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EVE Online: Retribution 1.0 Feedback

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Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
#181 - 2012-12-04 18:35:47 UTC
Spc One wrote:
What patch notes don't tell you:

EXPANSION ABOUT NERFS, Because Missiles were ok for 6 years now but now they're overpowered.

a.) PVE

1. All missile ships are now obsolete (very low range and decreased damage)
2. All Drone ships are now obsolete due to new AI (your drones get targeted as soon as you deploy them)
3. All ships that rely on drones for protection against frigates are obsolete
4. NPC's tracking disruptor now affects optimal range and falloff instead of just optimal range, which makes 800mm's minmatar ships obsolete in pve.
5. All npc complexes and ark missions are now insanely hard to do, you can't use drones
6. There are only few ships that can save you from mission if you loose all of your drones and get stuck (scrambled with npc agression).
7. New meta 9 - 14 drone modules are obsolete for pve, since ai will always shoot your drones.
8. If you use marauders or other ships for guristas missions you'll get perma jammed, there's nothing you can do since you can't use drones.

b). PVP
1. All Heavy Missile ships are now obsolete
2. Drake is worst battlecruiser for pvp
3. Hurricane got nerfed so it is kinda useless now
4. Tengu now sucks compared to other t-3's
5. Very hard to gank someone ratting in low sec or 0.0 with stealth bombers or frigate since npc's will switch targets



I respect your opinion but i also would like to put a different light on it here as well.

PVE
I think missions and k-space plexes were way to easy compared to the effort/risk/attention vs reward you got there. Especially when you compare it to sleeper sites in w-space.

PVE
Heavy Missiles and Drake and Hurricane re-balancing are certainly going the right way. At least from a pvp point of view. We will have to see if there is some fine tuning needed but it is for sure the right way. One could hold against you that before the re-balancing any other battlecruiser beside the hurricane and the drake were pretty much useless looking at their stats (tank vs dps/range and utility in case of the hurricane).

For my part its a big thumbs up on that balancing!!!
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#182 - 2012-12-04 18:38:03 UTC
Arch Convivitor wrote:
Exer Toralen wrote:
1. Why letting everyone place bounties on everyone? After some time we will have everyone marked as "Wanted" because it is cheap thing to be done and because there are a lot of jerks (check Jita). Limit bounty placing to people that have kill rights or somehow suffered from actions of person that is getting price on his/her head.



Lol - after a month of peaceful high-sec mining I now have a 1.000,000 isk bounty on my head and a big red "wanted" tag on my char info - apparently because my name begins with 'A'



Because CCP:

- Did not put limits on the number of outstanding bounties that any one person can create at the same time. You know, like it works for the contract system where you can only place N contracts until you train up a skill that opens up more slots.

- Did not put an expiration date on bounties. Even though if you can get your target to quit paying for 5 months, the bounty expires.

- Passed up the chance to introduce another ISK sink in the form of fees (100k for a personal bounty, 1M for a corp bounty, 10M for an alliance bounty) or taxes (a 3-10% tax on the total bounty amount). Which means come fan fest, they're going to be crying to us again about how the economy is still inflating because the ISK sinks are out of balance with the ISK faucets.

- If your target quits the game or you can get the target corp/alliance to disband, you get all your ISK back and get to play again. Again, CCP passes up the chance of an ISK sink by refunding 100% of what is left, rather then refunding only a partial amount (90% or so).

- Passed up the option to allow for higher fees / taxes on bounties where you want to place it anonymously.
Angelica Scatterbrain
WH United
#183 - 2012-12-04 18:39:56 UTC
Galmas wrote:
[quote=Spc One]What patch notes don't tell you:



Heavy Missiles and Drake and Hurricane re-balancing are certainly going the right way. At least from a pvp point of view.

For my part its a big thumbs up on that balancing!!!



So what you're saying is that you have been raped by drake fleets and you want mommy to fix it for you.
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
#184 - 2012-12-04 18:40:37 UTC
nesdaq wrote:
Insta agro (10 sec)from rats. Fun if you're in a BS/ orca/ freighter jumping around and have jamming rats Shocked (and not mention the 5min. timer every time)


Is it really still 10 seconds? Make it really insta please! Hardcore game play rules!
Matham Gwynne
Rocky Mountain Twins
#185 - 2012-12-04 18:42:27 UTC
Just tried flying my Rattlesnake on an L4 mission. Rats started popping drones as soon as I let the drones out of the bay. Level V Drone Durability, Light Drones vs Frigates. Took about 1 second for the first drone to be into its structure.

Essentially, new AI renders Rattlesnake useless as a mission ship. Not sure what else it was ever meant for, but I hope it's useful for whatever that might be.

I'll wait till it looks like drone boats are potentially useful in PvE again, then try again. Loved the Rattlesnake up till this morning.

I don't mind losing a drone occassionally. Happens. But if I'm going to lose one ever few seconds, before they can even get into engagement range with their targets, that's going to get expensive fast.

Read the dev blog about losing 2 or 3 in several missions. Doesn't match my experience this AM.
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#186 - 2012-12-04 18:46:59 UTC
Matham Gwynne wrote:


Essentially, new AI renders Rattlesnake useless as a mission ship. Not sure what else it was ever meant for, but I hope it's useful for whatever that might be.

I'll wait till it looks like drone boats are potentially useful in PvE again, then try again. Loved the Rattlesnake up till this morning.

Read the dev blog about losing 2 or 3 in several missions. Doesn't match my experience this AM.


The drone hate is an issue they have known about for some time, yet they still felt in necesarry to push the new AI regardless with the hopes of finding a fix down the road. Irresponsible, as the rats were not "broken" before, just wimpy...

Also, to CCP...

Your new awesomely "persistant" Inventory windows...where did they go? They seem to have lost all persistance between Bucky last week and TQ today???

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
Riker Atros
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#187 - 2012-12-04 18:48:49 UTC
Spc One wrote:
Shadowschild wrote:
Why do I get the sinking feeling my dominix with

1) heavy drones on BS targets orbiting 30km just became useless.
2) Heavy maintenance bots for ded complexes just became useless or annoying to oversee.

Can anyone comment on the new AI changes with this setup?

It took a long ass time to train heavy drones man, they should have boosted the speed or something


i did here:
Spc One wrote:
What patch notes don't tell you:

EXPANSION ABOUT NERFS, Because Missiles were ok for 6 years now but now they're overpowered.

a.) PVE

1. All missile ships are now obsolete (very low range and decreased damage)
2. All Drone ships are now obsolete due to new AI (your drones get targeted as soon as you deploy them)
3. All ships that rely on drones for protection against frigates are obsolete
4. NPC's tracking disruptor now affects optimal range and falloff instead of just optimal range, which makes 800mm's minmatar ships obsolete in pve.
5. All npc complexes and ark missions are now insanely hard to do, you can't use drones
6. There are only few ships that can save you from mission if you loose all of your drones and get stuck (scrambled with npc agression).
7. New meta 9 - 14 drone modules are obsolete for pve, since ai will always shoot your drones.
8. If you use marauders or other ships for guristas missions you'll get perma jammed, there's nothing you can do since you can't use drones.

b). PVP
1. All Heavy Missile ships are now obsolete
2. Drake is worst battlecruiser for pvp
3. Hurricane got nerfed so it is kinda useless now
4. Tengu now sucks compared to other t-3's
5. Very hard to gank someone ratting in low sec or 0.0 with stealth bombers or frigate since npc's will switch targets







Quote:

5. Very hard to gank someone ratting in low sec or 0.0 with stealth bombers or frigate since npc's will switch targets


read that last part number 5



GOOD.
ArmEagle Kusoni
Knights of Nii
The 20 Minuters
#188 - 2012-12-04 18:48:55 UTC
Silver Coon wrote:
I really don't like that now when I use the scroll wheel in the market for modifying prices, I HAVE to be with the cursor over the price box for it to work. (PC)

No, no, you don't understand it. That's the most awesome change they've made in all their patches ever. Death to the Microsoft Windows style of scroll-to-focus! GO the Linux way!

Though I'd be happy for it to be a config option to keep everyone happy Big smile.
Glarbl Blarbl
Orion-Glarbl Mining Bureau
#189 - 2012-12-04 18:50:17 UTC
First off, I want to congratulate the Devs on pulling off a very ambitious expansion which runs on my hackintosh on day one! :D

I LOVE the new sounds! (now if i could only figure out why Eve has never recognized my mackie onyx blackbird as a place to send audio on the mac...) Also I am so happy that I don't have to give a window focus to scroll it anymore, YAY!! The target reticules look awesome :) Loving compact mode for market deliveries and the new streamlined repair dialog.

Some things I think should be tweaked: Make it so i can move the damage notifications around, as it is I'm spending a lot of time moving my camera so i can see the notifications and the action at the same time; Market deliveries doesn't remember that I want it open in the bottom-right corner every time I dock; (This doesn't belong here, but since I'm talking about tweaks) the mission status in the HUD should have the mission title in red while the objective is uncompleted and then turn green when it is.

That's all I've got for now. Thanks for all your hard work, guys :)
Steijn
Quay Industries
#190 - 2012-12-04 18:51:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Steijn
unless you use a sentry drone boat, i wouldnt bother with drone boats in missions from now on.
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
#191 - 2012-12-04 18:52:43 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Colonial Burton wrote:


But then they shoot the drones, so you recall them, then how are you supposed to have them engage the target once you re-launch them? They won't auto-attack until something new shoots the host ship, or if you can lock onto something, which you can't, because your damped to hell and back.


Le sigh - would you like me to come and do your mission for you?

Maybe all this means is you can't fly lvl4s solo anymore. What a shame.


LVL4 missions as teamwork?

OMG how sweet would that be!!!
Steijn
Quay Industries
#192 - 2012-12-04 18:53:35 UTC
Glarbl Blarbl wrote:
First off, I want to congratulate the Devs on pulling off a very ambitious expansion which runs on my hackintosh on day one! :D

I LOVE the new sounds! (now if i could only figure out why Eve has never recognized my mackie onyx blackbird as a place to send audio on the mac...) Also I am so happy that I don't have to give a window focus to scroll it anymore, YAY!! The target reticules look awesome :) Loving compact mode for market deliveries and the new streamlined repair dialog.

Some things I think should be tweaked: Make it so i can move the damage notifications around, as it is I'm spending a lot of time moving my camera so i can see the notifications and the action at the same time; Market deliveries doesn't remember that I want it open in the bottom-right corner every time I dock; (This doesn't belong here, but since I'm talking about tweaks) the mission status in the HUD should have the mission title in red while the objective is uncompleted and then turn green when it is.

That's all I've got for now. Thanks for all your hard work, guys :)





u can move the dmg notificatiions, from the notification/log window
ArmEagle Kusoni
Knights of Nii
The 20 Minuters
#193 - 2012-12-04 18:53:38 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Hauntable wrote:
Silver Coon wrote:
I really don't like that now when I use the scroll wheel in the market for modifying prices, I HAVE to be with the cursor over the price box for it to work. (PC)


Xilael wrote:
Who the f... changed the mousewheel settings so that it scrolls in the current window instead of the highlighted box?

Makes adjusting prices so slow...


"Scroll bars become active once the user hovers the area of their function which applies to both windows and tabs within windows"

This is a not a good change. Requires you to constantly move your mouse to the window/text box you want to scroll or you can end up scrolling a window in the background.


It is a common feature in recent interfaces to only need to intersect the area you want to control with the mouse without the need to click it first. It also allows you to be able to control that area in more ways like moving items and scrolling at the same time as mentioned above. We realize this is a change to how EVE used to be but we are quite sure it is the way we would do it if we were releasing EVE for the first time today and this change is part of updating the EVE UI so that it can keep evolving to meet the needs of the majority of our players.

Ok, you made it sound much better than I did :)
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#194 - 2012-12-04 18:54:59 UTC
Matham Gwynne wrote:
Just tried flying my Rattlesnake on an L4 mission. Rats started popping drones as soon as I let the drones out of the bay. Level V Drone Durability, Light Drones vs Frigates. Took about 1 second for the first drone to be into its structure.

Essentially, new AI renders Rattlesnake useless as a mission ship. Not sure what else it was ever meant for, but I hope it's useful for whatever that might be.

I'll wait till it looks like drone boats are potentially useful in PvE again, then try again. Loved the Rattlesnake up till this morning.

I don't mind losing a drone occassionally. Happens. But if I'm going to lose one ever few seconds, before they can even get into engagement range with their targets, that's going to get expensive fast.

Read the dev blog about losing 2 or 3 in several missions. Doesn't match my experience this AM.


/me Note to self: go short on all drone and missile hulls
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
#195 - 2012-12-04 18:55:05 UTC
Tirreal wrote:
OK ,

Hurricane, why was the PG reduced? never realy saw why. now, with a 4% pg implant, I cann't use my pvp neut fit. max pg skills
and can I get a refund on the drake I just bought? lol


so the re-balancing actually worked!!!
Xavier Linx
Omni Research
#196 - 2012-12-04 18:57:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavier Linx
The nerf to Drake was expected, I'm just surprised it took so long for it to happen.

Seems like missile change thing was just half-done, though. The Nighthawk and the Cerb are now even more useless. New is that it's impossible ti run even simple level 4s in a Tengu any more. As always 'impossible' only means you need a full Estamel fit to have a chance without rewarping umpteen times.


Well guys, It's time to jump into the Amarr boats and go kill some of those new sitting ducks in 0.0!

Edit: This is possibly the biggest patch for FiS in years, keep up the good work! As long as I don't see any more idiotic NeX store I'm happy (Yes, I can see you hiding back there, Hilmar!).
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
#197 - 2012-12-04 18:57:56 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
The people who spend their time adjusting their market orders by 0.01 ISK every hour are obviously fond of torture, so why not torture them a little more?



This!!!!
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#198 - 2012-12-04 19:01:16 UTC
Matham Gwynne wrote:
Just tried flying my Rattlesnake on an L4 mission. Rats started popping drones as soon as I let the drones out of the bay. Level V Drone Durability, Light Drones vs Frigates. Took about 1 second for the first drone to be into its structure.

Essentially, new AI renders Rattlesnake useless as a mission ship. Not sure what else it was ever meant for, but I hope it's useful for whatever that might be.

I'll wait till it looks like drone boats are potentially useful in PvE again, then try again. Loved the Rattlesnake up till this morning.

I don't mind losing a drone occassionally. Happens. But if I'm going to lose one ever few seconds, before they can even get into engagement range with their targets, that's going to get expensive fast.

Read the dev blog about losing 2 or 3 in several missions. Doesn't match my experience this AM.

My primary missioning ship is also a Rattlesnake.

This change affects a lot more than just missions. Incursions should be affected too.

I remember someone saying that if you use drones in wormholes, you need to use T1 and bring LOTS of spares. Is that what it's gonna come down to? T1 level DPS and a drone bay crammed with spares? Thinking of drones as expensive consumable ammo ?

I'll play with this some more, but I'm thinking I'll be flying my Machariel from now on. In all practicality, it seems like drones have been obsoleted, which makes the new drone mods a seriously odd addition. What is alos odd is that gate guns don't shoot at drones, but ratz seek them with high priority. I'm not getting the underlying rationale.
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
#199 - 2012-12-04 19:02:06 UTC
Ohto Pach wrote:
There's a really annoying high pitched screech that plays apparently whenever something that starts a timer of some sorts happens. Whenever you shoot a rat, jump a gate or undock etc. there's the sound. I could live without the 5 second countdown sounds when a timer is running out, too.

I'm not quite sure if this is the correct thread for this but apparently this is intended behaviour so I posted this in here intead of the "EVE Online: Retribution 1.0 Issues" thread.



Sorry for spamming but i really have to stress that topic. Please make it optional instead of mandatory or turn it off again.
Coyote Reach
Perkone
Caldari State
#200 - 2012-12-04 19:04:42 UTC
Expansion rolled out pretty smooth from all had the opportunity i've had to interact with so far.

Drones are my issue. The AI seems to be excessively violent against them. Its like a shortbus full of overweight 3rd graders are unleashed on confetti cake. I typically run level V's with Sentries or when lazy i use a carrier. I'd heard drones would be fair targets coming up in next patches so was expecting some of this but not too worried about repping them in space etc. The big thing is the degree of hate the AI has for them. When my fighters start going down they go down pretty hard so i need to really be on the ball to get the fighter back in range /lock / rep/scan for more fighters dying/send repped fighter back to target /recall new injured fighter to range/ all the while dscanning. Its fun dont get me wrong but godamn.
My sentries are taking quite a pounding as well, have to be extremely careful almost to the point of them not being useful at all. If lights are out taking care of the smaller scramble frigates...well.. finger needs to be on the recall button within seconds of them getting aggro.

I'm not whining , not yet. But gg to those who build drones.