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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Support from Concord needed.

Author
Sinn Moriarty
Black Market Industrial
#41 - 2012-11-25 18:45:33 UTC
The simplest fix i can think of around this is to add gates to cercomvent the systems that are being ganked. Or Let us use JF in hisec, but that would cause more problems than it would fix.* Shutters at the thought of a hot drop gank.*
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#42 - 2012-11-25 18:58:17 UTC
Sinn Moriarty wrote:
The simplest fix i can think of around this is to add gates to cercomvent the systems that are being ganked.
Sure, but fix to what problem?
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#43 - 2012-11-25 19:12:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
why is there any change in this game?
Because it provides tangible improvements to gameplay and/or balance.

None of that seems to be present here.


your opinion.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#44 - 2012-11-25 19:31:03 UTC
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
your opinion.
Not really, no.

You're only saying that something should happen. There is no reasoning why. This is not a matter of opinion, but of fact.

Answering the question of “why” means detailing the problem you're trying to solve — why it's a problem and why it needs to be solved. It means explaining your solution in full, both in terms of how it will actually serve to solve the problem and what the consequences will be. You also need to argue why the good consequences are enough to outweigh the bad consequences.

Again, none of that is present — just a lot of “I want” or “it should” with no reasoning behind it.
Zwo Zateki
Doomheim
#45 - 2012-11-25 20:59:27 UTC
Endless goon ganking needs to stop. NOW.

Supported.

http://cvmkr.com/R4JG

Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#46 - 2012-11-25 22:45:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
your opinion.
Not really, no.

You're only saying that something should happen. There is no reasoning why. This is not a matter of opinion, but of fact.

Answering the question of “why” means detailing the problem you're trying to solve — why it's a problem and why it needs to be solved. It means explaining your solution in full, both in terms of how it will actually serve to solve the problem and what the consequences will be. You also need to argue why the good consequences are enough to outweigh the bad consequences.

Again, none of that is present — just a lot of “I want” or “it should” with no reasoning behind it.


well, first, I don't know where you saw a problem.

This section is call "Features & Ideas Discussion"

so, i'm proposing a new feature, that already got improved by others. A feature that would modify the game in a way that it'll be more "realistic", that will present a challenge to gankers, and that will spread the risk among every system, pushing the gankers & the victims to change their habbits.

if you don't like my ideas, and are just saying no, then fine, say no, and stay out of my threads.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#47 - 2012-11-25 22:58:45 UTC
Zwo Zateki wrote:
Endless goon ganking needs to stop. NOW.
Why?

Red Frog Rufen wrote:
well, first, I don't know where you saw a problem.
Nowhere. That's the problem. You're suggesting a change for no reason. It's not a new feature — it's a game balancing change, and those don't come out of nowhere. They need a reason to be implemented (as do all changes and additions).

Quote:
so, i'm proposing a new feature, that already got improved by others. A feature that would modify the game in a way that it'll be more "realistic", that will present a challenge to gankers, and that will spread the risk among every system, pushing the gankers & the victims to change their habbits.
…and the question is still why this is needed.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#48 - 2012-11-25 23:28:02 UTC
Zwo Zateki wrote:
HURRRR THE EVUL GOONIES ARE HAVING FUN IN A GAME



Ganking has always and will always be part of EVE. Deal w/it.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#49 - 2012-11-25 23:41:55 UTC
We should be able to upgrade security status with loyalty points

No im just kidding. But instead of just changing the sec status they should think about incoporating the players on this and making an actual game mechanic. Perhaps there should be some way of upgrading a systems sec status. Perhaps.

o/

Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#50 - 2012-11-26 00:15:28 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Zwo Zateki wrote:
HURRRR THE EVUL GOONIES ARE HAVING FUN IN A GAME



Ganking has always and will always be part of EVE. Deal w/it.


where do I suggest anything to stop the ganking?

Souisa wrote:
We should be able to upgrade security status with loyalty points

No im just kidding. But instead of just changing the sec status they should think about incoporating the players on this and making an actual game mechanic. Perhaps there should be some way of upgrading a systems sec status. Perhaps.


interesting idea!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#51 - 2012-11-26 00:43:52 UTC
Red Frog Rufen wrote:
where do I suggest anything to stop the ganking?
Is your name Zwo Zateki?

Quote:
interesting idea!
How would you decrease it?
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#52 - 2012-11-26 00:50:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ocih
Tippia wrote:
Sinn Moriarty wrote:
The simplest fix i can think of around this is to add gates to cercomvent the systems that are being ganked.
Sure, but fix to what problem?


Shooting fish in a barrel.
Choke points have always been the biggest road block in EVE.

JF and JB are examples of solutions and everyone who used choke points hate them with a passion.
Mirima Thurander
#53 - 2012-11-26 01:20:22 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Obviously, both systems should be changed.

Into lowsec.



Yes please.

divide ALL empire space by lowsec gaps.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#54 - 2012-11-26 11:59:05 UTC
Ocih wrote:
Shooting fish in a barrel.
Choke points have always been the biggest road block in EVE.
Yes, and neither of those are problems. Quite the opposite: they're solutions to the problems of making it too easy to dodge enemy patrols.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-11-26 12:43:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Loads of posts opposing it.

Not many with a reason that I could see.

So - why do people not support removal/reduction in bottlenecks?



I know the answer, of course, but you can at least be honest about it people Blink

I know, it's heresy to suggest you might need to do more work for your ganks.
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2012-11-26 19:31:25 UTC
Red Frog Rufen wrote:


well, first, I don't know where you saw a problem.

This section is call "Features & Ideas Discussion"

so, i'm proposing a new feature, that already got improved by others. A feature that would modify the game in a way that it'll be more "realistic", that will present a challenge to gankers, and that will spread the risk among every system, pushing the gankers & the victims to change their habbits.

if you don't like my ideas, and are just saying no, then fine, say no, and stay out of my threads.


As mentioned by others, a new feature just for the sake of a new feature is silly.

You need to be solving some concrete PROBLEM or GAP in the gameplay with a new feature. Otherwise it's just wasted effort and pointless. I see neither here.

Ganking freighters is not a problem at all, because it's already strongly tilted in favor of the freighters, not the gankers. One freighter pilot requires half a dozen gankers at least, and with every additional escort to the freighter pilot, you need an additional several gankers. Thus, freighter pilots have a huge, unbalanced advantage, if anything, in manpower required to win the contest and travel safely, and pirates have a huge disadvantage, if anything.

Nor is there a gap in gameplay potential. You haven't made any argument for actual additional FUN that would be introduced by your idea that is not available in the game already.

No problem + no gap = no feature needed, period.

Quote:
No im just kidding. But instead of just changing the sec status they should think about incoporating the players on this and making an actual game mechanic. Perhaps there should be some way of upgrading a systems sec status. Perhaps.

This actually does address a problem in gameplay, potentially. But it's not ganking. It is stagnation. It would make alliance blocs more interesting and less static, and it would make both piracy and hauling more interesting if people had some way to strategically adjust the security status of systems in EITHER direction.

If we imagine CONCORD has a fixed pool of resources, then people could vote, for instance (one vote per activated/paid account) on where those resources should be allocated. With certain restrictions. For instance, security status of a system can only be a limited amount different than its neighbors, and security status can only change by 0.1 points per week, etc.

Every person could be allowed to vote on any number of systems, with either a +0.1 or a -0.1 vote, within the restricted rules (like those above), and their total votes have to add up to 0. At the end of each week, systems are adjusted based

Meh, ill just make a new thread, come to think of it.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2012-11-26 22:18:02 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Loads of posts opposing it.

Not many with a reason that I could see.

So - why do people not support removal/reduction in bottlenecks?



I know the answer, of course, but you can at least be honest about it people Blink

I know, it's heresy to suggest you might need to do more work for your ganks.



I've lost more to gankers than I've ganked, and I still think it's a terrible idea.
Sinn Moriarty
Black Market Industrial
#58 - 2012-11-26 23:37:36 UTC
How about this. Raise the sec status so us freighter pilots have a fighting chance. WHY? because we are in essence deffenseless. Yes would could not go through that system, but miners could not mine in lowsec, it still happens. It's not like we can ecm, shoot back, rep, we just sit and die. I have seen more Tornados in Udedma than in Oklahahoma. the only defense we have against this is EHP, but as the KB's show can be taken down under the Concord response time. I honestly dont care about the ganking, i really don't. but i'm flying a hull, thats it, give me chance to get out in structure at least. or give me the option to go around the system thats not in low sec. At least in Null/low sec i have a chance to escape a gate camp in a smaller ship, or i lose a cyno alt. But absolultly cannot in a freighter.

Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-11-26 23:50:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimeo Khamsi
Quote:
It's not like we can ecm, shoot back, rep, we just sit and die.

Yes, actually it IS EXACTLY like you can do that.

It's called an "escort." You get friends to follow you and remote rep you, shoot other people for you, jam people's ECM, etc. There are entire CLASSES of ships devoted precisely to doing this sort of thing that you are basically saying is impossible.



No ONE person can gank a freighter in CONCORD space. It's not possible. There need to be at least a half dozen or so people to take down your freighter. Thus, it is entirely reasonable for you to ALSO require half a dozen friends in order to fully protect yourself from that ganking.

What you're saying is basically "I want to be able to play by myself and yet somehow be stronger than 6 other people all working together." Why should you be able to do that? As far as I'm concerned, it SHOULD take approximately 6 people to defend fairly against 6 people. Or possibly a slight advantage in favor of the defenders (to make up for element of surprise, etc.). Let's say 3 vs. 6 would be fair.

Right now, with 2 escorts, you could EASILY defend your freighter versus a team of 6 gankers. So right now, it is balanced just fine, and fair.
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#60 - 2012-11-27 00:51:07 UTC
please, tell us, how in 10 (often less) seconds you can defend a ship. you can't even target it that fast, and eve if you can, you can't attack them until they shot their first volley, and then it's too late, the freighter is gone.

please tell us, once you start getting bumped, you're going to align and warp, against 2 mach, even with 5 friends. even with a webber, that's still really hard to do.

anyway, again, we're deviating the thread from "please change the way sec. status works" to "you need an escort for that freighter!!"