at a glance how much hp they are missing. particularly the shield and hull bars becuase there is very little contrast between that bar and whatever you are looking at on screen. I.e. if you're looking at the sun, it's harder to tell. The armor bar is ~ok~ because it has bars of white around it, but overall it's significantly harder to see how much damage somebody has at a quick glance than the old interface.

This is further compounded by the fact that the damage appears in a circle. I've said this before and I'll said it again--humans read in straight lines, not in a circle. When my eyes see the point between the white and the red, I first try to look for a horizontal bar, not a circular bar. It's simply much more difficult to do a quick check on how much damage they have taken--this is especially annoying and relevant when they are active tanking. This is already difficult for just looking at one client, but we all know that many people run more than one at once--and I personally regularly run 3 clients in combat situations all at the same time and being able to alt-tab quickly through them and gather quick information is a must. On that note, I've also noticed the damage seems to lag sometimes on the new targeting ui--not accurately showing how much damage they have taken--sometimes lagging out for a couple of seconds.

My other main issue with the UI aside from the fact that it is less readable than the old UI is that it is also bigger. It takes up a significant amount of room and in a game like eve where I need to have my chat window, my local window, my d-scan, my overview, my fleet window, my drone window, my watchlist, and my hud all setup on the screen, this increase in space taken is not helpful. It is most noticeable when doing targeting ui intensive activities like salvaging in a noctis.

CCP, it is extremely frustrating for me to use the new UI. I will grant that yes, it looks cooler, but in function it is worse than the old UI. It probably works fine for people that don't fight in combat situations where they have to manage ranges on multiple enemy ships, watch multiple ewar situations while taking quick glances at the targeting icon to see damage, but for people that do this, it is simply subpar.

Please don't let your pride of your new system get the most of you, please give us an option to use the old one, it's frustrating to login to the game, excited to play and then have my excitement slowly wane as I keep having to double check and triple check my targeting icons because I couldn't manage to see the damage or the shiptype (as noted in other people's posts, the ship icon is harder to see as well).

I would really appreciate a CCP response on this.



Good luck with the CCP responding they ****** up they know this and there ignoring people who asks questions like yourself.
Well my subs are now canceled and ive left the fuckta... i mean CCP my resons for canceling.

Big smile
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#926 - 2012-12-06 23:49:28 UTC
Give me back my damn jukebox! What the hell were you people thinking! Do you have ANY IDEA how MADDENING it is to listen to the same two tracks over and over and over when you spend any amount of time in game working on something?????
Ehdward Spengler
Diplomatic Immunization
#927 - 2012-12-06 23:55:16 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Over the past couple years I've made lots of ambient, drone and dark electronic music because of the EVE Jukebox, fitting music for EVE that I often play while engrossed in game play. I fear CCP has destroyed the motivation to keep producing new music of the sort by removing the jukebox. The jukebox was a good feature for a sandbox, not only for motivating creativity by various artists, but giving players the ability to add to their individual experience and tastes within this sandbox experience. Now we have a choice of a narrow view of music for our sandbox experience (which doesn't seem very sandboxy) or turn off the music all together. So now the music of simply off. Return the jukebox before EVE becomes horribly boring.


Just make a playlist in your audio player of choice. I suspect a lot of people did that anyway and didn't bother with the dated jukebox. You can't play Spotify in the jukebox for example. It simply didn't offer anything you can't get from any one of the hundreds of audio players/services out there. I understand that you may have liked the control inside the client and that was certainly handy but it was so crusty and keeping it up to scratch seems like a bit of a waste of development resources.
Kheirozen
Yamato Tech Solutions
Sigma Grindset
#928 - 2012-12-06 23:59:54 UTC
Overall it's fine


The only thing that is a pain in the ass now is the NPC AI when running missions.

I've ran several missions to try it and not base this post on a single experience.

Everytime i get my drones out, they get aggroed and die really fast. So when i'm in a mission with a lot of frigates, i can't even kill them because if there's 20 frigates and i get the drones out, 15 of them target the drones and they just die....

They should switch target a bit less. Or maybe just less against drones ? It's all good if they switch as soon as an other ship is in.... But it just made the drone totally worthless in missions, and frigates really hard to kill in L4s
Ehdward Spengler
Diplomatic Immunization
#929 - 2012-12-07 00:04:12 UTC
Angsty Teenager wrote:
Once again, just going to reiterate how much more difficult the new targeting UI is for me to use.

I didn't like it from the start, I rageposted about it, and now I've gone and used it for ~2 days in active combat situations flying t1 cruisers (which are great btw, nice job), and I still don't like it.

My issue is that number one, it's very difficult to see at a glance how much hp they are missing. particularly the shield and hull bars becuase there is very little contrast between that bar and whatever you are looking at on screen. I.e. if you're looking at the sun, it's harder to tell. The armor bar is ~ok~ because it has bars of white around it, but overall it's significantly harder to see how much damage somebody has at a quick glance than the old interface.

This is further compounded by the fact that the damage appears in a circle. I've said this before and I'll said it again--humans read in straight lines, not in a circle. When my eyes see the point between the white and the red, I first try to look for a horizontal bar, not a circular bar. It's simply much more difficult to do a quick check on how much damage they have taken--this is especially annoying and relevant when they are active tanking. This is already difficult for just looking at one client, but we all know that many people run more than one at once--and I personally regularly run 3 clients in combat situations all at the same time and being able to alt-tab quickly through them and gather quick information is a must. On that note, I've also noticed the damage seems to lag sometimes on the new targeting ui--not accurately showing how much damage they have taken--sometimes lagging out for a couple of seconds.

My other main issue with the UI aside from the fact that it is less readable than the old UI is that it is also bigger. It takes up a significant amount of room and in a game like eve where I need to have my chat window, my local window, my d-scan, my overview, my fleet window, my drone window, my watchlist, and my hud all setup on the screen, this increase in space taken is not helpful. It is most noticeable when doing targeting ui intensive activities like salvaging in a noctis.

CCP, it is extremely frustrating for me to use the new UI. I will grant that yes, it looks cooler, but in function it is worse than the old UI. It probably works fine for people that don't fight in combat situations where they have to manage ranges on multiple enemy ships, watch multiple ewar situations while taking quick glances at the targeting icon to see damage, but for people that do this, it is simply subpar.

Please don't let your pride of your new system get the most of you, please give us an option to use the old one, it's frustrating to login to the game, excited to play and then have my excitement slowly wane as I keep having to double check and triple check my targeting icons because I couldn't manage to see the damage or the shiptype (as noted in other people's posts, the ship icon is harder to see as well).

I would really appreciate a CCP response on this.


I mostly like the new UI but I do agree with you on the contrast and ease of reading what is going on at a quick glance. They kind of blend together for me as well. It's not impossible to read and I've done fine with it but it wouldn't hurt to either make the separation of the various bars better or use different colors for shield/armour/hull (actually, that wouldn't be a bad idea for the main ship display). I see what they are trying to do by making the damage for enemy ships match the pilot's HUD but it needs more refinement.
HD 249075
Tenebrae Lux Domo
#930 - 2012-12-07 00:04:51 UTC
So far, I'm enjoying the update.
My only gripe is the needless deletion of the jukebox.

I like the idea of situational music, but I desperately desire the option to skip the battle music that starts when I use any gate in missions.

I like the OST, I like the update, but please, let me skip the goofy battle music somehow.
BMXHashy
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#931 - 2012-12-07 00:08:07 UTC  |  Edited by: BMXHashy
YEAH!

I'm loving this new sounds, especially the new EVE-Theme! And those graphic-changes are beautiful, too, but... my Vindicator(s) looks like a melted turtle now^^

And me loving the new Trailer, too^^

Good work so far, even if I'm not confirming that to some other changes... Like Salvage Drones (useless in my eyes) or selling kill rights.

One of the best update ever, I think!

For the next update I hope you set more interest in 'Highsec will be safe'-features... EVE is mutating to a stupid schoolkid-gank-and-be-happy-game!

HIGHSEC CALLED HIGHSEC because High Security. atm its a playground for gankers... and thats not ok, I think! How about thinking of implementing some RULES to get in war? In RL war normally have a reason... in eve you can do this whenever you want! How about setting some new prices for wars? e.g. more than a billion if you have no reason, but IF you have a reason its cheap?

and...

WHERE THE HELL IS THE JUKEBOX?!?
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#932 - 2012-12-07 00:09:47 UTC
Ehdward Spengler wrote:
I understand that you may have liked the control inside the client and that was certainly handy but it was so crusty and keeping it up to scratch seems like a bit of a waste of development resources.



http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n572/the_grand_artificer/The-Most-Interesting-Man-in-the-Worldcopy.jpg

As opposed, of course, to spending development time making us listen to the same thing over and over every time new content is added?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#933 - 2012-12-07 00:11:14 UTC
Baby ChuChu wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Baby ChuChu wrote:
Why was I the only member of the Boob Brigade who was had a forced re-render of their portrait to remove the sideboob? I demand an explanation...or a large sum of isk...or a hug (to help stop the tears) or something lol


Did you at least take a photo first??


Yes. Yes, I did.


Sharing is caring Lol

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Ehdward Spengler
Diplomatic Immunization
#934 - 2012-12-07 00:23:00 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Ehdward Spengler wrote:
I understand that you may have liked the control inside the client and that was certainly handy but it was so crusty and keeping it up to scratch seems like a bit of a waste of development resources.



http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n572/the_grand_artificer/The-Most-Interesting-Man-in-the-Worldcopy.jpg

As opposed, of course, to spending development time making us listen to the same thing over and over every time new content is added?


Or you could just use Foobar, Winamp, WMP, iTunes, Spotify, Rdio, VLC, Songbird, Media Monkey, etc.
Meera Delonier
The Evocati
#935 - 2012-12-07 00:26:05 UTC
We have forum teams wasting mann hours and money re designing forums... We got art teams wasting money and time re designing ship models that weren't that bad... We have how many mann hours wasted on removing jukebox and syncing the music to how they feel it should be... now we have how many mann hours reading our feedback... Which u already knew...

Seriously how do u guys get foward anymore in the game with SOOO much wasted money and so little of it spent on the real issues of the game? are those just reserved for idle conversation over a box of donuts and a coffee?
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#936 - 2012-12-07 00:41:35 UTC
Ehdward Spengler wrote:


Just make a playlist in your audio player of choice. I suspect a lot of people did that anyway and didn't bother with the dated jukebox. You can't play Spotify in the jukebox for example. It simply didn't offer anything you can't get from any one of the hundreds of audio players/services out there. I understand that you may have liked the control inside the client and that was certainly handy but it was so crusty and keeping it up to scratch seems like a bit of a waste of development resources.


What are you talking about "keeping it up to scratch"? The jukebox hasn't been worked on as far as I've played this game, it was a working feature that hadn't been touched in years and had no reason for fixes and certainly not removal. What game are you talking about???

Minimizing the client to select music is BS. The jukebox was a fantastic feature for this game, any music artist would agree, it promoted music creation and sharing with the community. Now that's dead. If you had any appreciation for composing music you would understand the frustration. Is as if the CCP sound/music devs got intimidated by the creativity of the community and is now forcing you to only listen to their narrow selection of music which will be repeated over and over until you turn off in-game music too.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Eian
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#937 - 2012-12-07 00:44:55 UTC
I'm going to need the jukebox back. I thought I would try and just change my play style but I liked listening to my own tracks when doing what ever I was doing. Different music for different things.

I love all the old EVE tunes but they are ANCIENT and now you play which ever track you want when YOU want. I play EVE to do what I WANT when I WANT. It's simple, add it back. People who don't care about it won't use it. Those who do, will.
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#938 - 2012-12-07 00:49:16 UTC
I didn't have time to investigate too many of Retribution's new features until today, and mercifully, I'm not having the majority of issues I see presented in this thread. Tbh, so many changes were made this time, I may never even see lots of them.

For the first 4 hours or so, I was pretty disappointed with the unrelenting EvE music that I've turned off by pausing the jukebox for years, and with no jukebox, wasn't sure how to turn that down. Someone eventually informed me of the slider on the settings panel for music, so even though I can't turn it off, at least I don't have to hear it. It's usually my preference to play EvE while listening to EvE Radio or streaming audio.

And while I'm writing about sounds, I don't mind the new bleeps and boops I've heard thus far. It's different, but not game-breaking like the UI was last expansion. There is a weird targeting sound each time I jump through a gate though that makes me think I'm being shot at constantly. I don't know what that's about. (New feature?)

The UI itself is finally working at a level I'm comfortable with. Do I wish that the corp hangar icon were back on the station services panel (since its part of the station?) Of course I do. But who cares? I can drag it into the neocom now and it's there if I need it. I played all day and tree-navigated zero times so consider me satisfied at this point where the UI is concerned. Persistence is much improved. So thanks to all involved in that bit.

As I primarily fly Amarr ships, I'm also not having the majority of these missile issues. I had enough time to buy and fit a Dragoon, but haven't gotten a chance to pvp in it yet. Since most Amarr ships bear some resemblence to birds, I do kinda wish it didn't look like a brick with wings but who cares? The front-end lights and overall details are nice.

I really like the new ORE frigate. I was able to purchase and fit one for 5-6 million isk. At that rate, you can afford to lose them. So I bought 3 more. I was surprised at its speed, short warp initiation, and large ore hold. (I think the ore hold volume is larger than the ship. Space magic!) When I have more time, I plan to do some "ninja mining," i.e. swooping into a low-sec system for 5-10 minutes at a time to scoop up as much low ore as I can before warping out. There's almost no risk. I think there's a lot of potential here for larger swarms of these guys to run low sec corp ops with clones in situations where people wouldn't want to take slow-moving, more-expensive barges.

I'm not sure how I feel about the new bounty system. It's pretty similar to the old system. Atm, there's a swarm of folks at each hub just targeting and bountying everything that passes by. Maybe these bounties should be ship-specific, as opposed to character-based. CCP could make it so that a bountied ship cannot be sold or contracted until the bounty is resolved, and it would prevent a good deal of alt-destruction to collect the funds. There has to be a way to have bounties still present a tempting-enough target to others, while also being a negative development for bountied players.

My only issue thus far is that the Sansha/BR pirates in the Epic Arc mission I ran to test out the expansion are able to tracking disrupt my ship into irrelevance. I fired 300 shots at a frig from a distance of 100km all the way to 7km and never hit it once. Luckily the mission doesn't expire and these guys don't warp scramble or I'dve lost my navy apoc to a npc frig. Also, I was unable to switch ammo types by right-clicking on the single, stacked weapon HUD icon. The usual r.c. option to select alternate crystals wasn't listed.

Sometime between the last expansion and this one, complaints about dorsal ship lighting prompted a change in-game that better illuminated the tops of Amarr ships. It was nice since most of these areas are metal plated and apparently all stars exist beneath us in this universe. That's gone too. My ships are pretty dark again but its not affecting gameplay.

So from my perspective, I've got a new destroyer, a new ninja-mining, ORE frig, a finally-functioning UI, and beautiful harp music every time I train a new skill. I may discover bigger issues as time goes on, but for now, if CCP can fix that tracking issue so I can hit npcs again, I'll be pretty satisfied.

Yonis Kador

Oh, and P.S. If CCP deletes the calculator and notepad from the game,I'll probably be back to complain. While I've gotten along just fine for the past 4 years by immediately pausing the jukebox, I use the calculator and notepad every single day. In fact, I've always wanted a greater character limit in both the notepad and corp bulletins. It sucks to think that tools I actually need to play the game are being considered for deletion. Don't do it!

I mean, really, how many devs does it take to make a calculator?
Leonardo Rocha
Hyper-Nova
#939 - 2012-12-07 00:52:17 UTC
CCP Killed the mission runners.

1 ) the UI is really bad for combat. Its difficult to see the bars. And they are really small.
2 ) The Drones got aggro and dies really fast.
3 ) We got FULL aggro everytime
4 ) scram switches within the frigs group. If you kill a scram firg, another starts scramming. This is nasty!
5 ) The overall difficult were increased. The bounties no longer compensate the time/effort to play a mission.

I am very disaponted with the patch.
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
#940 - 2012-12-07 00:57:17 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
3BEPEB wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:

The jukebox had no extra EVE-specific functionality and as detailed in the devblog by CCP t0rfifrans (http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73569) then we felt it was better handled by implementing location-aware soundscapes. The music is on http://soundcloud.com/ccpgames/ and is distributed with the client and there are better players out there.
oh yeah! try to play music from soundcloud in ingame browser /0\ LOL
great decision!
... I would play it with my favourite system browser Smile


Hello,

I am not even so much daring.

I'd be happy to be able to start 4-5 clients and only 1 of them running the music. No can do as of now, I get all musics played overlapped => a pain.

Since apparently I am the only multi-client player AttentionAttentionAttention, I'd settle for having an option somewhere to let me turn off the in game music but still listen to the new and beautiful log in screen music.

No can do either.

So, what am I meant to do? Just play a silent EvE? Cry


LOL what? Dude, you do realize that after you log all ur alts in that you can hit 'Esc', go to Audio and use the music slider to silence the music on all but ur main account... Right? Was that so difficult to do? To figure out? If that was too hard for you, you have a lot more issues in Eve than just sound.

Whomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my Autocannons 