EVE General Discussion

Keep the thread about FW.

Not everything has to be about PL and supercaps



Fix FW is easy.
Give us something to fight for.

Make the plex rats uniform. Same damage type, same tracking, same resistances (remove missiles, have the Caldari ships use railguns instead). If the rats use ewar make them use all forms of Ewar, not exclusive to a faction. Because ECM is broken.

If you make the plex rats like Sansha rats, you'll fix the plexing imbalance. Use their AI while at it too its very good.

Basically what I'm asking you is this:

FW plex rats:

1)Do omni damage and omni tank.
2)They use all forms of EWAR.
3)Become harder.
4)Smarter.

A frigate should not be able to solo anything other than a minor. Maybe if you add some really mean elite frigate spawns that would even make a faction frigate run for its life it would be very nice.

All that would change in the ships is the graphical effects of the guns. Amarr ships would still fire lasers but they'd to the same omni damage as an example.

Basically every navy rat would have an absolute equal on the other navies. Only cosmetics remain unique.


And you'll fix plexing as of its current state.

The issue most of us lowsec people have is that super capitals are the ultimate weapon. You cannot build them without sov and you cannot get sov without them. You're only option to get them is to join an existing power block.

That being said, what frustrates most people is that a bored 0.0 alliance can come down to lowsec, stomp on people, and head home with no worries about leaving themselves vulnerable at home. If a 0.0 alliance wants to come to lowsec to live for a bit and stomp people (ie PL right now), well that sucks for lowsec folks but that is Eve.

To give a flawed RL example, this is a bit like Russia and China being involved in a massive land war. Then China says, gee morale is not very good right now and Russia isn't going to attack us until tomorrow. Hmmm, let's redeploy all my troops, tanks, plane, warships over to Haiti to curb stomp them and then be home before Russia can react.

IMHO, this needs to be addressed somehow. Some people suggest banning supers from lowsec. This is Eve, a bigger group should always be permitted via game mechanics to curb stomp a smaller entity but they shouldn't be able to do it because they have nothing better to do and it doesn't cost them anything.



Anyway, a few other random thoughts on FW:

-Fix the remote rep to -5 causes faction loss. I see the reason for the faction hit for repping GCC (ie keep Militia's from being pirates), but there is no reason for the just being -5 or lower.

-We all agree that we should have some reason to take space, but be real careful that it doesn't give an advantage that makes it that much harder for the losing side to make a come back (ie denying docking rights, sentry guns, etc). Maybe start with free offices for militia that holds occupancy?

-Leave highsec alone, but do something about the permanent faction hits that can occur. People won't want to try Gallente FW if they may be permanently banned from Jita. (And no, grinding missions for months with the latest level 1 change isn't enough).

-I actually like having alliances in FW so long as they cannot hold sov at the same time. Those Alliances are already involved, so its really not changing much. Maybe set some really high (ie 5 or 6) average standing requirements.

-Combine missions and plexes. Make the rewards (ie LP) stay like missions are today. Get rid of VP and make everything LP. Have them spawn like missions do today (ie you go to an agent, and he spawns a plex in some system using some CCP algorithm to throttle how fast systems can be made vulnerable). Let the mechanics inside the mission/plex function as plexs do today except get rid of the NPCs inside (or at a minimum balance the faction NPCs).

-Make it so pirate faction ships count as T2 for plexs/missions.

-I can foresee an impact to FW with the destructible customs stations. I would REALLY like to see them have some sort of rate-limited damage that can be taken. In other words, limit the amount of damage that can be applied to them over a given unit of time (ie 1 minute) so it alwys takes at least X time to kill them. Make it so this time is reasonable with decent small gang, but long enough so the 0.0 SC fleets will not want to roll through every single custom station in the game. Make them for small gangs, no matter how many people are shooting it it will always take at least X time to reinforce.

-Don't do any of the silly ideas about electing a central militia leader. FW is for the unorganized, relatively low drama, and relatively low politics. If you want grandiose politics and intrigue, then go to 0.0.

-Add regular T1 ships to the faction LP stores. It would help with supply lines and lower the cost of low end FW pew-pew. Maybe this can be tied to occupancy?

First: We're not here because we're bored, we're here because Amamake is in basically the center of EVE, and the fact that 0.0 isn't worth owning right now. If it was, we'd own it. The fact that we can remotely earn income from the only thing in 0.0 worth owning speaks massive volumes about the state of 0.0. You people complain about the state of faction warfare, its not just your part of the game, its the game as a whole thats suffering right now.

We live where we live because its worth no more or less than any other part of EVE right now.

And as for supers...

We didn't join any power bloc to get ours, regardless of what you've read. We bought them with money.


The first ones were the hardest admittedly, it took the efforts of the entire alliance and they were obtained before my time, but I still know the pains and troubles they went through. It took donations from the entire alliance, and time, lots of time, to get our first Titan.

My personal supercaps were obtained through me spending 3 months locked in a wormhole with 14 other members of snigg doing my best carebear impression.

Then I bought one.


You don't need to build supercaps, in fact its probably the worst possible way to get hold of them.


Realistically the only thing stopping any person in EVE from getting a supercarrier or titan is themselves, and how much effort they're willing to devote to the task.

Every member of PL who owns one put out their own herculean effort to get one, and now suddenly that makes us the bad guy, meanwhile there is absolutely nothing stopping anybody else from going through the exact same thing that any of our members went through (and continue to go through) to get theirs.


The fact that you choose not to do it shouldn't be held against us in anyway, and the fact that people are lazy shouldn't be reason to nerf people who aren't lazy's game play.

I think i have a idea with help. From a amarr pilot in local lol. Sabotage :)

If we make the Plex's as mini incursion type things (were u would need a certain amount of pilots per each size)
Make sure the rats are smart like the incursion rats.
U split the LP the same as incisions. So if 2 fleets are in one plex only the most helpful fleet gets reward.


Everyone fights for the plex's
Each side would be alot more active to get the LP
Keep the gates how they are to filter ship types.


EASY FIX
We have something to fight for
Alot of pilots would join and be FORCED to fight for there isk.
Good start
EASY FIX

Soundwave mail me ur ideas

@Grath (Re: Supers); The PL Hercules must be a scrawny little thing if amassing 20B justifies using the word "Herculean" .. just sayin'

That one line is true for all areas of Eve .. we need reasons to fight and new ways (ie. move away from blob content) to fight more than anything.

this does not happen now?

I am frankly not interested in preserving FW mission runners, miners, and haulers - and they can't run those missions with an alt. If they could then that is another issue all together as it breaks the risk to reward system. Are you telling me that you want more of these mission runners and the like to join FW for the sole purpose of making money? If anything, that is exactly what should end. LP and ISK should be rewarded for PvP in FW - not an upgrade to motsu level 4s.

Or am I missing your point.

The only thing the prevention of FW members entering enemy space has done is to give a safe haven for people who exploit this system. I should be able to fly into any high sec space an hunt down enemy targets - to not be able to do that limits the war an further segregates between those who are in and not in FW and furthermore contributes to the general 'high sec is safe sec' attitude that is most undesirable.

I guess thats the point - people will use alts anyway, they do now in FW already. And the people who are going to leave because they are basically involved in a war and don't want that to contribute to their loss' are perhaps in it not for the PvP but for the profit of running FW missions. I suppose I would rather FW became smaller and more PvP oriented, then become another mission category to just milk for profit.

Personally I love the fact that Pandemic Legion are basing out of Amamake, but then again, I like a challenge.

• I kill all the navy ships in complexes - good for tags too.
• I won't dock at a station in enemy occupied space
• I am proud of my negative status to the Amarr Empire - the scum!

I am a role player at heart and think the background story actually has a place in EVE. It's why I participate in FW.

NPC's aren't third parties, they're our allies, they're the regular forces to our irregular. It's their fight that we are participating in.

One issue that doesn't seem to have been raised yet is that NPC's in missions are hostile to all, including their allied militia. If it's the job of the militia to stop the enemy from being able to fulfil their missions, and the mechanics are made available to do so, then the faction navy should not be aggressive to their allied militia. In order to penalise abuse by using an alt in the opposing milita to complete your mission there needs to be a severe standings penalty so that they can't abuse it too frequently.

Of course since I'm a proponent of removing missions and rewarding plexing with LP/ISK instead, then this problem would be removed too.

I think most people are using the term "bored" more loosely than you think. I personally mean bored in that, like you said, there isn't incentive to hang around in 0.0 Whatever fun and isk were to be made out there has been figured out, repeated over and over again, and than nerfed to the point of killing any reason to be there, when you could be living and fighting in low or highsec and making the same amount of money, meanwhile having a greater number of targets at your disposal.

Which is precisely what I would do if i were your alliance leaders. I'd assess the situation, and all things being equal in terms of economic resources, I'd choose to hang out where the activity was. And frankly, for as much as Faction Warfare is trolled on for being "dead", there is more activity in and around Amamake than in most large nullsec expanses, save for the hotspots like Delve.

I certainly hope you're not bored, no one should be out fighting or mining or ganking or hot dropping or any of that if they're not having fun. Lest we all forget this is a game, we're all here for the lulz. In particular, me and my corpmates have taken this as an opportunity to fight the same alliance that wins Tournaments - honing our skills against what are supposedly some of the best small-gang warfare pilots in the game.

I can't speak for other militia pilots, but my purpose in starting this thread was not in any way to present the FW crisis as somehow superior in significance over the nullsec crisis, I WANT you to have your sanctums, moons, and sov battles working in tip top shape, so that you guys get a chance to spread out again and seize that slice of New Eden for yourself again. Faction Warfare is served just as equally by CCP giving attention to the stale nature of 0.0 gameplay, so that each group of players gets a chance to have the kind of fights they enjoy, in the environment they like to have them. This need for nullsec attention has been a common theme of my posts outside this thread.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with owning and using Supercarriers, its just that different player groups have fun different ways. Some like cap battles, others like cruiser gangs, the need to cater to varied player tastes is the whole reason for having differences between hi, low, and nullsec, along with the reason for having wormholes. This thread is just trying to get the FW mechanics in particular back to a point where militia players can enjoy themselves at the scale of warfare we like to enjoy. You're right, we could all train supercaps, but thats not really our idea of a good time.

I don't care if supers stay in lowsec as long as plexes are fixed and younger players who want to learn pvp have opportunities to fight where your supercaps cant get at them. The three-tiered security status for systems was created for a reason, and is a fundamental element of Eve's game design. I think supercap battles are great when they're fighting other supercaps. I think supercap battles are lame when they're happening against battlecruiser gangs, and dampening the amount of fleeting and fighting that is occuring in what used to be a more active region. It shouldn't be difficult to understand why supercaps in and around FW are a fun-killer.

It's no different than saying that bubbles and bombs and other stuff like that are useful for large fleet battles, but less fun for those who enjoy smaller gang warfare, and thus providing them with lowsec where they can travel and get into fights a bit more freely without being hampered by some of those more powerful PvP tools.

Saying "supers are here, deal with it, stop crying cause we already had our doomsdays taken away" just kinda comes off like you think that all of eve should be nullsec, and that we're all somehow being coddled for wanting to have gameplay zones like lowsec in EvE that encourage smaller scale warfare and freelance piracy.

It may not have been what you meant, but that's how it sounds is all.