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No.....

If you dc while scrambled in a mission, then you're possibly screwed.
If you dc while PvE'ing, and someone is actually looking for you.... you're probably screwed...

But the two above cases aren't going to be the norm....

No....

I might be wrong on this, but this is my current understanding (need to test it):

If you take their stuff, you become a suspect. At that point in time, your wreck and all your jet cans should turn blue, meaning they are salvageable and takeable by everyone. This is because Everyone can legally shoot you, and you are free to loot from anyone you can legally shoot!

Don't flip the miner... just steal his goods, go suspect, and hope he shoots you....

or alternatively...

Steal his stuff, jettison it, then with an alt, move it from your blue container to a fresh new container.... Then, if the miner tries to take his stuff back, he'll go suspect and can be shot by EVERYONE.... It would take a very ignorant miner to do this, and they would need to have their safety off to boot.

And when I repair both sides of the LE?
In truth, I find the use of logistics in highsec typically "dirty", as it's a very "risk adverse" method of fighting. Especially give the fact that you should only have ONE Suspect shooting you at a time. I think, given the majorly disadvantaged position Suspects enter the fight in, that making it harder on highsec logistics is very fair....

Earlier (30 pages back), I proposed adding a Samaritan Flag.... where anytime you shoot a Suspect or Criminal, you gain a Samaritan Flag, which enabled ALL Suspects and Criminals to Legally attack you. Then logi's could inherit the Samaritan Flag by repping a Samaritan, or could inherit the Suspect Flag by repping a Suspect... and by setting the order of precedence, as Criminal > Suspect > Samaritan, we have a system that makes a lot of sense, is completely based on global flags, and is evenly balanced between Suspects and Samaritans... However, the biggest downside of the above system, is that a well organized gang of Suspects will often gain the advantage and crush a smattering of Samaritans, even when outnumbered. This is because Samaritans typically consist of passer-by, unorganized pilots, and since people can go Suspect on a second's notice, it's not very clear to the Samaritans what they are taking on prior to the engagement. In the end, there would be lots of surprise, a new party, to most engagements, and generally the most organized groups with friends would come out on top. CCP doesn't want this....

CCP wants Suspects to be at a disadvantage in highsec.... and the current mechanics BLATANTLY flaunt that. In the current mechanics, there are basically no viable Gangs of Suspects.... only viable Individuals (with logi backup). This is because a gang of Suspects can only fire back at ships that shoot them ALL first.... and since a competent gang of Samaritans will generally focus fire on one target at a time, generally speaking only one member in the Suspect gang can retaliate at a time. Essentially, this allows the Samaritans to form cohesive fighting gangs, while suspects are restricted to "individuals" (perhaps with logi backup).

I think that CCP dont intend to "balance" it beteen criminals. If you look at many MMORPGs they have multiple servers or instances where some of them allowing different level of PVP and such. many MMORPGs also offers the ability to download the server files to hos their own private servers.
This can not be done with EVE Online. the only reason why EVE is such a vast game is because of that they run the New Eden gameworld on tranquility, a cluster of servers. and if im not wrong they posess the largest cluster of computer hosting a virtual world on. If they were to allow PVP with the same criterias then they may loose a large part of their subscribers because some games dont like PVP and some do. CONCORD, Empire space, Crimewatch, Security status it all works to serve that purpous to facilitate the need for the absense of PVP aswell as the existence from PVP all in one world without loosing half of their player base.

It is not supose to be easy for people to PVP anyone they want in high-sec its designed that way. we player can ofcourse nudge CCP with CSM and the forum but in the end this is a component of EVE that if they didnt balance PVP vs No-PVP instead of balancing the PVP in areas PVP should be low, EVE would be as vast as it is. People seeking PVP can find in RvB or in Null, wormholes and lowsec or just war-dec people.

Your keyboard seems to be missing some keys. Maybe you should fix that before posting?

Grizznitt Malikite,

It seems that you continue to miss one key element of the proposed mechanism. That is, when Pilot C provides logistics support to Pilot B, he would acquire flags for Weapons, PVP, and LE, just like he would if he had instead fired upon Pilot A. Thus, Pilot C has made exactly the same "declaration" as you put it in either case. In no event is "C" providing such logistics support to "B" any more or less sneaky or underhanded than "C" shooting "A."

With respect to your Five Pilot example, just replace any repairing of Pilot B (Vigilante) by Pilot C with Pilot C instead attacking Pilot A (Bad Guy) directly. Thus, if "A" is no longer a "Suspect" or "Criminal" and Pilot C has no current LE with respect to Pilot A at that moment, then Pilot C could neither attack "A" nor repair "B" without becoming "Suspect" himself.
Each logistics pilot could be given a warning (if the safety is not off) that he is about to enter into a new LE with a party when repairing the counterparty to an LE. Thus repairing the other side of an engagement would provide a new warning. If the second logi pilot ("D") ignores it, and acquires a second LE, the first logi pilot ("C") would then also get a warning when he started repairing the second logi pilot.

All LE timers would run down for logistics the same as they run down for shooters. I expect each pairing of cross-shooters in a small gang vs. small gang consisting of only shooters would have to track timers for each exchange. It should be no more burdensome to track this for logistics PVPers.

When I fly Logistics for public incursion fleets, before entering the combat zone, I like to test rep each logi ship as a minimum and, for smaller fleets each member as well. Prior to entering combat is a good time to sort out how the fleet wants to deal with unannounced war targets and criminals. The same would apply for LEs under the proposed scheme. Many incursion fleets will not rep unannounced war targets, to protect against AWOXing similar to what you mention. The same could apply for LEs. If at the very least Logis have test repaired each other and key pilots such as an anchor, then the risks are mitigated.

You still ewarp with new changes, you just don't vanish.

Can't wait to fry some uncooked bacon.

In the situation you described above: A neutral corp of logi pilots attempt to save an Orca or Freighter from a suicide gank by repping the targeted ship.... Those logi pilots will NOT go suspect unless either that Orca/Freighter is a Legal Target for the gankers, or unless that Ocra/Freighter enter's a Limited Engagement with the suicide gankers. Since a Freighter doesn't have weapons, nor the ability to lock, a Freighter can NEVER enter an LE. The Orca, unless it attacks back, will also NOT be a member of an LE. As such, your logistics are completely safe while repairing that Orca/Freighter until the Orca stupidly shoots back. Then, if those logi's have their safeties set to green, when the inevitably dumb Orca Pilot does shoot back, those reps end and your logies are still safe.

Really, you want it easier for logies to Rep a COMBAT ship without going suspect, not industrials. A combat ship will return fire on the suspect, creating the LE, and thereby causing your logies to "go Suspect" if they repair that combat ship while it fights the Suspect.



I can abuse your system of Transferable LE's. Imagine you are a corp of Neutral Logi's that like to help out Industrials traveling through Niarja. I have an Itty V come through the gate, and attempt to warp off. Suddenly a Suspect lands on Grid, and opens fire on the Itteron, and gets "criminally" flagged. You attempt to apply reps to the Itteron, and a popup asks if you are willing to have the LE extended to you.

A.) You Accept... Suddenly, you gain a Weapons and LE timer from repping the Itteron. Additionally, a Bhaalgorn and 2x Vindicators that were on the other side of the gate enter system, lock up your logistics ships, and destroy them. You can't escape through the gate because you have a Weapons timer from repping the Orca. Why did this happen?
--- Because the Iteron Pilot Twisted your transferable LE's to end up on BOTH sides of the LE, while carefully avoiding the Suspect Flag (as outlined in earlier posts). Once you repaired the Itteron, you gained the LE from BOTH sides, so when the two BS's enter system, they activate Remote Sensor boosting modules on the Itteron, inheriting both sides of the LE, and gaining the ability to Legally shoot your logistics. This is a loophole in your system... and I'm sure there are other creative ways to exploit it.

B.) You decline... If you're going to decline anyway, why are we having this discussion? The current discussion is on allowing LE to transfer to logis.

In short... enough of the lets repair Industrial Ships like a good old boy... That's not relevant because Industrial Ships shouldn't be in an LE in the first place... and if they are, something fishy is going on!!!

What I really think you are asking for, is a method to allow your logistics ships in to repair your buddy that's engaging a Suspect.
A.) This already exists. Just shoot the suspect first.
B.) What is the point in you bringing in logistics rather than +1 DPS?
-- To give the Suspect an embarrassing loss mail? Noobship destroys Tornado (even though it had logi reps).
-- To prevent all your losses? A single ship has a VERY hard time destroying an opponent through logi reps... and it's not like the bait ship will be a target for a bunch of suspects... they will be the target of ONE suspect. Furthermore, since EVERYONE can shoot them, I see no NEED to further imbalance the stakes against the suspect.
C.) Bring a Falcon Instead....