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EVE Online: Retribution 1.0 Feedback

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Nene Ryuseika
The Ryuseika Group
#801 - 2012-12-06 09:46:39 UTC
I'de still like to get an answer from CCP about the auto salvage functionality on the salvage drones.


Is it intentional that it only works for wreaks you killed ? (It will not automatically salvage fleet/corp or even blue wreaks)


In other words - Should I be training Salvage Drones V on my noctis pilot or not?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#802 - 2012-12-06 09:48:37 UTC
jJohn Morgan wrote:
How do i sum up how i feel about this EXPANSION EASY : On the 3rd December i parked my "mercedes S class" in its hanger and when i came back the next day the CCP fairy had turned it into a "second hand volks wagen polo" complete with a tacky paint job and furry dice hanging from the mirror. CCP do you think we are all stupid ? and for **** sake look up the word "expantion " in a dictionary this is the last straw


I think, actually, that the person who needs to look up the word "expansion" in the dictionary, is you.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
p4wl
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#803 - 2012-12-06 09:49:33 UTC
everything is nice and smooth from my perspective, other then jump drive sound.

First time i undocked and jumped my JF i almost shat myself as the sound is so close to the old "shield/armor/structure hp low" emergency sound.

Every single jump after first... i still get that split second "omg imma get fkd" feeling. After a second i know its just the new sound but it moves me too much anyway :>
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#804 - 2012-12-06 09:52:51 UTC
p4wl wrote:
everything is nice and smooth from my perspective, other then jump drive sound.

First time i undocked and jumped my JF i almost shat myself as the sound is so close to the old "shield/armor/structure hp low" emergency sound.

Every single jump after first... i still get that split second "omg imma get fkd" feeling. After a second i know its just the new sound but it moves me too much anyway :>




Don't worry, you get used to it. I quite like the new warp sounds, actually, that noise it makes coming out of warp is sort of like a little alarm to say "get ready, you're about to die".

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#805 - 2012-12-06 09:56:01 UTC
Nene Ryuseika wrote:
I'de still like to get an answer from CCP about the auto salvage functionality on the salvage drones.


Is it intentional that it only works for wreaks you killed ? (It will not automatically salvage fleet/corp or even blue wreaks)


In other words - Should I be training Salvage Drones V on my noctis pilot or not?


I'm using five salvage drones in my Noctis right now and trust me when I say that it makes the work MUCH easier. Yes, salvage drones seem to only go after wrecks that you've destroyed yourself on auto (for the moment, that is). To get your drones to go salvage without having to give them a target, just don't target any of the wrecks, launch drones, right click the group and select "salvage", and they will go from one to the next until they are no more.

One of the other bonuses is their extra range with high drone skills. ATM, I can send salvage drones nearly 60km away, but my tractors only go to 45, so you get a bit of extra reach without having to do as much flying around.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#806 - 2012-12-06 09:59:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
CCP Explorer wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
It's time and effort spent that might be better spent on something else.
Or removing long time, beloved features on a regular basis? That is removing with no replacement. How can these be "iterations" when refactoring becomes removing?
It's perfectly normal for a long-lived game like EVE to have to remove some features at some point in its life. I even explained this in a devblog in 2009 http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=1777 (start from "Why do we constantly update EVE? "Why can't you just keep it the way it is?"").


I have maintained 10 man years software, sometimes *alone* (never with more than 3 guys) and never, not a single time I removed old functionality without first going to extreme lengths to see if users were OK with that.

We'd prune dead branches because the relevant department was disbanded / specifications deeply changed but never, NEVER removed a single feature from "live" usage. Because some apparently useless mini-feature often revealed to be required twice a year but in business-critical decisions.

We just put that code in a "demilitarized zone" with legacy code and let them hang in there till they were really phased out.

In EvE we cannot customize anything, so what you do has a direct impact on our gaming experience.

I have been able to listen to the login screen music for years to no end and now I cannot any more "JUST BECAUSE".

If I suffer from seizure (not sure this is the correct English term), the circular super-blinking aiming reticles induce immediate RL vomit.

You don't just go in legacy software with the shotgun and decapitate what happens to be challenging to preserve.

Said that, it's your product and you can make what you want.
Just be ready to face the consequences.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Nene Ryuseika
The Ryuseika Group
#807 - 2012-12-06 10:16:28 UTC
I prolly wont be arsed with doing all the targeting just for the drones on the noctis..

But well I thought hey at least salvage drones will be great on my proteus that goes out on itself scouting .. like for when I find a faction spawn. but alas.. ive been watching them salvage a Shadow Serpentis wreck now for 20 mintues. without even fail messages nothing


Lil buggers are broke all round :P
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#808 - 2012-12-06 10:20:18 UTC
Nene Ryuseika wrote:
I prolly wont be arsed with doing all the targeting just for the drones on the noctis..

But well I thought hey at least salvage drones will be great on my proteus that goes out on itself scouting .. like for when I find a faction spawn. but alas.. ive been watching them salvage a Shadow Serpentis wreck now for 20 mintues. without even fail messages nothing


Lil buggers are broke all round :P


No, they're working as intended. Have you read their stats? What are your salvaging skills? Salvage drones are not intended to replace salvagers, and one drone with level 1 skill has only a 2% chance of successful salvage - on a Shadow (faction) wreck, that's as good as zero.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Nene Ryuseika
The Ryuseika Group
#809 - 2012-12-06 10:28:30 UTC
5 drones on level 3 ..

20 minutes.. should be able to do it IMHO


god remiel would argue gallente space ain't green if I said so

SALVAGE DRONES ARE BROKEN

and trolls who have to counter every single thing people say won't change that

This thread is twice as long as it needs to be because of Remiel Pollard

Can we get some new posting rules. :P
poppeteer
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#810 - 2012-12-06 10:33:30 UTC
Oh, yeah, what happened to compact mode UniInv ? Documented un-feature?
Meridian Black
Unspoken Autonomy.
#811 - 2012-12-06 10:34:30 UTC
Quote:
Part of the Loki engine had fallen off during its V3 upgrade and has been *duck* taped back on


I LOL'ed Big smile

Is duck tape an up- or downgrade over our usual duct tape?
cheese monkey
Chilil-out
#812 - 2012-12-06 10:36:50 UTC
The sentinel seems kinda redundant now...

--

http://eveboard.com/ub/627817229-39.png
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#813 - 2012-12-06 10:42:31 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
That way the EVE Calculator would be offering something that the operating system's calculator would not offer.


Such as being able to open 15 instances at once?
Haifisch Zahne
Hraka Manufacture GmbH
#814 - 2012-12-06 10:50:29 UTC
Pure Rational Thought. Thank you. Gives renewed confidence in Man after having lost all and any with this expansion.

This should be the new CCP Bible. Lord knows, it will not.



Hardwick Johnson wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

I suppose the next "intelligent" CCP move is:
- remove calculator
- remove notepad
- remove calendar.

After all, the Operating System comes with a calculator and notepad, and we can always use Outlook for better calendars right?


This is true, but you forgot a few more:

  • Don't forget the browser, all OS's have one of those.
  • Oh and then there's the in-game mail. We all have email.
  • Eve Voice? Why the **** did you keep that CCP? TS and vent work just fine, right?
  • Don't even get me started on the in-game chat channels. Do they not have IRQ, AIM or Yahoo in Iceland?
  • A star map? I have a paper one, don't need no fancy-shmancy in game map sonny-boy.
  • And what's with this "assets" list. Ain't you boys ever heard of a pencil and a pad of paper?
  • People and places? I know who my friends are & I don't need you telling me where life has taken me or where to go sister!
  • A wallet? Please. Ever heard of Quicken?
  • A Journal? Seriously? What are we? A bunch of 14 year old girls with a crush and a bad case of teenaged angst?

CCP: All these fancy features can be had out of game, keeping them in game is a total waste of your programming skills..... Roll

If I wanted to suck up more bandwidth by streaming music, I would. If I liked flipping between diff programs when I wanted to hear a diff song, I would. Thanks for making things more difficult.


Now, getting to some other issues.

1st and foremost:
Jack' Sparrow, you're far too nice in your response to a DEV getting his panties in a twist.

  • CCP Explorer: Ref message 536, 705, 708 & 713, : How about not being a total jerk there Francis? You wanted feedback, you ASKED for feedback. So now you're getting it. If you don't like it, or don't want it, then why ask for it?

    • Jack made what a large number of fellow players consider to be a valid point: Pulling the jukebox was stupid.
    You shot back with a load of crap basically threatening future changes in response?
    If the legacy code is an issue: TAKE IT OUT AND THEN REPLACE IT WITH NEW CODE.

    You said "time that might be better spent on something else" Like what? More sounds we can't disable? Limiting HM's to a 20km range? Less drone HP to go with all the aggro?
    Your own Team Klang (great name for what most of the noises actually sound like, btw) DevBlog stated they thought it would be controversial. Boy is it ever. But now you don't want to hear about it. Try listening to your customers instead of defending a decision your team KNEW was going to be unpopular.



  • Heavy missiles pretty much suck now. You royally screwed them. Maxed out skills and less than 80km?? And explosion velocity less than an unladen African swallow? WTF, over? We can launch guided missiles through the atmosphere farther than EVE apparently can through the vacuum of space.....

    • If you only want Amarr/Winmatar battles, then get rid of the other races. Missiles are supposed to be the caldari mainstay, yet you nerf them to hell and gone. Same with the Frogs and their drones. Seriously: Just limit PvP to laser light shows and golden BB's if that's what you're going for....


  • Having to always turn off the safety after every session change? Seriously?? A little warning that you are exiting station with safety off would be one thing, but again: After EVERY session change? Coming to you live in fleet comms across New Eden: "Jump on contact, primary is _____, spread points, and don't forget to disengage your safeties"

  • Station sounds: Again, let me state this very clearly: YOUR STATION SOUNDS SUCK. Do you copy, over? Give us a way to mute them, and all the other annoying crap sounds you just added.

  • Salvaging a wreck sounds a lot like the Titanic hitting an iceberg. Did the world just freaking end or did I get a few rig parts?

  • Targeting rings and the RROD blobs. Can we shrink them down just a smidge? Like maybe to something a little smaller than a Brooklyn-style pizza maybe?

  • Overly loud kill sounds: Why do I hear these sounds through the void of space? But lets say it makes sense for a moment and consider this: His whole world just ended, not mine. You needn't turn my eardrums into bloody pulp for killing a ship 70km away with massively loud announcement. The purrty explosion did that just fine, thanks.




    • Tara Tyrael wrote:

    And yea, in case I forgot to mention it, here is solution what to do with FLAG buzzing noises.
    Take them and save them to memory stick, make an digital desk watch, put in 30 watt 12 inch speaker on it turned to max with amplifier, upload the sound, set it to go off 5 times randomly in one minute and put it in the same room whose idea was to make it in first place.

    Love it!


    Riazal wrote:
    why do you put really nice things in game like officer mods revenant/Titans... then kill ppl's isk making so they are allways going to be out of reach...


    The point? To make you buy a few PLEX. They're on sale now. Co-winkydink......?
    Ribikoka
    Royal Amarr Institute
    Amarr Empire
    #815 - 2012-12-06 10:52:56 UTC
    Remiel Pollard wrote:
    Nene Ryuseika wrote:
    I prolly wont be arsed with doing all the targeting just for the drones on the noctis..

    But well I thought hey at least salvage drones will be great on my proteus that goes out on itself scouting .. like for when I find a faction spawn. but alas.. ive been watching them salvage a Shadow Serpentis wreck now for 20 mintues. without even fail messages nothing


    Lil buggers are broke all round :P


    No, they're working as intended. Have you read their stats? What are your salvaging skills? Salvage drones are not intended to replace salvagers, and one drone with level 1 skill has only a 2% chance of successful salvage - on a Shadow (faction) wreck, that's as good as zero.



    Please post with your CCP character or HTFU. Thx bye.
    Ra Jackson
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #816 - 2012-12-06 11:00:37 UTC
    p4wl wrote:
    everything is nice and smooth from my perspective, other then jump drive sound.

    First time i undocked and jumped my JF i almost shat myself as the sound is so close to the old "shield/armor/structure hp low" emergency sound.

    Every single jump after first... i still get that split second "omg imma get fkd" feeling. After a second i know its just the new sound but it moves me too much anyway :>




    That is actually the new capacitor low warning sound.
    Ra Jackson
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #817 - 2012-12-06 11:01:27 UTC
    Remiel Pollard wrote:
    p4wl wrote:
    everything is nice and smooth from my perspective, other then jump drive sound.

    First time i undocked and jumped my JF i almost shat myself as the sound is so close to the old "shield/armor/structure hp low" emergency sound.

    Every single jump after first... i still get that split second "omg imma get fkd" feeling. After a second i know its just the new sound but it moves me too much anyway :>




    Don't worry, you get used to it. I quite like the new warp sounds, actually, that noise it makes coming out of warp is sort of like a little alarm to say "get ready, you're about to die".


    Would you actually bother to NOT post when you have nothing to contribute? All your posts in this thread are more or less nonsense dribble. Pretty please?
    Haifisch Zahne
    Hraka Manufacture GmbH
    #818 - 2012-12-06 11:03:39 UTC
    Apparently, CCP has mistaken two seemingly related concepts: Refactor and Least Common Denominator.

    The former is intended to make code better. The latter just dumbs-down code.

    Please, don't continue to confuse the two.
    Greygal
    Redemption Road
    Affirmative.
    #819 - 2012-12-06 11:08:28 UTC
    Dynamiittiukko wrote:
    - Retribution also introduced a hard-limit on the number of bookmark copies allowed over an unspecified period of time (copy them faster and you'll get an error message telling you to wait between 1-10 seconds before trying again)
    - The above-mentioned feature is broken - if you get the error message you can no longer copy any bookmarks anywhere until you relog


    Opening a can containing several hundred bookmarks is MUCH MUCH faster now - almost instantaneous. For this, I send many, many thanks to CCP! Previously it could take several minutes to open a can!

    However, as Dynamiitiukko mentioned above, there is some sort of weird timer action happening now when you COPY bookmarks, and it's damned frustrating. From what I am seeing, you cannot copy more than about 30 bookmarks every 60 seconds (and, of course, you still can only copy 5 bookmarks at a time). After moving 25 bookmarks, you get an annoying popup telling you to wait however many seconds it'll take till 60 seconds has passed.

    An example message:


    • You can't do this quite so fast. Please wait 37 seconds before trying again.


    After you get this message, the last 5 bookmarks you moved are NOT VISIBLE in the can. You have to close the can and reopen the can to see the most recent bookmarks moved. Also, you cannot re-open the can if it is still within that time frame noted in the pop-up (i.e., if I close the can within the above stated 37 seconds and then try to re-open it within that same 37 seconds, I'll get that pop-up again, telling me to wait XX amount of seconds)

    Copying a set of corp bookmarks for new members used to take me about 7 minutes per set... the set I just finished creating took me 22 minutes.

    VERY frustrating.

    What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

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    Jungleland Roy
    #820 - 2012-12-06 11:10:24 UTC

    New Drone AI. 2 important points to make.

    1) The NPC which originally used the new AI (eg WHs) were specifically designed for it. ie limited numbers of initial rats and only upon hitting triggers were new rats spawned. If you hit all the triggers…… well then enjoy and good luck. The old PVE content was specifically designed around the old AI - ie large numbers of stupid NPC which were selectively aggroed by hitting triggers or proximity or whatever. It is fundamentally flawed to take content that was designed around one AI and change the AI behaviour and then effectively say (to quote Hill Street Blues) "Be careful out there". Before the AI change was applied the relevant sites should have been redesigned as well. Huge task - absolutely no argument here - it would have been a ton of work. But if you are going to do something - do it right.

    2) I've seen a few posts from wh-ers and other smart people saying stuff like "learn to manage aggro" and "wh-ers have no problem dealing with it". There is an existing bug in the new AI programming which by launching drones, letting them take aggro, recalling, letting ship get aggro again then relaunching drones (or some such shenanigans) the drones will then NOT be targeted again. The same happens in Whs - with the right sequence (foxfour confirmed this). So the way to beat the AI is to utilise an existing bug which was knowingly released in this expansion. That says a lot about the design in that we are advised to use a known bug to overcome the new AI. Plus what is going to happen when this bug gets fixed?

    If your intention was to make PVE a fleet issue thing and that you basically want to push people away from solo play then come out and say it. At least then people can make their minds up about whether the game is moving away from what they get out of EVE and can consider their options accordingly.

    _if you could fly it before, you can fly it now. _ Read the Blog.